Recruits

[MemphisCanes]

Well seeing as how pastier is doing jack $hit with consecutive top 5 classes and cal is making it to elite 8 and final fours I would say the consensus is partner is under achieving big time an that's not even a debate. Tennessee is about at the point record wise exactly where everyone thought they would be, and playing better than most thought. Im pretty sure what, 9-7 is not what memphis fans had in mind.

As far as the growin thing give it a rest. I actually read an article on stokes and he was talking about his last trip to the doctor they told him there is a good chance of him growing a couple inches in the next year or so.

First, Pastner had a good class in 2010, he's not had anything close to "consecutive top 5 classes" however.

Second, you're saying that Pastner is underachieving because he's not doing what Calipari does? Cal makes 4 mill per year because he's one of the best "coaches" out there. A comparison betwen Pastner, who's coached for 2.5 years and Cal, who's coached for 25.

Third, Memphis is 12-5 this season, with no losses to a team outside of the top 25. Not sure where 9-7 came from. Memphis was overrated in most pre-season polls but Pastner is doing just fine at the moment.

Fourth, I haven't said a word about Stokes in this thread, nor has anyone else I don't think. What are you talking about?

 

[MemphisCanes]

Not hating on Memphis but with all the talent, one can speculate I guess.

I got it backwards I guess. I figured JW3 to Kentucky but it's impossible to see who Kentucky goes after because it's all about who declares. I've read a few things showing Roy Williams has a lot of interest in Nick King too. Like I said, would be a miracle if we could land this kid but I want him more than any other.

King appears to be the Bell Cow of the Memphis area 2013 class. I expect the usual suspects (UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas, Florida, UT) to make a run at him.

JW3 seems overshadowed at this point. Concerns of work-ethic have arisen.

Austin Nichols (3rd in Memphis for 2013) is most likely Duke or Florida bound.

 

[Shaun1985]

King appears to be the Bell Cow of the Memphis area 2013 class. I expect the usual suspects (UK, UNC, Duke, Kansas, Florida, UT) to make a run at him.

JW3 seems overshadowed at this point. Concerns of work-ethic have arisen.

Austin Nichols (3rd in Memphis for 2013) is most likely Duke or Florida bound.

Taking off the memphis glasses and being honest, do you think Stokes plays any part in Kings recruitment? They were on the same AAU team so I'm wondering if that matters or if it's good for us / doesn't matter sort of thing.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

First, Pastner had a good class in 2010, he's not had anything close to "consecutive top 5 classes" however.

Second, you're saying that Pastner is underachieving because he's not doing what Calipari does? Cal makes 4 mill per year because he's one of the best "coaches" out there. A comparison betwen Pastner, who's coached for 2.5 years and Cal, who's coached for 25.

Third, Memphis is 12-5 this season, with no losses to a team outside of the top 25. Not sure where 9-7 came from. Memphis was overrated in most pre-season polls but Pastner is doing just fine at the moment.

Fourth, I haven't said a word about Stokes in this thread, nor has anyone else I don't think. What are you talking about?

you are correct about the classes i seemed to remember '11 being a good class but looking at it all he brought in was thomas, im assuming they didnt have the scholly's, after signing 7 the year before. still, signing a guy like thomas to go with the previous #2 class in the country which was overshadowed because of UK, it was an amazing class he brought in and has done nothing with. my comparison was more along the lines of cal is atleast gong to the ncaa tourney with his talent, even though he too is underachieving, pastner cant even make it into the ncaa tourney with the classes he is bringing in. i dont know where i saw 9-7 i saw something the other day and apparently that was wrong, it is 12-5 so not nearly as bad. still though once again, yes their losses dont look bad but who did they beat? if your best win is tennessee that is saying something. pastner wont be fired this year and unless a debacle next year he'll be fine, but he has another top 20 class coming in next year if we arent talking about atleast 1 ncaa tourney run you dont think his seat will be hot?

as far as stokes you made a reference to ZJC about a kid supposedly growing a little more and he would love him. this was in reference to the arguement that the 2 of you had about stokes growing a couple more inches before he leaves here.

 

[MemphisCanes]

ZJC just seems pre-occupied with kids having growth spurts is all. He'd be all over Lindsey.

Pastner has already been to the NCAAs, last season. Pastner is a victim of his own success when it comes to recruiting. If he had signed classes of three stars but was still having the same success at Memphis as he is having now, people would be saying "he's doing a good (not great) job". The end result is the same, it's just the public perception from the overblown preseason rankings.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

ZJC just seems pre-occupied with kids having growth spurts is all. He'd be all over Lindsey.

Pastner has already been to the NCAAs, last season. Pastner is a victim of his own success when it comes to recruiting. If he had signed classes of three stars but was still having the same success at Memphis as he is having now, people would be saying "he's doing a good (not great) job". The end result is the same, it's just the public perception from the overblown preseason rankings.

i understand where he comes from with the growth thing with stokes though. we are all excited about this guy as we dont get players like this very often as you do, the thought of him growing and being a top 10 pick means everything to this program and fan basethats all.

another thing that pastner is a victim of is that he had to follow a guy named cal, who had that fan base's expectations sky high year in and year out. that never helps out who replaces him.

 

[zjcvols]

ZJC just seems pre-occupied with kids having growth spurts is all. He'd be all over Lindsey.

Pastner has already been to the NCAAs, last season. Pastner is a victim of his own success when it comes to recruiting. If he had signed classes of three stars but was still having the same success at Memphis as he is having now, people would be saying "he's doing a good (not great) job". The end result is the same, it's just the public perception from the overblown preseason rankings.

Because the only thing keeping Jarnell from being a top 5 pick is his height. Which means he's 6'11 (which isn't an impossible chance of happening at least growing a little bit more), then he becomes a top five pick, which is not only awesome for Jarnell, it does incredible wonders for Tennessee since I don't believe we have ever had a top five pick.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Taking off the memphis glasses and being honest, do you think Stokes plays any part in Kings recruitment? They were on the same AAU team so I'm wondering if that matters or if it's good for us / doesn't matter sort of thing.

Honestly, no. I don't think that they were that close (I never saw them holler at each other on twitter, etc.), which is not to say that UT does't have a chance at bagging King. Stokes and King both played for Memphis YOMCA, but King was on the U16 team so I'm not sure they actually played together.

 

[zjcvols]

i understand where he comes from with the growth thing with stokes though. we are all excited about this guy as we dont get players like this very often as you do, the thought of him growing and being a top 10 pick means everything to this program and fan basethats all.

another thing that pastner is a victim of is that he had to follow a guy named cal, who had that fan base's expectations sky high year in and year out. that never helps out who replaces him.

Exactly. I'm pretty sure Tennessee has never had a top five pick. Jarnell being a top five would do wonders for recruiting.

Edit: I take that back. Tom Boerwinkle was a top five pick (#4 to Chicago) in 1968.

Okay, so Jarnell would be UT's first top five pick since the LBJ administration.

 

[orangelo]

LOL, you'd think Pastner was the one who's 8-9 right now.

But seriously, Cal and Pastner are both pushing hard for Nick King right now. He wants to stay close to home but I'd be surprised if he doesn't fall to UK, all things considered.

I haven't heard much about JW3 recently, but from some reports, UT has a decent shot at landing him.

Hubbs is an interesting case. Florida, UT and Memphis are in on him and people around Dyer Co. HS say he's highest on the Tigers. I'm wondering if he'll actually be a high-major talent at the end of next season. If he is, Memphis will offer.

Another to keep your eyes on in 2013 is Jajuan Johnson from Southwind. 6'4" swing man will most likely climb in the rankings before his senior year.

Lindsey is going to be interesting as well. It's early, but he seems like a protypical Kevin Stallings recruit to me. ZJCvols would be licking his chops over this one though, I heard he's got big feet and is expected to grow another half-foot or so before he's in college.

Hubbs is the 39th ranked player in the country according to rivals and already has an offer from U of M. He is a high major talent. He just doesn't get the exposure the others get because he is from rural West Tennessee. I have seen him play and at this point in his career IMHO is a better player than Casey Prather which was considered an elite talent.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Exactly. I'm pretty sure Tennessee has never had a top five pick. Jarnell being a top five would do wonders for recruiting.

the impact that it would have on the program is not something that can really even be put in words. the fact the in ccm first he he gets him, and then 2nd year puts him in the pro's that will look great to the recruits. he already has a connetion with recruits that a lot of these coaches just cant make because of where he is from and been through. who he has been able to be in on recruiting without proving ANYTHING at ut is amazing, if he can start proving he can put players in the NBA and can win games then i would expect more top level talent to come play for him.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Exactly. I'm pretty sure Tennessee has never had a top five pick. Jarnell being a top five would do wonders for recruiting.

Edit: I take that back. Tom Boerwinkle was a top five pick (#4 to Chicago) in 1968.

Okay, so Jarnell would be UT's first top five pick since the LBJ administration.

yea we can just stick with never had a top 5 pick i think the majority of VN has no idea who that is.

*kind of funny he was 7 ft and we are talking about a guy if he grown to 6'11" he will be a top 5 pick, kind of ironic.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Because the only thing keeping Jarnell from being a top 5 pick is his height. Which means he's 6'11 (which isn't an impossible chance of happening at least growing a little bit more), then he becomes a top five pick, which is not only awesome for Jarnell, it does incredible wonders for Tennessee since I don't believe we have ever had a top five pick.

The guy has played like 11 minutes of D1 ball. Its way too early to say this or that has to happen for the kid to be a top 5 pick. The kid will be fine no matter what height he is.

If Jarnell stays 6'8" (which he appeared to be on TV Saturday) and around 250 (He's probably still 15 lbs overweight right now), there's nothing keeping him from being a top 5 pick.

Just look at Derrick Williams last year (6'8" 240, 2nd overall pick). Stokes understands he neeeds to expand his outside game for the next level.

 

[MemphisCanes]

Hubbs is the 39th ranked player in the country according to rivals and already has an offer from U of M. He is a high major talent. He just doesn't get the exposure the others get because he is from rural West Tennessee. I have seen him play and at this point in his career IMHO is a better player than Casey Prather which was considered an elite talent.

I've heard differing reports on this. Rivals/Scout is hardly ever right when it comes to offers.

I think he is a wait and see prospect for a lot of programs.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

The guy has played like 11 minutes of D1 ball. Its way too early to say this or that has to happen for the kid to be a top 5 pick. The kid will be fine no matter what height he is.

If Jarnell stays 6'8" (which he appeared to be on TV Saturday) and around 250 (He's probably still 15 lbs overweight right now), there's nothing keeping him from being a top 5 pick.

Just look at Derrick Williams last year (6'8" 240, 2nd overall pick). Stokes understands he neeeds to expand his outside game for the next level.

derrick williams is a freak athletically, which is something that stokes is not. stokes is a bruiser who is strong as an ox and can out muscle most people as a freshman. he does need to improve the outside game no matter if he growns or not because that will make him a better all around player,but he is not the body or athete of williams. the body i would compare him to right now if we are making comparisons is kevin love, although he probably is a little more athletic than love.

 

[zjcvols]

derrick williams is a freak athletically, which is something that stokes is not. stokes is a bruiser who is strong as an ox and can out muscle most people as a freshman. he does need to improve the outside game no matter if he growns or not because that will make him a better all around player,but he is not the body or athete of williams. the body i would compare him to right now if we are making comparisons is kevin love, although he probably is a little more athletic than love.

This. Williams can also play the 3 at the NBA level. I don't know if Jarnell can.

 

[MemphisCanes]

derrick williams is a freak athletically, which is something that stokes is not. stokes is a bruiser who is strong as an ox and can out muscle most people as a freshman. he does need to improve the outside game no matter if he growns or not because that will make him a better all around player,but he is not the body or athete of williams. the body i would compare him to right now if we are making comparisons is kevin love, although he probably is a little more athletic than love.

Stokes is pretty athletic, especially when he's back down to 250 or so. Williams definitely is the better athlete, but I don't think the difference is as vast as you think. Williams can play the 3/4 in the league, Stokes is pretty much just a 4 at this point, but you guys make it sound like he has no shot unless he shoots up to 6'11".

 

[bleedingTNorange]

This. Williams can also play the 3 at the NBA level. I don't know if Jarnell can.

if jarnell doesnt grow another inch and is 6' 8" right now he may have to, so definitely reason to work on the outside shot. i e'xpect jarnell to be 6' 10" at least when drafted i dont th ink the kid who is barily 18, and his doctors have told him i just think thats where he ends up. if he doesnt 6' 9" is still fine to play pf with the body that he has, i really honestly think that he could be a kevin love type player in the nba. he is very strong with the ball, and makes up for not being a freak athlete with being strong and crafty at the same time, and having a very high basketball IQ.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Stokes is pretty athletic, especially when he's back down to 250 or so. Williams definitely is the better athlete, but I don't think the difference is as vast as you think. Williams can play the 3/4 in the league, Stokes is pretty much just a 4 at this point, but you guys make it sound like he has no shot unless he shoots up to 6'11".

i dont expect to see stokes under 260 again, in fact going in to next year 270 is probably about right. he is going to gain muscle mass in the program that he is in and muscle will add weight while toning him. its not that jarnell cant play in the league at 6'8" what we are saying is that with his body he has been given he is best suited for PF. so if he could grow a couple inches he can excel at that position, hard for someone 6'8" to dominate at the PF position.

and honestly i really dont the williams and stokes athete comparison is close. williams is a freak athletically and for his size is the closest athlete to lebron in the game at this point.

 

[MemphisCanes]

if jarnell doesnt grow another inch and is 6' 8" right now he may have to, so definitely reason to work on the outside shot. i e'xpect jarnell to be 6' 10" at least when drafted i dont th ink the kid who is barily 18, and his doctors have told him i just think thats where he ends up. if he doesnt 6' 9" is still fine to play pf with the body that he has, i really honestly think that he could be a kevin love type player in the nba. he is very strong with the ball, and makes up for not being a freak athlete with being strong and crafty at the same time, and having a very high basketball IQ.

THIS is what I don't get about you guys. Why do you EXPECT the kid to grow 2-3 more inches? In all my years of being a basketball fan, I've never heard another fan base do this.

If the kid grows more, that's gravy, but to "expect" the kid to grow more just seems strange and dismissive of Stokes. Almost like you'll be disappointed if the kid stays 6'8".

 

[MemphisCanes]

i dont expect to see stokes under 260 again, in fact going in to next year 270 is probably about right. he is going to gain muscle mass in the program that he is in and muscle will add weight while toning him. its not that jarnell cant play in the league at 6'8" what we are saying is that with his body he has been given he is best suited for PF. so if he could grow a couple inches he can excel at that position, hard for someone 6'8" to dominate at the PF position.

and honestly i really dont the williams and stokes athete comparison is close. williams is a freak athletically and for his size is the closest athlete to lebron in the game at this point.

Jarnell is, what, 3 years younger than Williams? Go back and watch clips from Williams' senior year in HS and Stokes' AAU clips. Williams has more explosiveness, but the differences are not huge.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

THIS is what I don't get about you guys. Why do you EXPECT the kid to grow 2-3 more inches? In all my years of being a basketball fan, I've never heard another fan base do this.

If the kid grows more, that's gravy, but to "expect" the kid to grow more just seems strange and dismissive of Stokes. Almost like you'll be disappointed if the kid stays 6'8".

do you expect your players to improve that come into memphis or stay the same? there is nothing wrong with expectations. no we will not be dissapointed because he has the work ethic to still be a hell of a player here. the reason that i expect it(and maybe expect is the wrong word, maybe i think) he is going to grow is...1. he wears a size 20 shoe most people with those big of feet are taller than he is but were his height at age 17 2. HIS DOCTORS HAVE TOLD HIM HE IS NOT DONE GROWING

 

[MemphisCanes]

Man, 270 for Stokes is WAY too heavy right now. Even Kevin Love is 10 lbs lighter than that and is 2 inches taller.

Stokes needs to be around 250. He looked out of shape on Saturday (which is actually a testament to how good he is). Needs to get back down to playing weight and you'll see how explosive he can be.

 

[zjcvols]

THIS is what I don't get about you guys. Why do you EXPECT the kid to grow 2-3 more inches? In all my years of being a basketball fan, I've never heard another fan base do this.

If the kid grows more, that's gravy, but to "expect" the kid to grow more just seems strange and dismissive of Stokes. Almost like you'll be disappointed if the kid stays 6'8".

We don't expect. We are just saying there's a decent chance.

 

[MemphisCanes]

do you expect your players to improve that come into memphis or stay the same? there is nothing wrong with expectations. no we will not be dissapointed because he has the work ethic to still be a hell of a player here. the reason that i expect it(and maybe expect is the wrong word, maybe i think) he is going to grow is...1. he wears a size 20 shoe most people with those big of feet are taller than he is but were his height at age 17 2. HIS DOCTORS HAVE TOLD HIM HE IS NOT DONE GROWING

I expect Memphis players to get better at their fundamentals, get in better shape, gain/lose weight as necessary, but never to get taller. I've never come across a fanbase banking on a kid growing 3 more inches like you guys, it's befuddling.

He may grow, and if he does, that's a windfall. But I can't see how anyone expects it.