Religious debate (split from main board)

#1,801
#1,801
I prefer the story of the prodigal son as told by JC himself. In short, the youngest son decides he wants the inheritance from his father now rather than waiting till his death. He leaves home, loses everything, and then decides to return home... but figures he will return only as a worker for his father because he must earn back what he has lost. His father has none of it, but instead clothes him, throws him a feast, and graciously welcomes him back into the family.

Many think this is where the story ends, but then you also must consider the eldest son. He also wants the inheritance from his father, and states that he has always obeyed his father and done everything that he was asked to do. And yet... he is now the one that is left sitting outside while the family is feasting.

Righteousness, when done for the wrong reasons, can indeed become a stumbling block. As many have said... God knows our hearts.
 
#1,802
#1,802
IBlvNTmWrk said:
I prefer the story of the prodigal son as told by JC himself. In short, the youngest son decides he wants the inheritance from his father now rather than waiting till his death. He leaves home, loses everything, and then decides to return home... but figures he will return only as a worker for his father because he must earn back what he has lost. His father has none of it, but instead clothes him, throws him a feast, and graciously welcomes him back into the family.

Many think this is where the story ends, but then you also must consider the eldest son. He also wants the inheritance from his father, and states that he has always obeyed his father and done everything that he was asked to do. And yet... he is now the one that is left sitting outside while the family is feasting.

Righteousness, when done for the wrong reasons, can indeed become a stumbling block. As many have said... God knows our hearts.
Click to expand...

+1

:hi:
 
#1,804
#1,804
OE, just want to get a better understanding on what you believe. John the baptist was baptizing people to prepare for Christ's baptism, and Christ was baptized for all of us?
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#1,805
#1,805
Christ is the sacrifice..... Christ broke the emnity between God and man....... Christ is every thing. Nothing I do, or that you do will ever take the place of Christ as the sacrifice. Your actions speak of your love for Christ, nothing more and nothing else.

:)

http://bible.cc/ephesians/2-9.htm


checkmate.jpg
 
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#1,808
#1,808
Mark 1 (King James Version)
4. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.

8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

I believe John the Baptist was a part of fulfilling the Old Testament and water baptism was part of repentance during his time.

Jesus was the final piece in fulfilling the Old Testament.

Mark 1: 14-15

14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.


I believe that when we are saved , we are baptized with the Holy Ghost and we are born into the Kingdom of God.
We are baptized into the church by water baptism in a public showing of obedience by a new follower of Jesus.
 
#1,809
#1,809
Vols378 said:
Mark 1 (King James Version)
4. John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.

7 And preached, saying, There cometh one mightier than I after me, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to stoop down and unloose.

8 I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.

I believe John the Baptist was a part of fulfilling the Old Testament and water baptism was part of repentance during his time.

Jesus was the final piece in fulfilling the Old Testament.

Mark 1: 14-15

14Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God,

15And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.


I believe that when we are saved , we are baptized with the Holy Ghost and we are born into the Kingdom of God.
We are baptized into the church by water baptism in a public showing of obedience by a new follower of Jesus.
Click to expand...

I am not advocating this for everyone or saying that my idea of belief or Christianity is better than anyone elses by any means but I do not put much faith in churches. Part of this is due to my own experiences growing up and as an adult and partly due to my beliefs in what a true relationship with God actually means.

In my view baptism is a symbolic gesture steeped in tradition. The Essenes had a custom very similar to baptism but differed in that it was a daily cleansing ritual. I just don't view baptism as a necessity for salvation, just a symbolic gesture of your intentions. This is just my understanding, I have no desire to get into an exchange back and forth on the issue, just giving you my beliefs and understanding.
 
#1,811
#1,811
KB5252 said:
I am not advocating this for everyone or saying that my idea of belief or Christianity is better than anyone elses by any means but I do not put much faith in churches. Part of this is due to my own experiences growing up and as an adult and partly due to my beliefs in what a true relationship with God actually means.

In my view baptism is a symbolic gesture steeped in tradition. The Essenes had a custom very similar to baptism but differed in that it was a daily cleansing ritual. I just don't view baptism as a necessity for salvation, just a symbolic gesture of your intentions. This is just my understanding, I have no desire to get into an exchange back and forth on the issue, just giving you my beliefs and understanding.
Click to expand...

*Coughs*

Covenant

*Coughs*

No matter now much people want a part of the salvation process........ it is all Jesus'.

:)
 
#1,813
#1,813
OrangeEmpire said:
Sure I did, you have no desire to listen.

:)

Baptism = Covenant To say other wise is boastful.

CheckmateD.jpg
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I have complete desire to listen. (For some reason, I'm having a hard time with the irony in you saying I'm boastful. Not sure why)

I asked did Jesus get baptized for all of us? You didn't answer. You are confusing a lot of stuff here. I've never said I had control of my salvation. I'll obtain that by the grace of God. I'm trying to understand your train of thought.

Believing is an act. I can hear the gospel and choose not to believe. Choosing to believe is taking my salvation in my own hands. There is no other way to look at it
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#1,814
#1,814
Why would Jesus be baptized for all of us?

If this were true what about the poor people that went before him.

You are confusing a covenant picture with the salvation process.

Of course you believe you have control of your salvation, you believe baptism is an essential part of the process.

Believing in Jesus for salvation and believing in baptism for salvation is a whole seperate issue.
 
#1,815
#1,815
ridethelightening said:
I have complete desire to listen. (For some reason, I'm having a hard time with the irony in you saying I'm boastful. Not sure why)

I asked did Jesus get baptized for all of us? You didn't answer. You are confusing a lot of stuff here. I've never said I had control of my salvation. I'll obtain that by the grace of God. I'm trying to understand your train of thought.

Believing is an act. I can hear the gospel and choose not to believe. Choosing to believe is taking my salvation in my own hands. There is no other way to look at it
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Click to expand...

Believing is an act of faith, which is not to be confused with actions and/or works. Faith is not something we do in order to "earn" grace, but something we have in order to "receive" grace. I won't answer for OE, but I believe JC died for all of our sins and His sacrifice is what provided us with the path to, and gift of, salvation.

I also agree with KB5252 and am not really interested in continuing to debate this subject... although I do find it very interesting and appreciate everyone's viewpoints.
 
#1,818
#1,818
Now that checkmate has been established...... time for the game over.​

The phrase "baptism for the remission of sins" is taken out of context. Acts 2:38 does not say, "Be baptized for the remission of sins."
It says, "REPENT and be baptized for the remission of sins."​

Repentance is the conditon for salvation and baptism is one of the ways we demontrate that our repentance is sincere and genuine. ​


Repentance is the means by which we receive the remission of sins. Baptism is an outward sign that our repentance is genuine.​


Repentance is when a person changes their mind about Jesus and embraces His as Savior because they realize He is their only hope.​


Matthew 7:26-27

Matthew 10:32-33

John 5:22-23

John 8:12

John 14:6-7

Acts 4:12

Ephesians 2:1

1 Timothy 2:5

1 Timothy 4:10

Galatians 3:21

Colossians 1:20-22

Hebrews 10:11

Matthew 26:39

2 Corinthians 5:14

1 John 2:2

John 3:16-17



:hi:

game_over_press_start.jpg

 
#1,822
#1,822
ridethelightening said:
So why did he get baptized?
I'm asking because I want to know what you believe and why you believe it. So knock the checkmate stuff off.
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Click to expand...

Could have been for a multitude of reasons...

1. To identify Jesus as the Son of God at the beginning of his ministry.

2. It was a visual precursor to our Savior’s ultimate death, burial, and resurrection.

3. Or as Jesus himself said (Matthew 3:15), “Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness.” ("proper" does not equal "required" and "righteousness" does not equal "salvation").

4. Or perhaps, since the Levitical Law required that all priests were to be consecrated when they began their ministry at about 30 years of age, and Jesus was beginning his ministry, and it was the priests who offered sacrifice to God on behalf of the people... then it was necessary for Jesus to also be consecrated as a priest since he would ultimately offer up the greatest sacrifice of all.

5. It was a hot day and he wanted to cool off... probably not a major reason.

What we do know is that it wasn't for remission of sin, since He was sinless. John himself announced Jesus as the "Lamb of God"... a reference to Himself becoming the sacrificial lamb for all of our sins.
 
#1,823
#1,823
The only axe I have to grind is with people who always say "everything happens for a reason..." after something bad happens. As in, God has a plan for you that has been set forever and things are already determined. This is for your own good.

Bunch of trash. God planned hundreds of thousands of lives to die in the Haitian earthquake? I think not
 
#1,825
#1,825
No way in my book. Christians here in America forget how easy we have it. So many people all over the world live under horrific circumstances and have almost no chance of a decent life. I would guess many are not exposed at all to the Bible, too

There is no way you can convince me that God planned out someone's entire life when we have so many suffering constantly, along with abortions or still-born babies. He planned for a child to die a few weeks after being born?
 
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