Reid Suggests Romney Paid No Taxes for 10 Years

[BigPapaVol]

Way to box out the result. If Romney wins, people saw through it. If he loses, they're dumb.

Ever occur to you that you might be wrong ?

He didn't even begin to say that. He said it economy an issue is dumb, meaning those pushing it are idiots, including you.

 

[BeecherVol]

That's the way the GOP is trying to mischaracterize it. Classic straw man. Claim the criticism is something you can defend, when of course its about something else.

The proof is that we already know Romney makes tens of millions a year.

The issue is his tax rate. No matter how much you try to make it about something else.

The tax rate is the issue because he makes 10s of millions a year and some politicians want a bigger piece of that to distribute to save their seat in government. It maybe hard to accept for some, but its not hard to see.

 

[zidanefan]

Way to box out the result. If Romney wins, people saw through it. If he loses, they're dumb.

Ever occur to you that you might be wrong ?

Way to fail to respond to pj's last point. Also, he wasn't calling you dumb, per se...

 

[lawgator1]

The tax rate is the issue because he makes 10s of millions a year and some politicians want a bigger piece of that to distribute to save their seat in government. It maybe hard to accept for some, but its not hard to see.

That is the debate we should be having, on the grand scale anyway. I agree with you there.

I just happen to think that its obvious that Romney knows that his tax returns are going to frame that debate in a way that is so disfavorable to him that it is worth allowing the critics to speculate on what could be so bad in them as to cause him to do this.

If it were a Dem candidate not releasing them, the GOP would be making the same charge.

 

[politicsvol]

He is a multimillionaire CEO who laid a bunch of people off and shipped jobs overseas. Those are facts.

Those are facts? He bought a bunch of strugling companies that were going bankrupt without him. He didn't exactly buy apple and decide to fire everyone and move operations to dubai.

 

[BigPapaVol]

That is the debate we should be having, on the grand scale anyway. I agree with you there.

I just happen to think that its obvious that Romney knows that his tax returns are going to frame that debate in a way that is so disfavorable to him that it is worth allowing the critics to speculate on what could be so bad in them as to cause him to do this.

If it were a Dem candidate not releasing them, the GOP would be making the same charge.

There is no victory in the tax form release. None whatsoever. He has made the right call there. Your inability to fathom his reasoning doesn't matter, as your ability to fathom things financial is limited, and that's being kind.

Republicans don't care what Dems make, unless they're making some claim of being a man of the people.

 

[politicsvol]

We should target the code.

Problem is, Romney has given every indication he will lower taxes on the wealthy.

Yet what is obama doing? Talking soley about marginal tax rates. Romney's tax rate will go up by .2% if obama raises marginal tax rates.

So you agree with obama that not raising taxes is the same as lowering them for the wealthy. Nice.

 

[hog88]

Yes, but he symbolizes the problem in the tax code. Moreover, his refusal to disclose demonstrates that he knows it is not palatable to the voters.

It's legal. But it's wrong. And he knows it.

Please explain?? Is this what you tell your clients? "What you did is legal but since it's wrong in my view we are going to plead guilty"???

Have you made partner yet?

 

[BigPapaVol]

Those are facts? He bought a bunch of strugling companies that were going bankrupt without him. He didn't exactly buy apple and decide to fire everyone and move operations to dubai.

neither is factual. The guy was at the helm of a company buying portfolio companies for any number of reasons. Those portfolio companies are operated independently of the equity holders. Bain typically has seats on the board and can grow those to control positions via provisions in the purchase agreement(s). Pretending that Romney had some hand in the decision making for most of these companies is silly.

 

[hog88]

neither is factual. The guy was at the helm of a company buying portfolio companies for any number of reasons. Those portfolio companies are operated independently of the equity holders. Bain typically has seats on the board and can grow those to control positions via provisions in the purchase agreement(s). Pretending that Romney had some hand in the decision making for most of these companies is silly.

BPV there you go again confusing good rhetoric with facts!!

 

[politicsvol]

neither is factual. The guy was at the helm of a company buying portfolio companies for any number of reasons. Those portfolio companies are operated independently of the equity holders. Bain typically has seats on the board and can grow those to control positions via provisions in the purchase agreement(s). Pretending that Romney had some hand in the decision making for most of these companies is silly.

I was mostly refering to the companies the Obama administration was parading in front of the cameras. Obviously Staples and companies like that didn't need massive reorganization, just capital.

 

[lawgator1]

There is no victory in the tax form release. None whatsoever. He has made the right call there. Your inability to fathom his reasoning doesn't matter, as your ability to fathom things financial is limited, and that's being kind.

Republicans don't care what Dems make, unless they're making some claim of being a man of the people.

I understand his reasoning. It is thus:

A) Not releasing my tax returns is going to cost something in terms of allowing my opponents (and even some of my supporters) to raise questions about what is in them, and I calculate it will cost me "X" votes.

B) Releasing the returns will cost me "Y" votes because of what is in them.

C) Y > X.


Therefore, he doesn't release them. Source: George Will.

 

[BeecherVol]

That is the debate we should be having, on the grand scale anyway. I agree with you there.

I just happen to think that its obvious that Romney knows that his tax returns are going to frame that debate in a way that is so disfavorable to him that it is worth allowing the critics to speculate on what could be so bad in them as to cause him to do this.

If it were a Dem candidate not releasing them, the GOP would be making the same charge.

The problem I have with the debate is hypocrites on the left screaming about how he works the system (legally to our knowledge) when they are doing the same thing.

You wouldn't have to look very far to find politicians and money backers on the left using every tax deduction/loophole that Romney is using. If it is the epidemic they make it to be, shut up and put your money where your mouth is.

The beginning of the debate should start with a revised budget amendment that includes cuts. Im not in favor of giving them more money from any class at this point.

 

[politicsvol]

What? Are you really arguing Obama has tax accountants working for him too? You must be a racist.

 

[volinbham]

I understand his reasoning. It is thus:

A) Not releasing my tax returns is going to cost something in terms of allowing my opponents (and even some of my supporters) to raise questions about what is in them, and I calculate it will cost me "X" votes.

B) Releasing the returns will cost me "Y" votes because of what is in them.

C) Y > X.


Therefore, he doesn't release them. Source: George Will.

How is that any different than Obama withholding his transcripts or him doing an executive order version of the Dream Act or any action he takes?

 

[lawgator1]

The problem I have with the debate is hypocrites on the left screaming about how he works the system (legally to our knowledge) when they are doing the same thing.

You wouldn't have to look very far to find politicians and money backers on the left using every tax deduction/loophole that Romney is using. If it is the epidemic they make it to be, shut up and put your money where your mouth is.

The beginning of the debate should start with a revised budget amendment that includes cuts. Im not in favor of giving them more money from any class at this point.

I don't disagree with any of that. I do think that the spending cuts should be real, i.e. in the trillions and incorporating entitlements and defense, and accompanied by increased revenues.

I'd like to see the capital gains tax either increased or reformed in its application to capture more revenue.

 

[BeecherVol]

I understand his reasoning. It is thus:

A) Not releasing my tax returns is going to cost something in terms of allowing my opponents (and even some of my supporters) to raise questions about what is in them, and I calculate it will cost me "X" votes.

B) Releasing the returns will cost me "Y" votes because of what is in them.

C) Y > X.


Therefore, he doesn't release them. Source: George Will.

Short of him being on the wrong side of the IRS (which I highly doubt would make it through an election considering he is being blamed for a death) There is no way you nor his campaign would know that Y > X.

 

[lawgator1]

How is that any different than Obama withholding his transcripts or him doing an executive order version of the Dream Act or any action he takes?

Obama isn't claiming that you should vote for him because of the grades he got in college 30 years ago whereas Romney is touting his personal financial success in the last 10-15 years as THE reason you should vote for him. That would be one rather enormous difference.

 

[volinbham]

I'd like to see the capital gains tax either increased or reformed in its application to capture more revenue.

So if it could be shown that raising cap gains tax will reduce total revenue you'd be against it? Historically, the record is pretty strong on this.

 

[utvolpj]

amazing this is such an issue when the Obama admin appointed multiple tax cheats to high positions (or at least tried to). This included a Treasury Sec who couldn't figure out TurboTax. If only they had put the same effort into those people as they have Romney

 

[politicsvol]

I don't disagree with any of that. I do think that the spending cuts should be real, i.e. in the trillions and incorporating entitlements and defense, and accompanied by increased revenues.

I'd like to see the capital gains tax either increased or reformed in its application to capture more revenue.

So are Romney's taxes low because capital gains rates are too low or are they too low because he's exploiting tax loopholes?

 

[volinbham]

Obama isn't claiming that you should vote for him because of the grades he got in college 30 years ago whereas Romney is touting his personal financial success in the last 10-15 years as THE reason you should vote for him. That would be one rather enormous difference.

Well it's not his personal financial success it is his business success. The amount he paid in taxes is at best tangentally related to his business acumen.

Likewise, Obama's supporters tout his intelligence so some direct evidence would be as equally relevant (or irrelevant).

The larger point is that both (all) candidates make the calculations you propose yet it only seems to matter to you if the one you don't like does it.

 

[politicsvol]

Obama isn't claiming that you should vote for him because of the grades he got in college 30 years ago whereas Romney is touting his personal financial success in the last 10-15 years as THE reason you should vote for him. That would be one rather enormous difference.

Is there really any debate that Romney made a crapload of money? What does his tax rate have to do with his financial success?

 

[volinbham]

amazing this is such an issue when the Obama admin appointed multiple tax cheats to high positions (or at least tried to). This included a Treasury Sec who couldn't figure out TurboTax. If only they had put the same effort into those people as they have Romney

only matters for political opponents - duh

 

[lawgator1]

So if it could be shown that raising cap gains tax will reduce total revenue you'd be against it? Historically, the record is pretty strong on this.

I'd like to see that record for the last 20 years. My belief is that the dynamic has changed on that. But I am certainly open to being convinced otherwise.