Reviving Redistributionism

#154
#154
TennNC said:
I mean, we're talking basics here, like eating vegetables, brushing their teeth, doing their homework, reading, writing, arithmetic -- it's too easy for the system to let them just slip through, graduate from High School, and have no clue how to make a life for themselves.
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Depressing but I don't see how anyone could expect a government program to effectively address these problems.
 
#155
#155
OrangeEmpire said:
Drill personal responsibility and self confidence into them.

The kids are born without a fighting chance.
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Trust me, we do, every chance we get. Every time we see them we tell them, "Y'all are smart, and you can do anything you set your minds to."

But then again, we're not "responsible" for them. Their mom is, and she's trying to have a life of her own too, and she literally can't do it all herself. And we're also doing this on our own dime and our own free time. And we can walk away anytime we want.
 
#157
#157
TennNC said:
Trust me, we do, every chance we get. Every time we see them we tell them, "Y'all are smart, and you can do anything you set your minds to."

But then again, we're not "responsible" for them. Their mom is, and she's trying to have a life of her own too, and she literally can't do it all herself. And we're also doing this on our own dime and our own free time. And we can walk away anytime we want.
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This is what I don't get with you......... you have it down perfectly................

You do it because you care!

The government does not care!
 
#158
#158
TennNC said:
Bureaucracy does not exist within the government only. Take a peek inside any sizable company, church, organization, and you'll see they've got plenty of it too.
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You know what the difference is...........

Those things you mentioned are successful.......

You cannot tell me one thing that the government does that is just adequate.
 
#160
#160
volinbham said:
Depressing but I don't see how anyone could expect a government program to effectively address these problems.
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Why not?

Why couldn't it at least play a role? Private-public partnerships? Faith-based programs? Do you think individual citizens will voluntarily give up their time and money to address these problems on their own?

(and yes, government can be more efficient through reform, etc. - I'm all for that)
 
#162
#162
TennNC said:
Trust me, we do, every chance we get. Every time we see them we tell them, "Y'all are smart, and you can do anything you set your minds to."

But then again, we're not "responsible" for them. Their mom is, and she's trying to have a life of her own too, and she literally can't do it all herself. And we're also doing this on our own dime and our own free time. And we can walk away anytime we want.
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I think I understand your position but what I would point out is that when you become a mother or father you give up your personal life to a large extent. Your life is consumed for the most part in work and taking care of the day to day needs of your child. I wish I could make three UT home games this year but neither our budget or schedule will allow for this, still I consider it a privilege to raise my little girl and would have it no other way. Maybe in a few years I can make a game or two.
 
#163
#163
TennNC said:
Why not?

Why couldn't it at least play a role? Private-public partnerships? Faith-based programs? Do you think individual citizens will voluntarily give up their time and money to address these problems on their own?

(and yes, government can be more efficient through reform, etc. - I'm all for that)
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So we incent citizens to work on these programs? I honestly can't envision a program that would help.

It seems so convoluted to take money from citizens only to return it to them (or their church or whatever) to help less fortunate people.

As an alternative, the tax-exemption for charitable organizations is a better example of how the government can get out of the way to let these organizations operate.
 
#164
#164
volinbham said:
So we incent citizens to work on these programs? I honestly can't envision a program that would help.

It seems so convoluted to take money from citizens only to return it to them (or their church or whatever) to help less fortunate people.

As an alternative, the tax-exemption for charitable organizations is a better example of how the government can get out of the way to let these organizations operate.
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Because the vast majority of these organizations are far more efficient and can help many more people for the same buck as gov. programs.
 
#165
#165
OrangeEmpire said:
You know what the difference is...........

Those things you mentioned are successful.......

You cannot tell me one thing that the government does that is just adequate.
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Actually, I can. There are many, many, many public schools that are outstanding. They produce top-notch students year-in and year-out. Most of the time, they tend to have more resources, but they're successful. That's a combo of state and local funding, but anyway.

Many military and law-enforcement agencies are more than adequate.

The government sent man to the moon and explored Mars.

The government negotiates peace treaties amongst nations.

The government paves roads and builds bridges and helps pay for medical and scientific breakthroughs.

The government conducts free and (sometimes) fair elections.

This would be interesting, and VBH probably could give us some info or insight into this: I'd like to know what % of private businesses, churches, and other non-publicly funded organizations fail. And what % of government "fails." I'm not making any predictions, just would like to know the answer.
 
#167
#167
KB5252 said:
I think I understand your position but what I would point out is that when you become a mother or father you give up your personal life to a large extent. Your life is consumed for the most part in work and taking care of the day to day needs of your child. I wish I could make three UT home games this year but neither our budget or schedule will allow for this, still I consider it a privilege to raise my little girl and would have it no other way. Maybe in a few years I can make a game or two.
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And the reality thing is, she was not brought up the same way you were. And who knows why the fathers of her two children aren't around any longer.

When I said she's trying to have a life, she's trying to work and take care of things and try not to go insane. I can feel for her, even though she makes me really mad sometimes. The truth is, I honestly don't know all she's dealing with either.
 
#169
#169
TennNC said:
This would be interesting, and VBH probably could give us some info or insight into this: I'd like to know what % of private businesses, churches, and other non-publicly funded organizations fail. And what % of government "fails." I'm not making any predictions, just would like to know the answer.
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I don't think such a comparison is possible since failure means two different things in these contexts.

Failed government programs live on while failed private enterprises ceast to exist (the definition of failure in their case).
 
#170
#170
TennNC said:
Why not?

Why couldn't it at least play a role? Private-public partnerships? Faith-based programs? Do you think individual citizens will voluntarily give up their time and money to address these problems on their own?

(and yes, government can be more efficient through reform, etc. - I'm all for that)
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My wife and I have been "approved" for adoption, in two states, for over two years. We are willing to give a sibling group of up to three, a home forever. We all see the money spent on commercials to BEG people to adopt.....get the picture yet?.....Every time we are identified for a group of siblings...someone in the government run foster care system comes up with a LAME excuse for the adoption to not go forward.

I truely believe that they do not really want to place kids because that would mean that they no longer have job security.

I am so fed up with the states of FL & GA, and their foster care systems, I could puke.

So, do not come at me with "government is there to help" crap.

Thanks for letting me vent.
 
#171
#171
volinbham said:
It seems so convoluted to take money from citizens only to return it to them (or their church or whatever) to help less fortunate people.
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It seems convoluted b/c you're probably a good guy who would help those less fortunate anyway. If everyone were like you, I agree it would be a waste to require you to forfeit some of your income for these services.

Do you honestly think most people would voluntarily give their money away?
 
#172
#172
volinbham said:
I don't think such a comparison is possible since failure means two different things in these contexts.

Failed government programs live on while failed private enterprises ceast to exist (the definition of failure in their case).
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Right, so, given your definition of failure in a government context, what % constitutes failure? I trust your judgment. Just ballpark it.
 
#173
#173
TennNC said:
So you think if we got rid of all government programs to help the "disadvantaged" (or whatever you want to call them), the private sector would take the ball across the goal line?
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No. I'm not opposed to some safety net programs and recognize their necessity. However, I don't see how more of them can do anything to address the situation you described about the boy you help.

The government can and does help him his mother get food, shelter, education and healthcare. However, it can't make him eat vegetables, pay attention in school, etc.

(As an aside, the fact that public education is failing in many areas is not because the government isn't involved enough in it)

Again, if we are talking about taxation then payment via the government to some public-private partnerships, why not just allow tax payers to deduct more of those contributions or expand the type of activity that qualifies for tax exemption rather than filter that money through the government and all the bureaucratic waste and mismangement that it would entail?
 
#174
#174
TennNC said:
And the reality thing is, she was not brought up the same way you were. And who knows why the fathers of her two children aren't around any longer.

When I said she's trying to have a life, she's trying to work and take care of things and try not to go insane. I can feel for her, even though she makes me really mad sometimes. The truth is, I honestly don't know all she's dealing with either.
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Fair enough. And at the risk of sounding cruel I would say her problem stems from her being very naive, immature, or just plain stupid with the choices she made earlier in life. We can't just ignore the needs of her children but the fact that she is about to go insane is just a result of her bad choices. This is a good example of where entitlement programs could go wrong. If we as a society were to help her with all these problems her kids might grow up to think there are no consequences. If we ignore her problems then her children might grow up to hate the world and adjust to life poorly because of their situation. There is no easy answer but the charity of individuals and private organizations (churches and such) can help them much more than some gov. program.
 
#175
#175
TennNC said:
So you think if we got rid of all government programs to help the "disadvantaged" (or whatever you want to call them), the private sector would take the ball across the goal line?
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Isn't that what family, churches, and charities are for?
 
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