Rick Barnes discussion (merged)

[bleedingTNorange]

I could accept that a little better for the return we are getting from Barnes. Once Barnes used the UCLA job to get a $1.5M raise from UT, he increased the expectations. So far, Other than 2019, he’s pretty much average at best. Just like at Texas. Guess that’s why they fired him.

So prior to his raise you were applauding Barnes and making posts about him meeting expectations set by his salary?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

I could accept that a little better for the return we are getting from Barnes. Once Barnes used the UCLA job to get a $1.5M raise from UT, he increased the expectations. So far, Other than 2019, he’s pretty much average at best. Just like at Texas. Guess that’s why they fired him.

I don’t think it’s a $1.5 million raise. Barnes was still making under $5mm last year. Was maybe a million plus he didn’t have to pay UT his buyout by staying.

Barnes is also locked into a contract. Without COVID freezing salaries he’d maybe not even be top 10 by now.

But I still don’t get the obsession with the economics of coach’s salaries. UCLA is who’s to blame for Barnes getting more compensation. Plus the hundreds of millions that TN has coming in from the SEC and the NCAA.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

Not one person in this entire forum, pays a cent towards Barne’s salary.

The fact we have grown men obsessing over it is frightening.

 

[1985Vols]

Not one person in this entire forum, pays a cent towards Barne’s salary.

The fact we have grown men obsessing over it is frightening.

You’re delusional. Any fan that donates or purchases tickets to a game is contributing to the bottom line which goes towards paying a coaches salary. Fans have the right to criticize a coach regardless if they pay his salary.

 

[1985Vols]

So prior to his raise you were applauding Barnes and making posts about him meeting expectations set by his salary?

IMO Barnes has never really “ earned” what we have paid him Since his flirtation with UCLA He has won just over 60% of his games and taken a team that had the most talent in the past 40 years of our program to the Sweet 16. He’s proven what his ceiling is in 35 years of coaching, regardless of the talent he has. I just think it’s time UT basketball strives for excellence vs. average. I’m pretty sure we finally have an AD that feels the same way.

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

@Freak

Could you create a new forum for TN Basketball? This one seems to have become the Bruce Pearl is the Bestest and Rick Barnes Makes a Lot of Money Forum.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Vols8086]

IMO Barnes has never really “ earned” what we have paid him. He has won just over 60% of his games and taken a team that had the most talent in the past 40 years of our program to the Sweet 16. He’s proven what his ceiling is in 35 years of coaching, regardless of the talent he has. I just think it’s time UT basketball strives for excellence vs. average. I’m pretty sure we finally have an AD that feels the same way.

I disagree that he has never earned what we have paid him. He earned his money easily by bringing stability to the program and raising the expectations of the program. He has made the overall state of the program better and I think UT basketball is relevant and should be viewed as a top 20ish job. He should get a lot of credit for that and he earned those early checks.

The problem lies in the fact that the program now has higher expectations (which again are attributed to the success Barnes has had here) but im not sure Barnes will reach those consistently. He absolutely earned his salary and he earned a raise. He just hasn't lived up to his new salary. You can be critical of Barnes but at least be honest about the entirety of his tenure.

I also think too many folks think the Grant Williams 3 star with few major offers to 2 time SEC POY is something to be duplicated. Thats so rare, yet so many seem to think thats the blueprint to follow. We may never see that story again.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

IMO Barnes has never really “ earned” what we have paid him. He has won just over 60% of his games and taken a team that had the most talent in the past 40 years of our program to the Sweet 16. He’s proven what his ceiling is in 35 years of coaching, regardless of the talent he has. I just think it’s time UT basketball strives for excellence vs. average. I’m pretty sure we finally have an AD that feels the same way.

Rick Barnes was hired in at $2.25m/yr which was around Top 25 at the time, and those are the results that have been produced. If you don’t think that Barnes has produced cumulative/on average Top 25 results over the past 5 years then that is a whole different topic.

 

[1985Vols]

Rick Barnes was hired in at $2.25m/yr which was around Top 25 at the time, and those are the results that have been produced. If you don’t think that Barnes has produced cumulative/on average Top 25 results over the past 5 years then that is a whole different topic.

He sure was hired as a “ Top 25” coach which is basically what he is. He’s now making Top 5 money but continues to provide Top 25 or less results. Every since he received his $1.5M raise he has provided First round tournament upsets, SEC tournament upsets, barely in the top 25 and has wasted 5* talent. Not worthy of his $5M annual salary

 

[1985Vols]

I disagree that he has never earned what we have paid him. He earned his money easily by bringing stability to the program and raising the expectations of the program. He has made the overall state of the program better and I think UT basketball is relevant and should be viewed as a top 20ish job. He should get a lot of credit for that and he earned those early checks.

The problem lies in the fact that the program now has higher expectations (which again are attributed to the success Barnes has had here) but im not sure Barnes will reach those consistently. He absolutely earned his salary and he earned a raise. He just hasn't lived up to his new salary. You can be critical of Barnes but at least be honest about the entirety of his tenure.

I also think too many folks think the Grant Williams 3 star with few major offers to 2 time SEC POY is something to be duplicated. Thats so rare, yet so many seem to think thats the blueprint to follow. We may never see that story again.

I have never said Barnes wasn’t worth his $2.25M salary we paid him initially. I’ve only said he isn’t worth being a Top 5 paid coach. Grant Williams was to Barnes what Josh Dobbs was to Butch Jones

 

[bleedingTNorange]

He sure was hired as a “ Top 25” coach which is basically what he is. He’s now making Top 5 money but continues to provide Top 25 or less results. Every since he received his $1.5M raise he has provided First round tournament upsets, SEC tournament upsets, barely in the top 25 and has wasted 5* talent. Not worthy of his $5M annual salary

I’m not talking about now, you stated Barnes has never earned his salary at Tennessee yet by your own definition previously and in the post above he did just that.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I have never said Barnes wasn’t worth his $2.25M salary we paid him initially. I’ve only said he isn’t worth being a Top 5 paid coach. Grant Williams was to Barnes what Josh Dobbs was to Butch Jones

So back to my original post which you replied to that Barnes has never earned his salary…

So prior to his raise you were applauding Barnes and making posts about him meeting expectations set by his salary?

 

[calban]

I have never said Barnes wasn’t worth his $2.25M salary we paid him initially. I’ve only said he isn’t worth being a Top 5 paid coach. Grant Williams was to Barnes what Josh Dobbs was to Butch Jones

And the little run Barnes had with Williams forced the rest of the SEC to upgrade which they did in hiring better coaches and better recruiting.
Barnes hasn't seemed to realize or acknowledge the upgrade and continued to try to compete with a 200 pound center. the SEC is a big boy league now and 7 years in Barnes is behind, fielding teams that continue to have games where they look like they don't belong in d5. Whatever is wrong needs to be corrected.

 

[Zues1]

I'll pose this question. Rick Barnes is in year seven. After 10 seasons if he's failed to reach the final four, or even an elite eight.
One regular Sec co- championship ( tied with Auburn), no sec tournament champions will you believe he was a success here?

 

[1985Vols]

I’m not talking about now, you stated Barnes has never earned his salary at Tennessee yet by your own definition previously and in the post above he did just that.

So you agree he is “ not” earning his $5M a year salary?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

And the little run Barnes had with Williams forced the rest of the SEC to upgrade which they did in hiring better coaches and better recruiting.
Barnes hasn't seemed to realize or acknowledge the upgrade and continued to try to compete with a 200 pound center. the SEC is a big boy league now and 7 years in Barnes is behind, fielding teams that continue to have games where they look like they don't belong in d5. Whatever is wrong needs to be corrected.

What a take

 

[lostsheep]

Rumor (unconfirmed) has it Barnes & team had to earn some of that salary on Sunday talking a current player from mailing it in for the rest of the season.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

I'll pose this question. Rick Barnes is in year seven. After 10 seasons if he's failed to reach the final four, or even an elite eight.
One regular Sec co- championship ( tied with Auburn), no sec tournament champions will you believe he was a success here?

depends on what those seasons look like, or are you saying it doesn’t?

If this year and the next 3 are ~25 wins seasons, finishes 2nd in the SEC, gets a 3 seed and makes the S16 all all 3 years then yea, I would consider him a success.

You wouldn’t?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

So you agree he is “ not” earning his $5M a year salary?

Lol, can’t admit it can ya?

 

[1985Vols]

depends on what those seasons look like, or are you saying it doesn’t?

If this year and the next 3 are ~25 wins seasons, finishes 2nd in the SEC, gets a 3 seed and makes the S16 all all 3 years then yea, I would consider him a success.

You wouldn’t?

Finishes 2nd in the SEC? Lol, they won’t even finish in the top 5 of the SEC this season

 

[Zues1]

depends on what those seasons look like, or are you saying it doesn’t?

If this year and the next 3 are ~25 wins seasons, finishes 2nd in the SEC, gets a 3 seed and makes the S16 all all 3 years then yea, I would consider him a success.

You wouldn’t?

So the sweet sixteen is the ceiling? Geez, after a ten year run I hope not.

 

[bleedingTNorange]

Finishes 2nd in the SEC? Lol, they won’t even finish in the top 5 this season

That wasn’t his question, and I’m sure if they did you’ll tell us all how wrong you were, right?

 

[bleedingTNorange]

So the sweet sixteen is the ceiling? Geez, after a ten year run I hope not.

For a program that dates back over 100 years and has made just 1 Elite 8 in its entire history I have a hard time setting the bar at Elite 8 or better.

 

[Big time vol]

depends on what those seasons look like, or are you saying it doesn’t?

If this year and the next 3 are ~25 wins seasons, finishes 2nd in the SEC, gets a 3 seed and makes the S16 all all 3 years then yea, I would consider him a success.

You wouldn’t?

Barnes winning 25 games 3 years in a row? Has Durant been cloned? Because that is the only time he has done it.

 

[Zues1]

For a program that dates back over 100 years and has made just 1 Elite 8 in its entire history I have a hard time setting the bar at Elite 8 or better.

Yeah well it's about time to take that next step isn't it.