Romney's IRA: Investment gurus can you explain this to me?

#126
#126
lawgator1 said:
That's hilarious.

Even the conservatives say that is a jaw dropping number that none of them can explain, except via the mechanism discussed earlier, which is where he and Bain set the price one day, knowing the market price is many times that, and then shoving it into the IRA to avoid taxes.

So far, that is the only explanation anyone has been able to come up with. And it turns out that could cause Romney huge problems since evidently there is a reg that you can't use that trickeration in retirement accounts.

Uh oh ....

Could that be why we aren't getting his tax returns?

As the National Review -- a very right wing GOP magazine says in its recent editorial -- we don;t want another Nixon tax dodge guy in the White House.
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Trickeration? - could get him in huge trouble?

Do you think he's been witholding his returns from the IRS as well?
 
#127
#127
"...Investment gurus can you explain this to me?"

The question in the topic has been answered well many times. The correct question should have been "Can I understand the answer?" The answer to that question is abundantly clear. LG doesn't like or understand the answers he's getting because they don't meet his idea of fairness. Fairness would have required Romney to work his ass off, keep 10% of the profits and give the Federal government 90% or a community organizer (guess that's now a redundancy) so they could distribute them fairly.
 
#128
#128
BigPapaVol said:
Stop now. I have personally worked for folks that turned over this kind of return and did so more than once. They actually had $300k turn into one billion. That's what makes the private equity world go 'round. If you have people telling you it's unfathomable, they're idiots. Find a new friend.
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$300,000 into $1,000,000,000 ???

Did they pay taxes ? Or was that in the friendly confines of an IRA a la Mitt Romney ?
 
#132
#132
Article on CNN today said Romney is going to only release his last 2 years tax returns, 2011 and 2010.
Even though the practice of full financial disclosure was started by his father when he ran for President in the 1950's.

Also said he had a swedish bank account at one point that was used to invest in the declining dollar. It was speculated that was something he did not want to disclose in his returns.

TIFIW

Why won't Romney release more tax returns? - CNN.com



News: Romney campaign expected to launch multipronged effort to rebut attacks

Given Romney's financial sophistication, it has been assumed by some that there cannot be any tax skeletons in his closet. His reluctance to disclose past returns, however, undermines that assumption. We are left with the difficult task of plausibly reconstructing his financial record based on the one full return that he has released. The result is troubling.


Mitt Romney is extraordinarily wealthy, but that is not a justification for nondisclosure. He has made no secret of his wealth, and required campaign disclosures already hint at its magnitude. While Romney may have dissembled about when he actually left Bain Capital, he has been disassociated with the firm long enough that he cannot argue that his tax returns will reveal proprietary secrets.


Nor is this just an exercise in financial titillation or gossip. Disclosure goes to the heart of the truthfulness with which a nominee engages the American people, and it assures us that he in fact has comported himself before the election with the high moral character we associate with a future president.


Romney's 2010 tax return, when combined with his FEC disclosure, reveals red flags that raise serious tax compliance questions with respect to his possible tax minimization strategies in earlier years. The release in October of his 2011 return will at best act as a distraction from these questions.
So, what are the issues?


The first is Romney's Swiss ban
k account. Most presidential candidates don't think it appropriate to bet that the U.S. dollar will lose value by speculating in Swiss Francs, which is basically the rationale offered by the trustee of Romney's "blind" trust for opening this account. What's more, if you really want just to speculate on foreign currencies, you don't need a Swiss bank account to do so.
The Swiss bank account raises tax compliance questions, too.


The account seems to have been closed early in 2010, but was the income in fact reported on earlier tax returns? Did the Romneys timely file the required disclosure forms to the Treasury Department (so-called FBAR reports)?
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#133
#133
OMG! Congressional hypocrisy! Like discovering snow in the Artic.

Most members of Congress keep their tax returns secret - Nation - MiamiHerald.com

Reid: "Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid blasted Mitt Romney Thursday in personal and biting terms, so to speak, telling reporters the presumed Republican presidential nominee could not be confirmed as "dog catcher" by the Senate."

But you can be elected majority leader.
 
#134
#134
Redstater said:
OMG! Congressional hypocrisy! Like discovering snow in the Artic.

Most members of Congress keep their tax returns secret - Nation - MiamiHerald.com

Reid: "Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid blasted Mitt Romney Thursday in personal and biting terms, so to speak, telling reporters the presumed Republican presidential nominee could not be confirmed as "dog catcher" by the Senate."

But you can be elected majority leader.
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:whistling:

Pelosi aides refused, saying she's disclosed all that Congress requires.

Read more here: Most members of Congress keep their tax returns secret - Nation - MiamiHerald.com
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but that's not the standard...
 
#138
#138
WA_Vol said:
He moved money to a swiss bank account to avoid paying taxes is what it sounds like.
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Exactly how did he avoid taxes moving money to Swiss bank accounts? I'm going to pass on to my CPA and I would appreciate the planning so he doesn't charge me for it.

I had to open a bank account in Northern Ireland in order to make an investment in a small operating company. Under penalty of committing a felony, I had to disclose that I had signature responsibility on the account. I wasn't shipping jobs overseas, just trying to create a market for products we were building in TN. Unlike Obama's investments overseas, any loss I suffer comes out of my pocket. I guess I'll get to deduct the loss if there is one to the extent I have capital gains elsewhere or they don't exceed $3000 in any one year.
 
#140
#140
WA_Vol said:
He moved money to a swiss bank account to avoid paying taxes is what it sounds like.
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From the article

The first is Romney's Swiss ban
k account. Most presidential candidates don't think it appropriate to bet that the U.S. dollar will lose value by speculating in Swiss Francs, which is basically the rationale offered by the trustee of Romney's "blind" trust for opening this account. What's more, if you really want just to speculate on foreign currencies, you don't need a Swiss bank account to do so.
The Swiss bank account raises tax compliance questions, too.
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The first point is absurd - how do they know what "most presidential candidates" think? I bet virtually all the presidential candidates of the last 20 years have investments in funds that somehow "bet against the U.S."

The last point is what LG keeps blathering about - notice they don't say what the compliance issues are. Also, there is zero evidence that the IRS sees any compliance issues.

That whole article begins with a premise that everything he did was shady.
 
#141
#141
The whole he has to release his tax returns otherwise there's something funny in them... You know who has his returns? The IRS. They aren't waiting for him to provide them. If you really think him releasing them is going to open Pandora's box then you must think gov't bureaucracies suck. This is particularly hackish.
 
#142
#142
Weezy said:
The whole he has to release his tax returns otherwise there's something funny in them... You know who has his returns? The IRS. They aren't waiting for him to provide them. If you really think him releasing them is going to open Pandora's box then you must think gov't bureaucracies suck. This is particularly hackish.
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It's what I've been trying to say - the real authority on whether or not he fictionalized values or mischaracterized income or evaded taxes has all the evidence they need and they haven't legitimized one of these claims.
 
#143
#143
BigPapaVol said:
did you read that piece of trash you quoted? Speculative crap makes LG sound sophisticated.
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I agree it is completely speculative. But ask yourself why would someone not release their previous year's tax returns, when his father is the one who established the precedent.
volinbham said:
From the article



The first point is absurd - how do they know what "most presidential candidates" think? I bet virtually all the presidential candidates of the last 20 years have investments in funds that somehow "bet against the U.S."

The last point is what LG keeps blathering about - notice they don't say what the compliance issues are. Also, there is zero evidence that the IRS sees any compliance issues.

That whole article begins with a premise that everything he did was shady.
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I think the point was, it's a little disingenious for someone to but money in a foreign account to avoid a tax penalty, while campaigning on issues like tax reform. And like the article says, no one really knows what the bank account was used for because he's kept those tax returns private.

For someone as bright as Romney is, concerning taxes and money, to not want to release tax returns during the period of this swiss bank account seems a little suspicious.
 
#144
#144
Weezy said:
The whole he has to release his tax returns otherwise there's something funny in them... You know who has his returns? The IRS. They aren't waiting for him to provide them. If you really think him releasing them is going to open Pandora's box then you must think gov't bureaucracies suck. This is particularly hackish.
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No one thinks he did anything illegal IMO. He's too bright to do that and run for President. But if he put large sums of money in foreign accounts to avoid tax penalties, even though it was legal at the time, does not put him in a good light when the subject of tax reform comes up in the campaign and he knows it. He would be the reason for tax reform, tax loopholes that allow wealthy people an advantage most Americans don't get. I think thats the issue.
 
#145
#145
Someone who opens a Swiss Bank account to avoid taxes knows more than I do about them, so whom I to judge if he wants them reformed.

I won't argue that Romney is going to close loopholes or exemptions. There's a good chance he won't. But Obama isn't antcy to do it either.
 
#146
#146
Weezy said:
Someone who opens a Swiss Bank account to avoid taxes knows more than I do about them, so whom I to judge if he wants them reformed.

I won't argue that Romney is going to close loopholes or exemptions. There's a good chance he won't. But Obama isn't antcy to do it either.
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That's because they both gettin' PAID son.

Real tax reform is a pipe dream (I would personally like to see a move to a VAT-centric system). Republicans talk a tough game about it, but I don't buy that it will ever get accomplished. Both parties will just continue to bicker about rates.
 
#147
#147
volinbham said:
It's what I've been trying to say - the real authority on whether or not he fictionalized values or mischaracterized income or evaded taxes has all the evidence they need and they haven't legitimized one of these claims.
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How do you know that?

If he was audited and had to pay back taxes and/or penalties I don't believe that would be public record automatically. If he released his returns, we might be able to dispel that possibility. Alas, he will not do do. Is it an audit he is trying to hide?

I would think if that happened there would be a lot of questions. If he were heavily fined or penalized, some people might in fact view it as basically akin to criminal and he'd take a massive hit in the polls. Probably not recoverable.

Also, of course, we know that very few people are actually audited, or audited correctly. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this context.
 
#148
#148
volinbham said:
It's what I've been trying to say - the real authority on whether or not he fictionalized values or mischaracterized income or evaded taxes has all the evidence they need and they haven't legitimized one of these claims.
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And if Obama and his campaign had any proof, or inkling of impropriety with MR's finances, none of this would have ever been talked about by them.

There would have been just another mysterious leak...
 
#149
#149
lawgator1 said:
How do you know that?

If he was audited and had to pay back taxes and/or penalties I don't believe that would be public record automatically. If he released his returns, we might be able to dispel that possibility. Alas, he will not do do. Is it an audit he is trying to hide?

I would think if that happened there would be a lot of questions. If he were heavily fined or penalized, some people might in fact view it as basically akin to criminal and he'd take a massive hit in the polls. Probably not recoverable.

Also, of course, we know that very few people are actually audited, or audited correctly. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in this context.
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Have you ever been audited? The difference between getting fined and or penalized vs not, can be a difference of interpritation between accountants.

So no someone being hit by the IRS (non crimminal) would not change my view of them.
 
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