Religious debate (split from main board)

#201
#201
Fair enough. If people leave me alone I leave them alone. But that isn't what happens. Instead, laws are made about not being able to buy wine or liquor in grocery stores.
 
#202
#202
jamesd1628 said:
Are you suggesting that there is no gray area between belief and knowledge? If you ask most Christians how they know it's true, they don't say: "I don't, I just chose to believe it." Instead, they say "I just know."
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I would hope most would have talked about faith.

:blink:
 
#203
#203
OrangeEmpire said:
I would hope most would have talked about faith.

:blink:
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Many posters on this board have stated that there are many facts that prove Christianity. They missed the bus on the whole "faith" thing in a rush to score some "I'm right and you're wrong" points.
 
#204
#204
IPorange said:
Fair enough. If people leave me alone I leave them alone. But that isn't what happens. Instead, laws are made about not being able to buy wine or liquor in grocery stores.
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But we are a country of laws. Some I like, some you dislike and vise versa, thats America! Besides you can always go to the liquor store.

On a side note, even as a Baptist pastor, when Jesus turned the water into wine, He turned it into the best wine, not grape juice.
 
#205
#205
jamesd1628 said:
Are you suggesting that there is no gray area between belief and knowledge? If you ask most Christians how they know it's true, they don't say: "I don't, I just chose to believe it." Instead, they say "I just know."
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The only thing I suggested was that you look up the word belief.

Don't have time to argue for arguements sake today.
Have a great day! And Merry Christmas!
 
#206
#206
IPorange said:
Many posters on this board have stated that there are many facts that prove Christianity. They missed the bus on the whole "faith" thing in a rush to score some "I'm right and you're wrong" points.
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That is how I was brought up. I had to attend a strict "Distinctively" Indy Baptist Church.

You know, the suffer/rules will get you to God crowd.

To me it is silly to say I'm right or you're wrong. The fun in talking about why either of us is crazy enough to believe what we believe.
 
#207
#207
Oldvol75 said:
But we are a country of laws. Some I like, some you dislike and vise versa, thats America! Besides you can always go to the liquor store.

On a side note, even as a Baptist pastor, when Jesus turned the water into wine, He turned it into the best wine, not grape juice.
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I wasn't going to go into dogma, but kudos to you for not being a cop-out on that one.
 
#208
#208
jamesd1628 said:
Are you suggesting that there is no gray area between belief and knowledge? If you ask most Christians how they know it's true, they don't say: "I don't, I just chose to believe it." Instead, they say "I just know."
Click to expand...

James the reason we say we "just know" is because it is a experience that one goes through. It just doesn't settle on the brain and we file it away as knowledge gained. Its a personal relationship that develops. You just have to experience it to understand, sorry but that the way it is.
 
#209
#209
Oldvol75 said:
James the reason we say we "just know" is because it is a experience that one goes through. It just doesn't settle on the brain and we file it away as knowledge gained. Its a personal relationship that develops. You just have to experience it to understand, sorry but that the way it is.
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I understand that Oldvol, and I wouldn't suggest that anyone can tell someone else what they have or have not experienced. My statement about "just know" was to point out to Vollygirl that people often use the words "believe" and "know" interchangeably, and that it is often difficult if not impossible to determine when something goes from the land of "belief" to the land of "knowledge".
 
#210
#210
IPorange said:
I wasn't going to go into dogma, but kudos to you for not being a cop-out on that one.
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I personally don't drink anymore. I used to, but gave that up and haven't had a desire to again. Growing up with a alcoholic father, I should have seen he signs earlier when I was drinking. Seeing my mom beat up by him as well as myself and not being able to do anything about it as a kid. That all changed at about age 16 when I grabbed him and broke two of his ribs, he didn't want to hit on us anymore.

I have nothing against anyone that drinks alcohol, the Bible does teach moderation and not to get drunk. There is a difference. I know that not all see this or believe this. That is what I have learned from my personal studies. Even Paul himself tells us to drink wine for the imfirmities of the stomach.
 
#211
#211
jamesd1628 said:
I understand that Oldvol, and I wouldn't suggest that anyone can tell someone else what they have or have not experienced. My statement about "just know" was to point out to Vollygirl that people often use the words "believe" and "know" interchangeably, and that it is often difficult if not impossible to determine when something goes from the land of "belief" to the land of "knowledge".
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Then you should understand that the Bible teaches that "true knowledge comes from God".
 
#212
#212
Oldvol75 said:
Then you should understand that the Bible teaches that "true knowledge comes from God".
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What exactly is "true knowledge"? Does that mean there is such a thing as false knowledge? Doesn't knowledge imply fact? Or at least that's how Vollygirl would view things, I think.
 
#213
#213
jamesd1628 said:
What exactly is "true knowledge"? Does that mean there is such a thing as false knowledge? Doesn't knowledge imply fact?
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You see there is our impass, I made the choice to believe the knowledge from God and you choose to believe mans knowlege! Both sets of imformation are there for our choosing! I think we have finally answered your question about choice. Took awhile, but I believe we are there!
 
#214
#214
Oldvol75 said:
You see there is our impass, I made the choice to believe the knowledge from God and you choose to believe mans knowlege! Both sets of imformation are there for our choosing! I think we have finally answered your question about choice. Took awhile, but I believe we are there!
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Is this how you go about convincing your flock of the wisdom of your sermons?

. . . these aren't the droids you're looking for . . . .
 
#216
#216
jamesd1628 said:
Is this how you go about convincing your flock of the wisdom of your sermons?

. . . these aren't the droids you're looking for . . . .
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Starting to get defensive??? Resorting to calling names? ie. droids Perhaps you should read one of the posts where I replied to IPorange alittle ways back.

I can't help it if you don't believe in choice. sorry.
 
#217
#217
droski said:
are the two really that incompatable?
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I wouldn't say they are totally incompatable to a certain point, where it gets to were man says we evolved from some kind of muck etc... etc..., then I can not believe they are compatable.
 
#218
#218
Oldvol75 said:
I wouldn't say they are totally incompatable to a certain point, where it gets to were man says we evolved from some kind of muck etc... etc..., then I can not believe they are compatable.
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why because you find the idea disgusting that man evolved from "muck?" why is the bible's version any more believable?
 
#219
#219
Oldvol75 said:
I wouldn't say they are totally incompatable to a certain point, where it gets to were man says we evolved from some kind of muck etc... etc..., then I can not believe they are compatable.
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Maybe God created man through the process of evolution . . . .
 
#220
#220
droski said:
why because you find the idea disgusting that man evolved from "muck?" why is the bible's version any more believable?
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No, your talking about random chance. How many things actually had to happen for man to evolve from this muck. Things had to go perfectly inorder for man to evolve. Things from climate, to the correct particles lining up, etc... for all the life that is on the earth today.

What would happen to the earth if our orbit was say 25,000 miles farther away from the sun? Or was the sun put into the right position inorder for mankind to be able to live?

To many things had to happen by chance for life to just happen. Now if were designed, these chances are taken out of the picture.
 
#222
#222
Didn't want you guys to think that I ran and hid somewhere, I have to run into town and take care of alittle business. I'll get back on here sometime tonight. GO VOLS!!!!
 
#223
#223
Serious question.....have never gotten an answer from the evolution crowd......

If man evolved from apes, then why are there still apes?
Are the apes that are still here not cabable of the same evolution that their ancestors were?
 
#224
#224
T-TownVol said:
Serious question.....have never gotten an answer from the evolution crowd......

If man evolved from apes, then why are there still apes?
Are the apes that are still here not cabable of the same evolution that their ancestors were?
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This sort of question indicates that you don't completely get what evolution is.

Evolution doesn't say an ape "turned into" a man.

Humans and modern apes share common ancestors, which were "ape-like" from a modern analog perspective. At a certain point, two separate populations diverged because each were responding to different environmental and ecological pressures. Modern apes are the product of evolution from those ancestors just as much as humans are. They were just adapting to a different set of circumstances, along a different path of biological success.

It's a common mistake to assume that evolution has a "direction" or end point towards a sentient being, but it doesn't. It is always moving in a "direction" for successful survival to reproduction.


Not to be overly confrontational, but I have a hard time believing you issued this question to very many educated people, or looked for the answer very hard. It's addressed in any high school textbook, and google is so familiar with it, it auto-finishes it. The answers to all those sort of Christian teen convention questions are readily available and addressed, as they have been put forth for over a hundred years. Hence, why Evolution is so widely accepted.
 
#225
#225
IPorange said:
This sort of question indicates that you don't completely get what evolution is.

Evolution doesn't say an ape "turned into" a man.

Humans and modern apes share common ancestors, which were "ape-like" from a modern analog perspective. At a certain point, two separate populations diverged because each were responding to different environmental and ecological pressures. Modern apes are the product of evolution from those ancestors just as much as humans are. They were just adapting to a different set of circumstances, along a different path of biological success.
It's a common mistake to assume that evolution has a "direction" or end point towards a sentient being, but it doesn't. It is always moving in a "direction" for successful survival to reproduction.


Not to be overly confrontational, but I have a hard time believing you issued this question to very many educated people, or looked for the answer very hard. It's addressed in any high school textbook, and google is so familiar with it, it auto-finishes it. The answers to all those sort of Christian teen convention questions are readily available and addressed, as they have been put forth for over a hundred years. Hence, why Evolution is so widely accepted.
Click to expand...

I get it, it is just fun to hear the "answers" that are made up to justify evolution. Thanks for the chuckle.
 
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