Right wing loonies refuse to let others speak, debate

[volinbham]

Pelosi, Hoyer and Reid call protestors "un-American"

Column: 'Un-American' attacks can't derail health care debate - Opinion - USATODAY.com

This administration and current Dem leadership is pathetic.

 

[lawgator1]

a mob? seriously? from what i've seen it looks like most of the people are older, and i really doubt this is an organized mob. please remember it never got violent until obama got his goons(unions) out to counter the people who disagree w/ the healthcare plan. i really hope you aren't watching msnbc and their garbage that this is organized mobs.

My impression from ALL the news coverage (Fox included) is that the first few were indeed organized and in fact were people sent to the meetings by lobbyists for the insurance industry, who have taken advantage of the fear factor out there to convince these folks that its their civic duty to make such a nuisance out of themselves so as to generate media coverage of their "outrage" and thereby increase the fear.

Right; it is right wing loonies against government controlled healthcare. Just like it was right wing loonies at the tax rallies. It couldn't possibly be outraged citizens pushing back. (I would be willing to bet that there are quite a few blue dog democrats who are not very happy)

The fact that you are willing to sit around and slurp up everything this administration throws at us is scarier to me than people who voice their discontent.

The tax rallies are totally different because those were organized to be protests. What we see here is a set of meetings designed to answer questions and calm fears and speculation that are intentionally being overwhelmed to prevent the exchange of information and ideas.

Your last sentence sums up what I'm talking about. Its spreading fear and (mis)characterizing everything the way you do that shows that you just don't know what you are talking about and are falling into the mantra of conservative talk radio.

I have to hand it to the insurance people and their lackeys, known as Rush and Hannity and Fox. They found a formula that works. Get Palin to talk about "Death Committees" and convince feeble old people that they won't get medical tests that they need. Spin it as some kind of effort to kill off the elderly and then send them to meetings designed to tell people the truth and have them drown it out.

Well done.

hrmm, maybe the reason WHY this occured is because the PEOPLE are pissed off about what is going on. Last time I checked, the congressmen and women were supposed to push the agenda of their constituants, not the agenda of the president or of their party. If the people ARE that angry about what is going on, then they are supposed to go to their representative, if their representative does not do anything about it, and are still WAY more concerened with the party or what the presdient wants to push through, its their RIGHT, and DUTY to rise up.

That's what Prudential and Rush want you to believe. You stick to that.

 

[volinbham]

There are people legitimately angry about this potential legislation - they have every right to express that anger. It's galling to hear that they are "un-American" or should simply be quiet.

 

[GASOUTHERNVOL]

My impression from ALL the news coverage (Fox included) is that the first few were indeed organized and in fact were people sent to the meetings by lobbyists for the insurance industry, who have taken advantage of the fear factor out there to convince these folks that its their civic duty to make such a nuisance out of themselves so as to generate media coverage of their "outrage" and thereby increase the fear.





The tax rallies are totally different because those were organized to be protests. What we see here is a set of meetings designed to answer questions and calm fears and speculation that are intentionally being overwhelmed to prevent the exchange of information and ideas.

Your last sentence sums up what I'm talking about. Its spreading fear and (mis)characterizing everything the way you do that shows that you just don't know what you are talking about and are falling into the mantra of conservative talk radio.

I have to hand it to the insurance people and their lackeys, known as Rush and Hannity and Fox. They found a formula that works. Get Palin to talk about "Death Committees" and convince feeble old people that they won't get medical tests that they need. Spin it as some kind of effort to kill off the elderly and then send them to meetings designed to tell people the truth and have them drown it out.

Well done.





That's what Prudential and Rush want you to believe. You stick to that.

"if the government no longer serve the people, then its the people's Providential right (that means God given LG) to rise up against the oppresive government"
-Thomas Jefferson

Congress serves THE PEOPLE!!! the president serves THE PEOPLE, not the other way around,

 

[KB5252]

My impression from ALL the news coverage (Fox included) is that the first few were indeed organized and in fact were people sent to the meetings by lobbyists for the insurance industry, who have taken advantage of the fear factor out there to convince these folks that its their civic duty to make such a nuisance out of themselves so as to generate media coverage of their "outrage" and thereby increase the fear.





The tax rallies are totally different because those were organized to be protests. What we see here is a set of meetings designed to answer questions and calm fears and speculation that are intentionally being overwhelmed to prevent the exchange of information and ideas.

Your last sentence sums up what I'm talking about. Its spreading fear and (mis)characterizing everything the way you do that shows that you just don't know what you are talking about and are falling into the mantra of conservative talk radio.

I have to hand it to the insurance people and their lackeys, known as Rush and Hannity and Fox. They found a formula that works. Get Palin to talk about "Death Committees" and convince feeble old people that they won't get medical tests that they need. Spin it as some kind of effort to kill off the elderly and then send them to meetings designed to tell people the truth and have them drown it out.

Well done.





That's what Prudential and Rush want you to believe. You stick to that.

My problem with the entire situation is that we have Pelosi, Obama and other prominent dems telling us that all these fears are unfounded and it is the right wing spreading disinformation about the bill.

Yet when serious questions were asked about what was known of the bill some of the very same democrats told us the fears were unfounded, after all the bill isn't even completed but yet they assure us these fears are unfounded because they pledge or promise us these fears are not warranted. I believe I remember almost every pledge and promise given by Obama so far to be empty and in most cases an outright lie! Please excuse me if I don't slurp the latest promises he has given us, I choose to believe his much earlier public statements about wanting single payer health care system run by the government.

 

[utvolpj]

You're crazy if you don't think the vast majority of people at the tax rallies and healthcare townhalls aren't right wing conservatives with a political agenda to push.

pretty sure the people holding the meetings have a political agenda to push too.

 

[allvol123]

Pelosi, Hoyer and Reid call protestors "un-American"

Column: 'Un-American' attacks can't derail health care debate - Opinion - USATODAY.com

This administration and current Dem leadership is pathetic.

Agreed.

It is one thing to support poor legislation. You reach a whole other level of idiocy when you start calling out the "average joe's" as Un-American, frauds, and any other thing you can use to demonize them. These dem leaders have reached a point I thought was not possible. It is enjoyable to watch.

 

[T-TownVol]

Anyone that thinks these people that are speaking, and yes YELLING, at the town hall meetings, do not have the right to do so, is an ignorant human being. The people that are condeming the "protesters" are the ones that are blinded by a political agenda.

 

[GASOUTHERNVOL]

if you speak calmly these congress people wont listen, what do you do if someone doesnt listen, you YELL. I think public health care is stupid, plain and simple. I have seen it in practice, I watched my grandfather go through the VA when he had Lou Gherig's. Absolutely terrible... If you say that i have no right to protest, or be angry about it come stop me.

 

[lawgator1]

There are people legitimately angry about this potential legislation - they have every right to express that anger. It's galling to hear that they are "un-American" or should simply be quiet.

No one is saying they should just shut up. They have every right to be heard. BUT SO DO THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS AND GET AND GIVE ANSWERS.

What these protestors are doing is showing up and making it impossible for anyone else but themselves to be heard.

The irony is that people are defending the right of these folks to speak their mind when their entire strategy is to prevent others from exercisign their rights.

My problem with the entire situation is that we have Pelosi, Obama and other prominent dems telling us that all these fears are unfounded and it is the right wing spreading disinformation about the bill.

Yet when serious questions were asked about what was known of the bill some of the very same democrats told us the fears were unfounded, after all the bill isn't even completed but yet they assure us these fears are unfounded because they pledge or promise us these fears are not warranted. I believe I remember almost every pledge and promise given by Obama so far to be empty and in most cases an outright lie! Please excuse me if I don't slurp the latest promises he has given us, I choose to believe his much earlier public statements about wanting single payer health care system run by the government.

Then people should show up, wait their turn, and ask the tough questions. But getting their and taking over by shouting and preventing a real discourse?

That's just staged and I do believe at this point its backfiring.

 

[CountVolcula]

Well to me the Democrats are the ones who are Un-American. Its not American to want to control every aspect of American life. Let me give you a good example of what it will be like. The city I work for, and most of you know that I'm an officer, is self-insured. They put a big amount of money in a fund and have an insurance company administer that money. Ours is BCBS. However, the city has contracted out a local clinic to do your average office visits, so it doesnt cost us anything to go for check-ups or any minor medical problems. When it comes to major medical, we can choose between a low deductable plan or a high deductable plan to keep the monthly costs down. Getting back to the clinic. A fellow officer, just last week, had a very bad headache and sore throat and went to the clinic to get checked. Well, the nurse wasnt there and was late so he had to wait for two hours until they decided to come in. Then, when he got back there, she looked him over and said " Well, it looks like strep" and he asked her to give him a shot. She replied " WE dont think you need a shot" and he asked for some antibiotics. She replied " No, I think WE will just let it runs its course". He then asked if he could get some cough medicine for the cough he had and everytime he coughed it made his throat hurt more. She replied " WE want you to cough". He finally told her to kiss his a** and called another doctor, out of network, to see him. He went to that doctor, which did the strep test, told him he had strep, gave him a shot, gave him some antibiotics and told him a good over-the-counter cough medicine that would help. He had to pay out-of-pocket for that. This is the bulls*** that is gonna happen with government controlled Health Care, mark my words. They will tell you what and when they are going to treat you but the kicker is you wont have that option the officer had, going to another doctor, cause they will all be controlled by the Health Csar. This type of crap happens all the time with us, because the city gives the clinic a certain amount of money and the city tells them not to go over and to cut costs, at the expense of the employees health.

 

[lawgator1]

Incidentally, thought you guys would want to know this.

There is a conservative activist in St. Louis who showed up for one of these townhalls and got into a fight with some union members. He had some medical bills.

He is accepting donations to pay the bils because he was recently laid off and therefore has no health insurance!!

Brilliant.

 

[GASOUTHERNVOL]

No one is saying they should just shut up. They have every right to be heard. BUT SO DO THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS AND GET AND GIVE ANSWERS.

What these protestors are doing is showing up and making it impossible for anyone else but themselves to be heard.

that what hard left jack@$$es were doing to conservative speakers soooo its ok when they do it, but when the other side does it its wrong?

 

[T-TownVol]

Incidentally, thought you guys would want to know this.

There is a conservative activist in St. Louis who showed up for one of these townhalls and got into a fight with some union members. He had some medical bills.

He is accepting donations to pay the bils because he was recently laid off and therefore has no health insurance!!

Brilliant.

You better go back and read a non-liberal slant on this story. These were union thugs that kicked his ass because they did not like the things he had to say.

 

[KB5252]

No one is saying they should just shut up. They have every right to be heard. BUT SO DO THE PEOPLE WHO WANT TO ASK QUESTIONS AND GET AND GIVE ANSWERS.

What these protestors are doing is showing up and making it impossible for anyone else but themselves to be heard.

The irony is that people are defending the right of these folks to speak their mind when their entire strategy is to prevent others from exercisign their rights.






Then people should show up, wait their turn, and ask the tough questions. But getting their and taking over by shouting and preventing a real discourse?

That's just staged and I do believe at this point its backfiring.

It is backfiring but not at those who you suggest. Obama is taking a hit here as is the support for this idea of government controlled health care. They have heard his past statements as well as those of his advisers and they see the true agenda here.

No one in congress can explain what exactly is in this bill because it isn't completed yet, or so they say. Yet they try to tell us with absolute certainty what this bill will not do. We are to believe this even when they tried to ram this bill through without proper vetting until they realized the opposition was too strong! One thing I have learned from my years on earth is to never trust a politician at their word. Especially when they have shown they have no problem breaking pledges or promises at every turn to advance an agenda the way Pelosi and Obama have.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Don't get me wrong, the First Amendment protects the theoretical right of these thoughtless drooling fools to do what they are doing at the town halls (except for the ones where they start pushing and shoving --- or worse).

But it is disturbing to me, and should be to you, that their solution/reaction to meetings where Congresspeople can sit down with their constituents and talk about health care is to completely drown it out. They whine if people try to drown out their efforts to drown out others.

Whenever Democratic activists engage in this kind of tactic, I think they look like they are afraid for the truth to come out and that they battle the exchange of ideas by preventing the discussion in the first place.

 

[lawgator1]

that what hard left jack@$$es were doing to conservative speakers soooo its ok when they do it, but when the other side does it its wrong?

No. If left wing activists do it under similar circumstances then that is also wrong and I criticize it, as well.

We often complain that our elected representatives do not sit down with us to talk about issues dirrectly. Well, here we have a situation where they are trying to do that and are just flatly being shouted down.

Whether tis Republicans doing it to Democracts or Democrats doing it to Republicans, it is anti-democratic (small "d") because its goal is to stifle discussion and debate, not promote it.

It is backfiring but not at those who you suggest. Obama is taking a hit here as is the support for this idea of government controlled health care. They have heard his past statements as well as those of his advisers and they see the true agenda here.

No one in congress can explain what exactly is in this bill because it isn't completed yet, or so they say. Yet they try to tell us with absolute certainty what this bill will not do. We are to believe this even when they tried to ram this bill through without proper vetting until they realized the opposition was too strong! One thing I have learned from my years on earth is to never trust a politician at their word. Especially when they have shown they have no problem breaking pledges or promises at every turn to advance an agenda the way Pelosi and Obama have.

It may not backfrie in the sense of causing people to support the health care reform bill. But it does turn a lot of people off to the heavy-handed arm of Republican politics and I think galvanizes the left and drives people in the middle to the Democrats because it lends itself to an image of Repuiblicans and conservatives as intolerant of the very thing they are demanding here, which is free discussion.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

No. If left wing activists do it under similar circumstances then that is also wrong and I criticize it, as well.

We often complain that our elected representatives do not sit down with us to talk about issues dirrectly. Well, here we have a situation where they are trying to do that and are just flatly being shouted down.

Whether tis Republicans doing it to Democracts or Democrats doing it to Republicans, it is anti-democratic (small "d") because its goal is to stifle discussion and debate, not promote it.




It may not backfrie in the sense of causing people to support the health care reform bill. But it does turn a lot of people off to the heavy-handed arm of Republican politics and I think galvanizes the left and drives people in the middle to the Democrats because it lends itself to an image of Repuiblicans and conservatives as intolerant of the very thing they are demanding here, which is free discussion.

:lolabove:

 

[KB5252]

No. If left wing activists do it under similar circumstances then that is also wrong and I criticize it, as well.

We often complain that our elected representatives do not sit down with us to talk about issues dirrectly. Well, here we have a situation where they are trying to do that and are just flatly being shouted down.

Whether tis Republicans doing it to Democracts or Democrats doing it to Republicans, it is anti-democratic (small "d") because its goal is to stifle discussion and debate, not promote it.




It may not backfrie in the sense of causing people to support the health care reform bill. But it does turn a lot of people off to the heavy-handed arm of Republican politics and I think galvanizes the left and drives people in the middle to the Democrats because it lends itself to an image of Repuiblicans and conservatives as intolerant of the very thing they are demanding here, which is free discussion.

There are being heavy handed in response to the heavy handed approach the president and congress have taken on this issue. They have flat out told America that this will pass and there is nothing that can be done about it.

This is where Obama and the dems in the majority are making a huge mistake. By telling the American people that the opposition are being unreasonable and calling the movement astroturf they are alienating those who oppose this bill.....which is the majority of the Americans by the way. This was Bush's downfall, the people turned on him over the Iraq war issue, he didn't listen and the people went to the left looking for a correction in politics. Now you have Obama not listening to the people and the same is very likely to happen here.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

There are being heavy handed in response to the heavy handed approach the president and congress have taken on this issue. They have flat out told America that this will pass and there is nothing that can be done about it.

This is where Obama and the dems in the majority are making a huge mistake. By telling the American people that the opposition are being unreasonable and calling the movement astroturf they are alienating those who oppose this bill.....which is the majority of the Americans by the way. This was Bush's downfall, the people turned on him over the Iraq war issue, he didn't listen and the people went to the left looking for a correction in politics. Now you have Obama not listening to the people and the same is very likely to happen here.

LG wants healthcare to pass, it is a cash cow for his law firm.

k:

 

[GASOUTHERNVOL]

:lolabove:

:lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove: :lolabove:

 

[T-TownVol]

The meetings are civil at first. It is when the elected official can not answer simple questions or in alot of cases, REFUSES to answer questions, that the people start getting upset.
The meetings are set up to answer only the questions that they WANT to answer.

 

[rjd970]

There are being heavy handed in response to the heavy handed approach the president and congress have taken on this issue. They have flat out told America that this will pass and there is nothing that can be done about it.

This is where Obama and the dems in the majority are making a huge mistake. By telling the American people that the opposition are being unreasonable and calling the movement astroturf they are alienating those who oppose this bill.....which is the majority of the Americans by the way. This was Bush's downfall, the people turned on him over the Iraq war issue, he didn't listen and the people went to the left looking for a correction in politics. Now you have Obama not listening to the people and the same is very likely to happen here.

Strictly from my own point of view...and I would consider myself a blue dog democrat that opposes this HC bill...it is the right's reaction and tactics here that turns me away from the GOP. I support the GOP here is as much as there is a common goal to be had with this issue, but it doesn't mean I don't find the methods they are employing petty and immature.

Ever since the innaguration is has been a steady stream of whining and complaining. Granted, there are legitimate points and very good arguments as to how Obama is recking the economy, but unfortunately it gets drowned out by those simply wanting to b1tch and attack in any way they can.

 

[KB5252]

Strictly from my own point of view...and I would consider myself a blue dog democrat that opposes this HC bill...it is the right's reaction and tactics here that turns me away from the GOP. I support the GOP here is as much as there is a common goal to be had with this issue, but it doesn't mean I don't find the methods they are employing petty and immature.

Ever since the innaguration is has been a steady stream of whining and complaining. Granted, there are legitimate points and very good arguments as to how Obama is recking the economy, but unfortunately it gets drowned out by those simply wanting to b1tch and attack in any way they can.

This isn't in any way a new phenomenon. I want to ask you a serious question. Did the left and their whining and b@%*!!#* at every opportunity turn you away? It didn't seem to hurt the left at all, in some cases I think it helped them. The same will hold true with Obama IMO. As partisan and agenda driven as Bush looked to the majority of the American people Obama looks much worse (if people are being honest about the situation).

 

[lawgator1]

The meetings are civil at first. It is when the elected official can not answer simple questions or in alot of cases, REFUSES to answer questions, that the people start getting upset.
The meetings are set up to answer only the questions that they WANT to answer.

Thats just a blatant misrepresentation of the facts in many of these case. The speaker is not being given a CHANCE to answer the question -- the whole idea in fact in the ones I've seen has been to prevent the answer from being heard by shouting and yelling so as to distrupt the event. And sometimes even to prevent a question from being asked in the first place.