Reviving Redistributionism

[volinbham]

Right, so, given your definition of failure in a government context, what % constitutes failure? I trust your judgment. Just ballpark it.

No idea since I don't have any meaningful grasp on all the different programs.

Here's the problem defining failure in this context.

Are welfare programs a success/failure or neither? Some people have been helped while others have had their will sapped and become wholly dependent on the state (I believe this is a great evil of some well-intentioned programs).

There is no metric on which to judge and worse, there is little attempt to create one. With a business, it's pretty simple, if you take in less revenue than your costs over a long enough time, you fail.

 

[TennNC]

My wife and I have been "approved" for adoption, in two states, for over two years. We are willing to give a sibling group of up to three, a home forever. We all see the money spent on commercials to BEG people to adopt.....get the picture yet?.....Every time we are identified for a group of siblings...someone in the government run foster care system comes up with a LAME excuse for the adoption to not go forward.

I truely believe that they do not really want to place kids because that would mean that they no longer have job security.

I am so fed up with the states of FL & GA, and their foster care systems, I could puke.

So, do not come at me with "government is there to help" crap.

Thanks for letting me vent.

hey man - vent away. it's good for the soul. and I hear you 100% on this one.

I think it totally sucks (pardon my language, but that's how I feel). And whoever is holding this up, for whatever reason, needs to realize what's in the best interests OF THE CHILDREN!!!

I applaud you and your wife a million times over not only for your decision to adopt, but for your patience in dealing with a crappy system. It can and should be better, no doubt.

And I think that whoever ends up in your care will be one (or more) lucky soul.

That said, who else would handle this but a government agency? Sounds like they need to loosen the regulations big-time and realize that foster care is much, much worse than a family who's willing to take on the responsibility of adoption, regardless of whatever piddly reason they think of that the family shouldn't adopt.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

The last line might be a tad bit oversimplistic.

The government can't care.... it is impossible.....

The only thing that government can do is grow its powers and in the process limit the freedom of the citizen.

 

[KB5252]

My wife and I have been "approved" for adoption, in two states, for over two years. We are willing to give a sibling group of up to three, a home forever. We all see the money spent on commercials to BEG people to adopt.....get the picture yet?.....Every time we are identified for a group of siblings...someone in the government run foster care system comes up with a LAME excuse for the adoption to not go forward.

I truely believe that they do not really want to place kids because that would mean that they no longer have job security.

I am so fed up with the states of FL & GA, and their foster care systems, I could puke.

So, do not come at me with "government is there to help" crap.

Thanks for letting me vent.

If it is through "Planned Parenthood" you would be correct. They need to keep plenty of kids for adoption because much of the money they receive from the gov is tied in with adoption and abortion (their true agenda IMO). Abortion is controversial, adoption is not. Side note there are people trying to put forth legislation that would separate the two and cut funding for Planned Parenthood because of this. They perform many more adoptions than abortions and the amount of money they receive from the government is astounding.

 

[volinbham]

It seems convoluted b/c you're probably a good guy who would help those less fortunate anyway. If everyone were like you, I agree it would be a waste to require you to forfeit some of your income for these services.

Do you honestly think most people would voluntarily give their money away?

What I'm suggesting is cutting out the middleman (the government) - expand the deductions or give tax credits for specific activities.

 

[TennNC]

No. I'm not opposed to some safety net programs and recognize their necessity.

I agree, but I think many on this board would differ.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Actually, I can. There are many, many, many public schools that are outstanding. They produce top-notch students year-in and year-out. Most of the time, they tend to have more resources, but they're successful. That's a combo of state and local funding, but anyway.

Many military and law-enforcement agencies are more than adequate.

The government sent man to the moon and explored Mars.

The government negotiates peace treaties amongst nations.

The government paves roads and builds bridges and helps pay for medical and scientific breakthroughs.

The government conducts free and (sometimes) fair elections.

This would be interesting, and VBH probably could give us some info or insight into this: I'd like to know what % of private businesses, churches, and other non-publicly funded organizations fail. And what % of government "fails." I'm not making any predictions, just would like to know the answer.

Every thing you mentioned is less than adequate.....

You are telling me 100 schools out of the entire country make up for the 1,000s that are terrible?

Think of how much waste the DOD and LE spends of inconsequential things.

So NASA gets a free pass because they put a man on the moon? Apollo 13...... deaths during training due to faulty equipment?

Yeah, Woodrow Wilson really worked out that peace treaty stuff!

Yeah, love those pot holes I drive through!

Florida worked out real well with elections!

100% of the government fails!

 

[TennNC]

What I'm suggesting is cutting out the middleman (the government) - expand the deductions or give tax credits for specific activities.

Well, I know our intentions are both in the right place. I have a mental hang-up about people's willingness to contribute to charities, even if they get tax breaks. I think most people are inherently selfish. Not saying this is a good trait of mine, but it's the truth.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

So you think if we got rid of all government programs to help the "disadvantaged" (or whatever you want to call them), the private sector would take the ball across the goal line?

No it should be up to the people and more specifically local churches!

 

[TennNC]

Every thing you mentioned is less than adequate.....

You are telling me 100 schools out of the entire country make up for the 1,000s that are terrible?

Think of how much waste the DOD and LE spends of inconsequential things.

So NASA gets a free pass because they put a man on the moon? Apollo 13...... deaths during training due to faulty equipment?

Yeah, Woodrow Wilson really worked out that peace treaty stuff!

Yeah, love those pot holes I drive through!

Florida worked out real well with elections!

100% of the government fails!

Tell me how you see this glass...

 

[allvol123]

No it should be up to the people and more specifically local churches!

Amen!

 

[T-TownVol]

hey man - vent away. it's good for the soul. and I hear you 100% on this one.

I think it totally sucks (pardon my language, but that's how I feel). And whoever is holding this up, for whatever reason, needs to realize what's in the best interests OF THE CHILDREN!!!

I applaud you and your wife a million times over not only for your decision to adopt, but for your patience in dealing with a crappy system. It can and should be better, no doubt.

And I think that whoever ends up in your care will be one (or more) lucky soul.

That said, who else would handle this but a government agency? Sounds like they need to loosen the regulations big-time and realize that foster care is much, much worse than a family who's willing to take on the responsibility of adoption, regardless of whatever piddly reason they think of that the family shouldn't adopt.

There are many private groups that handle adoptions if you are willing to pay them to do it. We were foster parents in FL and got approved to adopt down there. We have two kids of our own, so we want to give a home to some kids that have no home. Then we moved to GA and had to start all over again because the person in charge of GA foster care thinks that they are smarter that the head of FL. So they made us get re-approved.
The rules are there to keep kids in government care and as I said, keep the job security for the government employees.
The foster care system used to be run by the Churches. It should go back to them. I promise you they would step up.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Tell me how you see this glass...

It is impossible for any thing to be half empty!

Nice try!

:hi:

 

[T-TownVol]

If it is through "Planned Parenthood" you would be correct. They need to keep plenty of kids for adoption because much of the money they receive from the gov is tied in with adoption and abortion (their true agenda IMO). Abortion is controversial, adoption is not. Side note there are people trying to put forth legislation that would separate the two and cut funding for Planned Parenthood because of this. They perform many more adoptions than abortions and the amount of money they receive from the government is astounding.

Not through Planned Parenthood...through the States of FL and or GA...but they will not cooperate.

We are not trying to adopt babies or infants. We are looking for kids between 5 and 12. The ones that the State considers "special needs"

 

[KB5252]

Not through Planned Parenthood...through the States of FL and or GA...but they will not cooperate.

sorry to hear that!

 

[VolDad]

Well, I know our intentions are both in the right place. I have a mental hang-up about people's willingness to contribute to charities, even if they get tax breaks. I think most people are inherently selfish. Not saying this is a good trait of mine, but it's the truth.

If you mother, father, brother, sister or child were one of the “disadvantaged” that you speak of; would you help them or would you expect the government to take money out of our pockets and give to them?