Rep. Giffords of Arizona shot

#876
#876
Lexvol said:
These Six Flags over Jesus churches don't get corporate sponsors. Money has to come from somewhere. In other words Protestants give too, and they don't get invoices from the church!

I see evidence of individual gifts at everywhere I look. Now we could debate what the churches do with the money. They have deifinitely failed in dealing with the poor (overall), but the American people do give. Suggesting otherwise is foolish.
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Are you in favor of a "Gift Economy????"

Served mankind well for over 11,740 years....

I had no idea what the data was for individual charitable donations (I knew our collective government contributions were tiny per individual). I myself was rather shocked to see IP's data.

There are clearly many other metrics to measure a people's generosity. I think Americans tip well when abroad....
 
#877
#877
Amazing that his parents have no culpability. Very sad, but that is what we've come to.
 
#878
#878
utgibbs said:
Are you in favor of a "Gift Economy????"

Served mankind well for over 11,740 years....

I had no idea what the data was for individual charitable donations (I knew our collective government contributions were tiny per individual). I myself was rather shocked to see IP's data.

There are clearly many other metrics to measure a people's generosity. I think Americans tip well when abroad....
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If the IRS was gutted this afternoon I wouldn't shed a single tear.

You say the american people are greedy and that greed is a virtue. I say I see evidence to the contrary on my drive to work everyday.
 
#879
#879
utgibbs said:
Maybe the real solution, one that doesn't freakin' bring the pages of 1984 to life would be to make it far more difficult / impossible for a Jared Loughner to buy a gun??????????
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And this would be accomplished how?
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#880
#880
fl0at said:
And this would be accomplished how?
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you don't understand. This kind of stuff doesn't happen if it's made harder to get guns. Check out England's gun banishment history. Only the bad guys follow the rules. The good guys are all just hiding their weapons, awaiting their chance at a coup.
 
#881
#881
lawgator1 said:
Conservatives love to say, hey, go get a job at Burger King. But someone who made $50,000 a year is not going to go make $14,000. You can argue until the cows come home that they should, and you may be right, but it isn't going to happen and I'm not sure that we want it to.
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They can starve.
 
#882
#882
I don't usually read salon, but it's interesting to see how the left thinks. i found this part particurally alluminating:

Salon vs. Salon: Violence and the political climate - Gabrielle Giffords - Salon.com


Like I wrote, my instinct last Saturday was to assume this was the work of a Tea Partyer.

Why would you assume that? if a republican got shot it wouldn't even occur to me that it was likely it was a left winger?

There's a reason he was fixated on the illegitimacy of the government, there's a reason he was fixated on his member of Congress, there's a reason he decided to shoot her instead of, say, shooting up the community college that kicked him out. I think it's likely he was drawn to some of the really nutty, out-there kind of individual sovereignty stuff, and I also think that the fact that there's been so much intense media noise concerning the supposed illegitimacy of the federal government over the last couple years probably had an effect on this guy's obsessions.

Yes because crazy people never obsess irrationally on things. Obviously palin and others must have led him there.

But Rand's "We the Living" was on his book list. It's the story of "the individual against the state," according to Ayn, and it's not really a book that lefties read

The rest of his book list reads like a socialists library.

I have friends who in the late '90s bristled at the idea that the content of music/video games/television/movies could inspire kids to kill -- and who are now pointing their fingers at the Tea Party.

An actual good point.

I don't think most of the people making the connection are doing it out of a cynical desire to score partisan points

BS
 
#884
#884
Looks like Paul Krugman has a little "hate" in him too.

"A message to progressives: By all means, hang Senator Joe Lieberman in effigy.
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In reference to HC vote I believe.

What makes that "eliminationist rhetoric" even better is the fact that effigies of political figures were burned at Krugman's election night party in 2008, as the New Yorker reported. Talk about a "climate of hate."
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http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/paul-hang-joe-lieberman-effigy-krugman-blames-tucson-shooting-rise-eliminationist-rhetoric_526

Nice work Paul.
 
#886
#886
tigervol9802 said:
I'm "anxiously" awaiting more details of his home life to come out. I've got a feeling this entire family has issues.
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agreed. i particurally liked one neighbor who said that he left his trash cans out for a couple of days since he was out of town and i guess his dad had a problem with it. ever since them everytime he sees him (even at the mall apparently) he screams at him "trash people! trash people!"
 
#887
#887
BigPapaVol said:
you don't understand. This kind of stuff doesn't happen if it's made harder to get guns. Check out England's gun banishment history. Only the bad guys follow the rules. The good guys are all just hiding their weapons, awaiting their chance at a coup.
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Do you really want to compare per capita murders? I'll even let you throw in knife murders for England.

Do you really want to compare per capita incarceration rates?

It would be easy to list someone on the gun buyer's database with the flags Jared had already raised. I believe he did indeed purchase his firearm.
 
#888
#888
utgibbs said:
Do you really want to compare per capita murders? I'll even let you throw in knife murders for England.

Do you really want to compare per capita incarceration rates?

It would be easy to list someone on the gun buyer's database with the flags Jared had already raised. I believe he did indeed purchase his firearm.
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The most commonly cited reason for homicide is argument (including arguments about money & property under the influence of alcohol or narcotics). One third of all homicides in 1997 were triggered by arguments. Felony (rape, theft, narcotics, etc. ) accounted for a fifth of homicides and gang killings accounted for one twentieth. About a third were of unknown motive and the other 10% were miscellaneous motives.

DEATH BY MURDER

Seems to me the first thing we should get rid of is that pesky 1st Amendment, thus greatly reducing murder rates by removing the ability to argue.

If only we could throw up flags for people who argue a lot, I think we could greatly reduce our homicide rate in the US...
 
#889
#889
droski said:
agreed. i particurally liked one neighbor who said that he left his trash cans out for a couple of days since he was out of town and i guess his dad had a problem with it. ever since them everytime he sees him (even at the mall apparently) he screams at him "trash people! trash people!"
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I've just got a gut feeling the apple didn't fall very far from the tree. Everything I have read is they were very reclusive, almost like the dad had a breakdown sometime in the late 90s.
 
#891
#891
Loughner was a John Freaking Kerry supporter, that figures, anyone who would vote for John kerry has to be a nutcase.
 
#892
#892
gsvol said:
Loughner was a John Freaking Kerry supporter, that figures, anyone who would vote for John kerry has to be a nutcase.
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He DIDN'T have a Sarah Palin poster on his wall? WHAT? That can't be.

The next thing you'll say is that there is no evidence whatsoever that he was influenced by the right-wing hate machine. Preposterous!!!!!
 
#893
#893
interesting tidbit and why people probably shouldn't comment on investigations while they are ongoing

Obama speech undercuts federal charge for judge's murder - Josh Gerstein - POLITICO.com

Obama told the crowd at the University of Arizona. Roll's "colleagues described him as the hardest-working judge within the Ninth Circuit. He was on his way back from attending mass, as he did every day, when he decided to stop by and say, 'Hi,' to his representative."

Loughner's alleged killing of Roll may only be a crime under federal law if Roll was on business and not merely stopping by to say hi to a friend.
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probably won't matter anyway since the Feds have enough
 
#894
#894
Wow, I did not know there was a stipulation that they had to be "on the job."

I guess a few people did, though.
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#896
#896
fl0at said:
Wow, I did not know there was a stipulation that they had to be "on the job."

I guess a few people did, though.
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Is that the point, or does that just undercut the severity? Instead of premeditated murder of a judge, it's now just wanton murder of a man. The premeditated end of the attempted murder of a Congresswoman should be plenty.
 
#897
#897
BigPapaVol said:
Is that the point, or does that just undercut the severity? Instead of premeditated murder of a judge, it's now just wanton murder of a man. The premeditated end of the attempted murder of a Congresswoman should be plenty.
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Exactly.
 
#898
#898
BigPapaVol said:
Is that the point, or does that just undercut the severity? Instead of premeditated murder of a judge, it's now just wanton murder of a man. The premeditated end of the attempted murder of a Congresswoman should be plenty.
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It should make absolutely no difference, and should not undercut the severity of the crime in any way. I was just stating amazement at the fact that there is a distinction between murder of a Federal judge on the job, and murder of a Federal judge off the job.

Seems like a silly thing to have a difference.
 
#899
#899
fl0at said:
It should make absolutely no difference, and should not undercut the severity of the crime in any way. I was just stating amazement at the fact that there is a distinction between murder of a Federal judge on the job, and murder of a Federal judge off the job.

Seems like a silly thing to have a difference.
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I think we're getting at the mens rea end of our legal system for that particular crime. Did he knowingly assassinate a federal judge or did he kill a guy who happened to be there?

I'm a legal simpleton, but that's my understanding.
 
#900
#900
BigPapaVol said:
I think we're getting at the mens rea end of our legal system for that particular crime. Did he knowingly assassinate a federal judge or did he kill a guy who happened to be there?

I'm a legal simpleton, but that's my understanding.
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wrong place, wrong time IMHO.
 
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