Richmond is taking down Confederate statues: Is this the end for other Confederate memorials?

[Franklin Pierce]

 

[carlos86]

 

[DynaLo]

Sigh.... The Constitution had no prohibition to secession and it’s basically a listed recourse in the Declaration of Independence so it actually was legal in 1860. It wasn’t until the SCOTUS decision on Texas v. White, a bond issue, in 1869 that it was declared not constitutionally supported and even then the Court’s opinion left avenues open concerning revolution and consent of the states.

In reading the specific language used in the court’s opinion it’s very clear they had to rule in the manner that they did. To do otherwise would validate the secession of Texas, along with the other states, and leave no doubt that the secession of the Confederacy was indeed legitimate.

 

[LouderVol]

Sigh.... The Constitution had no prohibition to secession and it’s basically a listed recourse in the Declaration of Independence so it actually was legal in 1860. It wasn’t until the SCOTUS decision on Texas v. White, a bond issue, in 1869 that it was declared not constitutionally supported and even then the Court’s opinion left avenues open concerning revolution and consent of the states.

In reading the specific language used in the court’s opinion it’s very clear they had to rule in the manner that they did. To do otherwise would validate the secession of Texas, along with the other states, and leave no doubt that the secession of the Confederacy was indeed legitimate.

It was. The only reason they didnt officially rule that during the war was because Linvoln threatened to lock them up and then disbanded the SC for a while. Or whatever you want to call it where he wouldnt let them.hear cases.

 

[hog88]

Generals have been wrong before so we shouldn't be surprised that this one is wrong now.

 

[CagleMtnVol]

I've read a lot on the Civil War and to my knowledge I can not remember reading where anyone on the Union side considered the Confederacy an act of treason. After the war all Confederate soldiers had their citizenships officially restored and in fact all Confederate grave markers were paid for by the United States government.

They are also protected under United States law just as all other American military burial sites.

 

[LouderVol]

I've read a lot on the Civil War and to my knowledge I can not remember reading where anyone on the Union side considered the Confederacy an act of treason. After the war all Confederate soldiers had their citizenships officially restored and in fact all Confederate grave markers were paid for by the United States government.

They are also protected under United States law just as all other American military burial sites.

Shhh. They dont like facts.

 

[Arclight]

Milley=ZZZzzzz

 

[k-town_king]

I've read a lot on the Civil War and to my knowledge I can not remember reading where anyone on the Union side considered the Confederacy an act of treason. After the war all Confederate soldiers had their citizenships officially restored and in fact all Confederate grave markers were paid for by the United States government.

They are also protected under United States law just as all other American military burial sites.

Revisionist garbage.

They were EVENTUALLY pardoned with rights restored.

They were considered traitors and there was a huge fight over forgiving the treason.

It was granted on the basis of swears of loyalty the US and to never commit TREASON again. In the name of repairing the nation terms of pardon were negotiated and agreed upon.

All Confederate soldiers gain presidential pardons, Dec. 25, 1868
"On Dec. 8, 1863, in his annual message to Congress, Lincoln, the first Republican president, had outlined his plans for reconstruction of the South, including amnesty terms for former Confederates. A pardon would require an oath of allegiance, but it would not restore ownership to former slaves, or restore confiscated property that involved a third party.

As Lincoln further envisioned his actions, his pardons would have excluded officeholders of the Confederate government or persons who had mistreated prisoners.
Congress, however, objected to Lincoln's plans as too lenient and refused to recognize delegates from the reconstructed governments of Louisiana and Arkansas. With radical Republican lawmakers in full control of the legislative agenda, Congress instead passed the Wade-Davis Bill. This measure required half of any former Confederate state’s voters to swear allegiance to the United States and that they had not supported the Confederacy. While the bill also ended slavery, it did not allow former slaves to vote. Lincoln vetoed the bill.

During his presidency, Lincoln issued 64 pardons for war-related offences: 22 for conspiracy, 17 for treason, 12 for rebellion, nine for holding an office under the Confederacy, and four for serving with the rebels."


They could not be pardoned of treason if they were never considered traitors as you claim. They were

 

[Lerxtwood]

Thomas Jefferson was a better man than you could ever hope to be

Because he continually raped Sally Hemings?

 

[LouderVol]

Revisionist garbage.

They were EVENTUALLY pardoned with rights restored.

They were considered traitors and there was a huge fight over forgiving the treason.

It was granted on the basis of swears of loyalty the US and to never commit TREASON again. In the name of repairing the nation terms of pardon were negotiated and agreed upon.

All Confederate soldiers gain presidential pardons, Dec. 25, 1868
"On Dec. 8, 1863, in his annual message to Congress, Lincoln, the first Republican president, had outlined his plans for reconstruction of the South, including amnesty terms for former Confederates. A pardon would require an oath of allegiance, but it would not restore ownership to former slaves, or restore confiscated property that involved a third party.

As Lincoln further envisioned his actions, his pardons would have excluded officeholders of the Confederate government or persons who had mistreated prisoners.
Congress, however, objected to Lincoln's plans as too lenient and refused to recognize delegates from the reconstructed governments of Louisiana and Arkansas. With radical Republican lawmakers in full control of the legislative agenda, Congress instead passed the Wade-Davis Bill. This measure required half of any former Confederate state’s voters to swear allegiance to the United States and that they had not supported the Confederacy. While the bill also ended slavery, it did not allow former slaves to vote. Lincoln vetoed the bill.

During his presidency, Lincoln issued 64 pardons for war-related offences: 22 for conspiracy, 17 for treason, 12 for rebellion, nine for holding an office under the Confederacy, and four for serving with the rebels."


They could not be pardoned of treason if they were never considered traitors as you claim. They were

In 1863? You know the war wasnt over.

And unless the Union really sucked at fighting there were far more than 17 traitors.

 

[DynaLo]

An interesting tidbit of non revisionist history is that in December of 1868 President Andrew Johnson issued a full unconditional pardon and amnesty to ALL Confederate soldiers with the restoration of ALL rights, privileges, and immunities under the Constitution and the laws.

This occurred the year prior to the SCOTUS decision in White v. Texas where the 5-3 ruling by the court stated that secession was not supported by the Constitution and where they also stated that revolution or the consent of the states could lead to a successful secession.

In their decision the court referred to the original Articles of Confederation wording that the Union “be perpetual” and connected that to the Constitution’s wording of “to form a more perfect Union” as proving the idea of indissoluble unity.

What the court did not clarify in that decision is what constitutes “the consent of the states”.

There’s a reason that Lincoln referred to it as a “domestic rebellion” when calling forward a Northern army. To have called it a revolution by the South would have validated the legitimacy of the secession as a recourse expressly set out in the Declaration of Independence.

“That to secure these rights, governments are instituted among men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness.”

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Happy Birthday To General Nathan Bedford Forrest (July 13, 1821)

At the outbreak of the Civil War, Forrest volunteered as a private before deciding to raise and equip an entire unit at his own expense. He was commissioned lieutenant colonel, and issued this call to arms in June, 1861:

“I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged. COME ON BOYS, IF YOU WANT A HEAP OF FUN AND TO KILL SOME YANKEES”

In February 1862, Forrest’s unit was stationed at Fort Donelson on the Cumberland when Gen. Ulysses S. Grant forced its surrender. Rather than accept Gen. Buckner’s decision to capitulate, Forrest and his men slipped away, through the snow, and fought at the Battle of Shiloh less than two months later. That summer he began to make the kind of lightning raids that made him perhaps the single most feared cavalry commander of the entire war and earned him the nickname “the wizard of the saddle.”

 

[MontyPython]

Happy Birthday To General Nathan Bedford Forrest (July 13, 1821)

At the outbreak of the Civil War, Forrest volunteered as a private before deciding to raise and equip an entire unit at his own expense. He was commissioned lieutenant colonel, and issued this call to arms in June, 1861:

“I wish none but those who desire to be actively engaged. COME ON BOYS, IF YOU WANT A HEAP OF FUN AND TO KILL SOME YANKEES”

In February 1862, Forrest’s unit was stationed at Fort Donelson on the Cumberland when Gen. Ulysses S. Grant forced its surrender. Rather than accept Gen. Buckner’s decision to capitulate, Forrest and his men slipped away, through the snow, and fought at the Battle of Shiloh less than two months later. That summer he began to make the kind of lightning raids that made him perhaps the single most feared cavalry commander of the entire war and earned him the nickname “the wizard of the saddle.”

Just for the record, the South *still* lost.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Nolte: Chattanooga Beheading of Virgin Mary Statue Is Latest Attack on Catholic Church

“The Chattanooga Police Department is investigating after someone vandalized a 5-foot tall statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary at the St. Stephen Catholic Church,” reports local media.

The Blessed Mother was beheaded.

Nolte: Chattanooga Beheading of Virgin Mary Statue Is Latest Attack on Catholic Church

 

[LouderVol]

Nolte: Chattanooga Beheading of Virgin Mary Statue Is Latest Attack on Catholic Church

“The Chattanooga Police Department is investigating after someone vandalized a 5-foot tall statue of the Blessed Virgin Mary at the St. Stephen Catholic Church,” reports local media.

The Blessed Mother was beheaded.

Nolte: Chattanooga Beheading of Virgin Mary Statue Is Latest Attack on Catholic Church

Crazy to see this happening somewhere I know. It wasnt our primary parish but we would go occasionally.

FWIW that picture is not from St. Stephen's in Chattanooga.

 

[newarkvol]

Pentagon Sidesteps Trump to Ban the Confederate Flag
"In a carefully worded memo that Defense Department officials said they hoped would avoid igniting another defense of the flag from President Trump, Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper issued guidance that lists the types of flags that can be displayed on military installations — in barracks, on cars and on signs....
“Problem solved — we hope,” one Defense Department official said on Friday, speaking on the condition of anonymity so as not to anger Mr. Trump."

 

[Vol737]

Time to fight back. Overwhelming force and firepower. Play stupid games, win the ultimate stupid prize.

Rioters Attack Police Officers In Chicago While Trying To Destroy Statue

 

[golfballs]

 

[0nelilreb]

Nah .. just run background checks and make them pay for “bottle safety courses “before they can own one of the registered bottles with serial numbers .

 

[Weezer]

Generals have been wrong before so we shouldn't be surprised that this one is wrong now.

JMO, but the fact secession isn't provided for specifically in the Constitution leads me to believe that under the Tenth Amendment it's a power that falls to the states.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Braves Remove ‘Chop On’ Statue from Outside Stadium

On Sunday, the Atlanta Braves quietly removed their “Chop On” statue from near the third-base entrance at Truist Park.

Braves Remove 'Chop On' Statue from Outside Stadium

 

[Volsfaninva917]

What are you talking about, clearly they are peaceful just ask ktown

 

[zeppelin128]

House votes to remove Confederate statues - CNNPolitics

305-113 vote. Seventy-two Republicans and VolNation's Golden Boi Justin Amash joined fellow Democrats to vote yes. All 113 nay votes were from the GOP. Probably dead on arrival in the Senate, but an unusual display of bipartisanship.

 

[CagleMtnVol]