Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

[MadisonvilleVol]

He’s taken us to one in 6 years

Im curious. How old are you? And I ask that sincerely. I’m a middle aged guy that sat thru several average coach’s. A few below average coach’s. And one or two above average coaches. I remember hurting for those kids on the court with 4,000fans supporting them.
I strongly disagree with your assessment about Barnes. And that is OK. But it does blow my mind that anybody would call him an average coach. 30+ years and averages over 20 wins a season. Do I wish he had more post season success? Yup. No doubt. But I’m thankful that he gets us there and gives us a chance.

 

[1985Vols]

Im curious. How old are you? And I ask that sincerely. I’m a middle aged guy that sat thru several average coach’s. A few below average coach’s. And one or two above average coaches. I remember hurting for those kids on the court with 4,000fans supporting them.
I strongly disagree with your assessment about Barnes. And that is OK. But it does blow my mind that anybody would call him an average coach. 30+ years and averages over 20 wins a season. Do I wish he had more post season success? Yup. No doubt. But I’m thankful that he gets us there and gives us a chance.

Age has nothing to do with it. I’ve watched a lot of UT basketball in my time and am amazed at the Barnes worshippers. He’s not the coach that deserves credit for putting more than 4000 fans in TBA, that credit goes to Bruce Pearl. He’s the coach that revived a “ dead” program caused by the previous coaches before him. Barnes has sustained what Pearl built. It’s not like UT hasn’t had a good program before , since you’re middle aged, you should remember Stokley being packed with 12,700 fans in the 70’s and 80’s when Ray Mears
and even Don DeVoe coached some really good teams. Now, back to Barnes. I actually “ like” him as a person and am Appreciative he runs a clean program. However, he is paid more than any coach on our campus, and we are a football school, but his results ( 1 sweet 16) do not match his success in the post season. He has had several elite teams that have underperformed come tournament time ( 2018 lost to Loyola Chicago 2nd round; 2019 loss to Purdue Sweet 16; 2021 lost to Oregon St. first round) Need I say more? You can worship Barnes, and I get it, he has a lot of you thinking he is earning his money because we are “ somewhat” relevant during the Regular season . However, in My opinion, it’s time he takes us to the next level like a $5M a year coach SHOULD be expected to do

 

[Volnuck]

Bring back Cuonzo!

Same exact winning percentage at Tennessee. The winning meter hasn’t moved much but the paycheck has, lol.

 

[Vols8086]

I really don't understand so many posters bringing up Wade Houston, Buzz Ball, etc as if that somehow means Barnes has a lower ceiling. Those coaches have been gone for close to 20 and 30 years. What possible influence do they have on the current state of the program?

Over the past 15 or so years, we have had 3 totally different coaches, with totally different styles and systems get to the Sweet 16 and have varying levels of success. Wouldn't that show a pretty good infrastructure in place to have a high level basketball program? To these high school kids, UT has been a pretty successful program for the bulk of their lives. I bet they don't even know who Wade Houston and Buzz Peterson are.

At what point is a program allowed to alter its expectations? Why do the Barnes acolytes act like this is a bad job and act that due to previous coaches failures, this is the best we should ever expect? Is there a time limit on these things? If this program is destined for futility with no chance of being better, then why pay a coach top 5 money if the coach is essentially irrelevant to the results of the program overall? That is basically the argument you are making.

I mean if that's the case, lets just go cheap and fund the more historically successful programs like football and women's basketball around here. Should we hold Kellie Harper to the same standard's as Pat Summitt? Pat was coaching here and winning a national title about 11 years or so ago, so if we are using Wade and Buzz, we have to expect a final four from our women's program about 60% of the time right? As soon as Coach K leaves Duke after this year, do you think they will drop all expectations since they were irrelevant before him? Mark Few made Gonzaga a household name. Do you think them having FF and national title aspirations is too much since 40 years ago their program was irrelevant?

 

[ColinS]

Yes, if he just could have coached a little better. Surely there is something he could have done to ensure his guards hit one more shot than they did. He failed all of VolNation. Don’t even mention the bogus charge on Chandler, or the inexplicable bad luck of the James debacle on the snowbird.

James was not bad luck. That guy has a severe mental block about dropping a point blank layup into a basket. He has missed that shot countless times since he has been at UT. I said out loud to my dad right when he broke into the open court, "he'll miss it".

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I really don't understand so many posters bringing up Wade Houston, Buzz Ball, etc as if that somehow means Barnes has a lower ceiling. Those coaches have been gone for close to 20 and 30 years. What possible influence do they have on the current state of the program?

Over the past 15 or so years, we have had 3 totally different coaches, with totally different styles and systems get to the Sweet 16 and have varying levels of success. Wouldn't that show a pretty good infrastructure in place to have a high level basketball program? To these high school kids, UT has been a pretty successful program for the bulk of their lives. I bet they don't even know who Wade Houston and Buzz Peterson are.

At what point is a program allowed to alter its expectations? Why do the Barnes acolytes act like this is a bad job and act that due to previous coaches failures, this is the best we should ever expect? Is there a time limit on these things? If this program is destined for futility with no chance of being better, then why pay a coach top 5 money if the coach is essentially irrelevant to the results of the program overall? That is basically the argument you are making.

I mean if that's the case, lets just go cheap and fund the more historically successful programs like football and women's basketball around here. Should we hold Kellie Harper to the same standard's as Pat Summitt? Pat was coaching here and winning a national title about 11 years or so ago, so if we are using Wade and Buzz, we have to expect a final four from our women's program about 60% of the time right? As soon as Coach K leaves Duke after this year, do you think they will drop all expectations since they were irrelevant before him? Mark Few made Gonzaga a household name. Do you think them having FF and national title aspirations is too much since 40 years ago their program was irrelevant?

Barnes has built the program as well as any UT coach since Ray Mears and he didn’t inherit great players like Green and Pearl did. Pearl left the infrastructure a hot mess of a dumpster fire. Stop taking what you have now for granted. It can disappear quickly. Be thankful that Barnes isn’t going to exit with TN in NCAA jail. Be thankful that he is adding great players. Be thankful that the players aren’t an embarrassment with off court nonsense.

 

[brockytop]

Love coach Barnes and he can coach as long as he wants here, but he's a sweet 16 coach. Looking pretty good and giving us hope only to look like crap on offense and underachieve when it matters. New team, same old song.

Bet a couple of guys during the Schofield/Williams era Barnes would never advance beyond the Sweet Sixteen. Still confident in those wagers.

 

[Vols8086]

Barnes has built the program as well as any UT coach since Ray Mears and he didn’t inherit great players like Green and Pearl did. Pearl left the infrastructure a hot mess of a dumpster fire. Stop taking what you have now for granted. It can disappear quickly. Be thankful that Barnes isn’t going to exit with TN in NCAA jail. Be thankful that he is adding great players. Be thankful that the players aren’t an embarrassment with off court nonsense.

So we should never alter our expectations? Just be happy to have a program? Seriously, I'd really like to hear a legit answer as to when a program should be allowed and/or justified to raise/lower expectations. What are the steps?

If you don't know, then just say that. Or bypass the question in hopes someone else can come up with an intelligent response that you can agree with if you can't do it on your own.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

So we should never alter our expectations? Just be happy to have a program? Seriously, I'd really like to hear a legit answer as to when a program should be allowed and/or justified to raise/lower expectations. What are the steps?

If you don't know, then just say that. Or bypass the question in hopes someone else can come up with an intelligent response that you can agree with if you can't do it on your own.

What expectations?

If you think we’re entitled to be in the Final Four every year then you’re naive to the world.

Pearl, who is worshipped on here, never accomplished that here.

Truth is, Tennessee has always been a good program in basketball, not great.

Barnes has built a respectable program and the players love him as a coach.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

So we should never alter our expectations? Just be happy to have a program? Seriously, I'd really like to hear a legit answer as to when a program should be allowed and/or justified to raise/lower expectations. What are the steps?

If you don't know, then just say that. Or bypass the question in hopes someone else can come up with an intelligent response that you can agree with if you can't do it on your own.

You’re quite ignorant if you don’t think the program is in a great place right now. Barnes recently posted two of the 4 highest win totals in history. The recruiting has never been better. TN lives in the top 25. They had their best ever AP ranking. The team can compete with every other program in the NCAA. Calm down.

 

[Vols8086]

You’re quite ignorant if you don’t think the program is in a great place right now. Barnes recently posted two of the 4 highest win totals in history. The recruiting has never been better. TN lives in the top 25. They had their best ever AP ranking. The team can compete with every other program in the NCAA. Calm down.

I have never advocated to replace Barnes. I have said I think the program is in great shape. I'm not even ranting about the loss this week.

If you want to respond to me, then respond to what I said. Don't make up a stance for me and then argue against it.

 

[JoAllan]

Same exact winning percentage at Tennessee. The winning meter hasn’t moved much but the paycheck has, lol.

Do you know what the word “exact” means?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I have never advocated to replace Barnes. I have said I think the program is in great shape. I'm not even ranting about the loss this week.

If you want to respond to me, then respond to what I said. Don't make up a stance for me and then argue against it.

The expectations unreasonably skip over a few steps. I’m happy that a program is being built like it hasn’t been since Ray Mears. USCe has a Final Four but they have a ****** basketball program.

Your stance is that TN’s program isn’t in a great place right now and it’s stupid.

 

[calban]

What expectations?

If you think we’re entitled to be in the Final Four every year then you’re naive to the world.

Pearl, who is worshipped on here, never accomplished that here.

Truth is, Tennessee has always been a good program in basketball, not great.

Barnes has built a respectable program and the players love him as a coach.

You think his recruits come here to just get to the tournament? I think if you asked any of them they'd say they came to win championships, national and conference. Barnes has done a good job, but needs to up his game in post season. If you don't agree, your a settler.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

You think his recruits come here to just get to the tournament? I think if you asked any of them they'd say they came to win championships, national and conference. Barnes has done a good job, but needs to up his game in post season. If you don't agree, your a settler.

I think that top recruits pick their school to prepare for the NBA. They sometimes skip the stretch run to avoid the risk of injury.

 

[calban]

I think that top recruits pick their school to prepare for the NBA. They sometimes skip the stretch run to avoid the risk of injury.

I guess I'd expect that answer from some one who believes his nonperformance in post season is 23 or 24 years of bad luck. No offense intended.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I guess I'd expect that answer from some one who believes his nonperformance in post season is 23 or 24 years of bad luck. No offense intended.

Being consistently at the 90th percentile of all programs isn’t non-performance.

It takes some GOOD LUCK to get the Elite Eights and Final Four appearances. TN’s basketball coaching has never been better than it is right now.

 

[cardvolfan]

One thing is for sure about this Barnes back-and-forth. The national media, every time Barnes and his record are discussed, overwhelmingly say he’s a Hall of Famer. There was another one last week, although I can’t remember which one as I watch too much basketball. Regardless, these media guys are almost all well-schooled in college basketball and generally have a reasonable sense of everything basketball.

Everyone is welcome to their own opinion, but those off-the-wall opinions are not shared by most legitimate experts. Sometimes your own family is your worst critic.

 

[calban]

Being consistently at the 90th percentile of all programs isn’t non-performance.

It takes some GOOD LUCK to get the Elite Eights and Final Four appearances. TN’s basketball coaching has never been better than it is right now.

It takes a lot more than luck. That's just the excuse you keep leaning on.
When you get to that level you're up against many coaches that are just as knowledgible as you. He showed in the last game that making in game adjustments isn't his thing. Or was it just bad luck? Yes Losing Alexander in his run here could be considered bad luck. But not sure that would hold water for 17 years in Texas.

 

[cardvolfan]

It takes a lot more luck. That's just the excuse you keep leaning on.
When you get to that level you're up against many coaches that are just as knowledgible as you. He showed in the last game that making in game adjustments isn't his thing. Or was it just bad luck? Yes Losing Alexander in his run here could be considered bad luck. But not sure that would hold water for 17 years in Texas.

Yet, the TTU coach showed no adjustments as well, right? The game was so close and tight that it easily could have gone the other way. What I find weird is this absolute obsession over every move Barnes makes, yet recognition of others failures are a no-mention. Did you like Barnes game plan or adjustments against North Carolina or Colorado?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I’ve watched a lot of UT basketball in my time and am amazed at the Barnes worshippers. He’s not the coach that deserves credit for putting more than 4000 fans in TBA, that credit goes to Bruce Pearl. Barnes has sustained what Pearl built. Now, back to Barnes. I actually “ like” him as a person and am Appreciative he runs a clean program. However, he is paid more than any coach on our campus, and we are a football school, but his results ( 1 sweet 16) do not match his success in the post season. He has had several elite teams that have underperformed come tournament time ( 2018 lost to Loyola Chicago 2nd round; 2019 loss to Purdue Sweet 16; 2021 lost to Oregon St. first round) Need I say more? You can worship Barnes, and I get it, he has a lot of you thinking he is earning his money because we are “ somewhat” relevant during the Regular season . However, in My opinion, it’s time he takes us to the next level like a $5M a year coach SHOULD be expected to do

Loyola and Oregon State both won two more games in the NCAAT after defeating TN. Purdue lost to the eventual national champion in overtime.

Pearl left the basketball program in worse shape than where it was when he started.

The $5 million that your are obsessed with isn’t relevant. That is what it cost to keep the coach from leaving for a blue blood and starting over after matching the highest win total in school history. If throwing money at the program translates to guaranteed unprecedented success then I don’t know how to explain deciding in the late 1970s to build the largest on campus arena for $50 million resulted in two decades of horrible basketball.

 

[calban]

Yet, the TTU coach showed no adjustments as well, right? The game was so close and tight that it easily could have gone the other way. What I find weird is this absolute obsession over every move Barnes makes, yet recognition of others failures are a no-mention. Did you like Barnes game plan or adjustments against North Carolina or Colorado?

Why do people always try to divert attention to another party in a case like this. I was satisfied with most of the season so far. 2 games though and several times last season his guys looked like they didn't have a clue. Why do you think that is?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

It takes a lot more than luck. That's just the excuse you keep leaning on.
When you get to that level you're up against many coaches that are just as knowledgible as you. He showed in the last game that making in game adjustments isn't his thing. Or was it just bad luck? Yes Losing Alexander in his run here could be considered bad luck. But not sure that would hold water for 17 years in Texas.

Purdue had the good luck with a questionable foul called. Loyola had the lucky bounce and they were lucky that KA sat out with an injured hip. The coaches are in place and they have signed the players. The luck has not been good in the NCAAT. Get there often enough and it evens out.

The game adjustments were enough to take a very good opponent to overtime despite experiencing a horrendous shooting performance. The coaching didn’t cost TN the TT game. The execution did.

 

[Vols8086]

The expectations unreasonably skip over a few steps. I’m happy that a program is being built like it hasn’t been since Ray Mears. USCe has a Final Four but they have a ****** basketball program.

Your stance is that TN’s program isn’t in a great place right now and it’s stupid.

You just quoted my post where I said "I think the program is in great shape". So how the hell did you get that my stance is the exact opposite from what I said? Do you even read people's posts at all?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

You just quoted my post where I said "I think the program is in great shape". So how the hell did you get that my stance is the exact opposite from what I said? Do you even read people's posts at all?

You are saying that the program is in great shape but you have higher expectations. Such a bizarre, stupid take.