Religious debate (split from main board)

#1,826
#1,826
ut 4 me said:
No way in my book. Christians here in America forget how easy we have it. So many people all over the world live under horrific circumstances and have almost no chance of a decent life. I would guess many are not exposed at all to the Bible, too

There is no way you can convince me that God planned out someone's entire life when we have so many suffering constantly, along with abortions or still-born babies. He planned for a child to die a few weeks after being born?
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No argument from me. We know that God gave us free will, but some confuse predestination with foreknowledge. There seem to be a lot of teachers that post in VN and I would wager that the best ones could tell you which of their students would likely fail a test, but that doesn't mean they should deny them the opportunity to take it.
 
#1,827
#1,827
I am also not sure how so many people support a literal word for word translation of the Bible. These writings have been translated many, many times and are by no means a primary source.

It is also obvious that it's not historically accurate; when did dinosaurs and primitive man occur? There is a lot of time unaccounted for prior to Adam and Eve.
 
#1,828
#1,828
=ut 4 me;3410948]No way in my book. Christians here in America forget how easy we have it. So many people all over the world live under horrific circumstances and have almost no chance of a decent life.
Most of the time I get no response to posts I make detailing the terrible situations that fellow believers in other parts of must deal with.

I think we should make more demands upon our government to do something about these things.
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#1,829
#1,829
ridethelightening said:
So why did he get baptized?

I'm asking because I want to know what you believe and why you believe it. So knock the checkmate stuff off.
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Do you really think that Jesus Christ, being the Son of God, had to be Baptized for forgiveness of sins, that He himself was going to die for? This is what your post has led me to think.

Jesus was Baptized to set an example for all of us as an outward showing of our faith in Him as Lord and Saviour.
 
#1,830
#1,830
ut 4 me said:
No way in my book. Christians here in America forget how easy we have it. So many people all over the world live under horrific circumstances and have almost no chance of a decent life. I would guess many are not exposed at all to the Bible, too

There is no way you can convince me that God planned out someone's entire life when we have so many suffering constantly, along with abortions or still-born babies. He planned for a child to die a few weeks after being born?
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These are my beliefs so take them as you will.

I believe that God set everything into motion knowing that there would eventually be light and dark, good and bad. We are meant to go through life and live the best we can, roll with the punches and do as much good as possible for us. Some will ask "why would God create everything and allow such bad things to happen to both good and bad people?" I struggled with this for some time myself but the answer is pretty simple simple. God never wanted his people to be mindless followers, robot-like in their worship of him. He wanted us to love him and be capable of the choice to make that decision on our own. In order for this to happen we had to have free will, and because of this free will there are both good and bad people, people who do great things for their fellow man and those who murder and take from their fellow man.

Sometimes it's very easy to tell the difference between what is good and what is bad. Other times it can be very complicated, what may very well appear to be good at first can lead to terrible consequences that weren't imagined and no one could possible have the foresight to imagine. This is why I am very careful of what I attribute to God.
 
#1,831
#1,831
Oldvol75 said:
Do you really think that Jesus Christ, being the Son of God, had to be Baptized for forgiveness of sins, that He himself was going to die for? This is what your post has led me to think.

Jesus was Baptized to set an example for all of us as an outward showing of our faith in Him as Lord and Saviour.
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The Bible is ripe with symbolism and I believe this is another example. John was considered by many a wild man because of the way he lived. If you think about it he was the minister to God's people who was leading them out of the wilderness, preparing them for the new way. John the Baptist meeting and baptizing Jesus was a passing of the torch type moment. John was cleansing God's followers every day and following God's instructions the best way he knew how. Then Jesus came to cleanse the sins of man for good and John's work on earth was more or less complete at that point.

Jesus was baptized twice, once in water and the second in blood. The first was symbolic and the second was the action that lead to salvation for us.
 
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#1,833
#1,833
Oldvol75 said:
Do you really think that Jesus Christ, being the Son of God, had to be Baptized for forgiveness of sins, that He himself was going to die for? This is what your post has led me to think.

Jesus was Baptized to set an example for all of us as an outward showing of our faith in Him as Lord and Saviour.
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Why would you believe that by me asking why did he get baptized? I was just asking why OE thought he did

Hear
Believe
Repent
Confess
Be baptized

And I have scripture to back every one of them up. Baptism is important. If you want to know more, I will help to the best of my abilities. I simply ask that if you are confused on this, please just read the Bible on your own and to the best of your understanding. Don't take your salvation lightly. It is important. I don't have all the answers, but I do know the whole Bible is important.

Jesus last command was the great commission.

Mark 16: 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
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#1,834
#1,834
KB5252 said:
These are my beliefs so take them as you will.

I believe that God set everything into motion knowing that there would eventually be light and dark, good and bad. We are meant to go through life and live the best we can, roll with the punches and do as much good as possible for us. Some will ask "why would God create everything and allow such bad things to happen to both good and bad people?" I struggled with this for some time myself but the answer is pretty simple simple. God never wanted his people to be mindless followers, robot-like in their worship of him. He wanted us to love him and be capable of the choice to make that decision on our own. In order for this to happen we had to have free will, and because of this free will there are both good and bad people, people who do great things for their fellow man and those who murder and take from their fellow man.

Sometimes it's very easy to tell the difference between what is good and what is bad. Other times it can be very complicated, what may very well appear to be good at first can lead to terrible consequences that weren't imagined and no one could possible have the foresight to imagine. This is why I am very careful of what I attribute to God.
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I understand you and I do agree. I believe there is a God and that he gives us "free will" to do whatever we please. I just cannot understand people who think God plays a part in every single event of your life, as if he chose for it to happen that way. I think he sits back and lets the physical laws govern the world, at least for the most part
 
#1,835
#1,835
ridethelightening said:
Why would you believe that by me asking why did he get baptized? I was just asking why OE thought he did

Hear
Believe
Repent
Confess
Be baptized

And I have scripture to back every one of them up. Baptism is important. If you want to know more, I will help to the best of my abilities. I simply ask that if you are confused on this, please just read the Bible on your own and to the best of your understanding. Don't take your salvation lightly. It is important. I don't have all the answers, but I do know the whole Bible is important.

Jesus last command was the great commission.

Mark 16: 15 And He said to them, “Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."Posted via VolNation Mobile
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Not to nit pick, because I believe in being baptized.
But I was wondering why Christ did not say, "....but he who does not believe, and is not baptized, will be condemned."

As I have stated before, I was baptized, and urge everyone who accepts Christ to be baptized as well. I just disagree with what it means.:hi:
 
#1,836
#1,836
BeecherVol said:
Not to nit pick, because I believe in being baptized.
But I was wondering why Christ did not say, "....but he who does not believe, and is not baptized, will be condemned."

As I have stated before, I was baptized, and urge everyone who accepts Christ to be baptized as well. I just disagree with what it means.:hi:
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Without belief there is no baptism. Take it for what you will. Ultimately its up to you what you believe. Just read and take the Bible for what it means to you
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#1,837
#1,837
:hi:

I understand what I believe. I wasn't trying to agrue your point really. I believe that baptism should be practiced as do you.
 
#1,842
#1,842
ut 4 me said:
I understand you and I do agree. I believe there is a God and that he gives us "free will" to do whatever we please. I just cannot understand people who think God plays a part in every single event of your life, as if he chose for it to happen that way. I think he sits back and lets the physical laws govern the world, at least for the most part
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I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum, but if god is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, then free will is an illusion.

Not being bound by time as we know it, god should know everything you're ever going to do for the rest of your life. Therefore, what appears to be free will is simply one following a path that's already known to, and therefore laid out by, god.
 
#1,843
#1,843
VolInMn said:
I'm sure this has been discussed ad nauseum, but if god is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, then free will is an illusion.

Not being bound by time as we know it, god should know everything you're ever going to do for the rest of your life. Therefore, what appears to be free will is simply one following a path that's already known to, and therefore laid out by, god.
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"Knowing" something is not the equivalent of "determining" something. For example... I know you're a jackazz but you're the one who made the decision to become one. :p
 
#1,844
#1,844
IBlvNTmWrk said:
"Knowing" something is not the equivalent of "determining" something. For example... I know you're a jackazz but you're the one who made the decision to become one. :p
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In this case it absolutely is. If you know what's going to happen in the future, then it, by definition, has already been determined.
 
#1,845
#1,845
VolInMn said:
In this case it absolutely is. If you know what's going to happen in the future, then it, by definition, has already been determined.
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But then the philosophical question becomes who determined it? Did you by your own actions and decisions, or did God? Did he simply allow the outcome or did he influence it? All those answers depend on how you view God and the assumptions you make.
 
#1,847
#1,847
KB5252 said:
But then the philosophical question becomes who determined it? Did you by your own actions and decisions, or did God? Did he simply allow the outcome or did he influence it? All those answers depend on how you view God and the assumptions you make.
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Which is why I said in my original post "if god is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent". If one doesn't believe that, then my point is invalid.
 
#1,849
#1,849
VolInMn said:
Which is why I said in my original post "if god is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent". If one doesn't believe that, then my point is invalid.
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Absolutely, I was just expanding on your statement.
 
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