Ron Paul Can't Win

#352
#352
utvolpj said:
receiving stolen goods can still be illegal even if you didn't participate in the robbery
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Right. Except collecting taxes is not robbery and are earmarks are not stolen goods.

utvolpj said:
I've said RP would probably be #2 on my list but the Grand Savior act from some of his disciples gets quite old
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I am not a "disciple" of RP. I would vote for him over the other candidates but I am not madly in love with him as other posters are.

If you can't fix the broken game; don't hate the player, hate the game.
 
#353
#353
This guy should run for president. Though I'm not religious anymore, you'll see where I get my affinity for freedom.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjkStnqWsqQ[/youtube]
 
#354
#354
PKT_VOL said:
Right. Except collecting taxes is not robbery and are earmarks are not stolen goods.
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I consider the amount of money being taken from the American people and absolutely wasted by our elected officials to be theft. You can disagree but to me the word describes the process exactly
 
#356
#356
utvolpj said:
I consider the amount of money being taken from the American people and absolutely wasted by our elected officials to be theft. You can disagree but to me the word describes the process exactly
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Theft is a strong word. Waste is subjective. I am just as disgusted with the politics and irresponsibility of Washington by both parties as you are.
 
#357
#357
PKT_VOL said:
Theft is a strong word. Waste is subjective. I am just as disgusted with the politics and irresponsibility of Washington by both parties as you are.
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actually not strong enough IMO. It's money that is forcibly removed from my paycheck and given to people who distribute it out to their biggest donors. And since they make the rules it's all laundered clean. Perfect system as long as you're on the inside
 
#358
#358
utvolpj said:
actually not strong enough IMO. It's money that is forcibly removed from my paycheck and given to people who distribute it out to their biggest donors. And since they make the rules it's all laundered clean. Perfect system as long as you're on the inside
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And you rail on the one guy who consistently votes against the insiders.
 
#359
#359
nbakerld said:
And you rail on the one guy who consistently votes against the insiders.
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I do not rail on him I just point out inconsistencies. He is also still able to work the system and get money even though he's against all those people. Funny how it works out like that
 
#360
#360
utvolpj said:
actually not strong enough IMO. It's money that is forcibly removed from my paycheck and given to people who distribute it out to their biggest donors. And since they make the rules it's all laundered clean. Perfect system as long as you're on the inside
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Taxes are apart of the general social contract between the people and their government to promote the greater good of the people. The people use the roads, bridges, buildings, and schools which are paid by the tax dollars. It is not thief. Not even close. This is not to say that there isn't thief that goes on at the government level. That is mostly laundering, as you alluded to. Look at the "green" investment of this administration as an example. However, to imply that all earmarks are thief is nothing more than interjecting your subjective notion of waste. I am guilty of such thoughts as well from time to time.
 
#361
#361
PJ and I don't see eye to eye on many things (mainly because the guy is like 6 foot 5 or something and when he's not standing he's on his belly in the desert killing things) but he is right ... it's theft.
 
#362
#362
It's theft. And Ron Paul tries to ear mark what was stolen from his district and bring it back home.
 
#363
#363
PKT_VOL said:
Right. Except collecting taxes is not robbery and are earmarks are not stolen goods.



I am not a "disciple" of RP. I would vote for him over the other candidates but I am not madly in love with him as other posters are.

If you can't fix the broken game; don't hate the player, hate the game.
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Taxes absolutely are theft. Does that mean I think there should be NO Taxes at all? No of course not. Obviously there are things we have to pay for. However, when I look at the amount of shat taken out of my check combined with local and state taxes, it is absurd. It's no wonder the middle class is disappearing. The gov't is squeezing them to death trying to make everybody poor.
 
#364
#364
You and I may think that taxes are absurd, we may not agree with what taxes are spent on, but it is not thief.
 
#366
#366
PKT_VOL said:
You and I may think that taxes are absurd, we may not agree with what taxes are spent on, but it is not thief.
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taxes over and above the powers of the fed govt are theft. There are certain things they do that require input from all Americans (actually about 50% but that's fine). We are not in this huge hole because they are building extra roads or bridges

nbakerld said:
It's theft. And Ron Paul tries to ear mark what was stolen from his district and bring it back home.
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which I could probably accept as long as the ledger hit zero each year
 
#367
#367
utvolpj said:
taxes over and above the powers of the fed govt are theft. There are certain things they do that require input from all Americans (actually about 50% but that's fine). We are not in this huge hole because they are building extra roads or bridges

which I could probably accept as long as the ledger hit zero each year
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I hear that. If we only had earmarks to worry about, we'd be fine. Though I wish they didn't exist, earmarks are one time deals. It's a decade of war that racks up $1 Trillion+ in debt that really kills the budget. It's programs that never end, like medicare that kill the budget. It's agencies like homeland security that kill the budget.
 
#368
#368
nbakerld said:
What do you call it when money is taken forcibly from its owner?
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Is it repaid? That's the problem with saying it's thief. Yes, anybody can attempt to sound clever by saying taxes are thief because taxes are levied by the force of a gun if need be. However, you enjoy the fruits of those tax dollars every day. It is not thief. Power will always be abused. There is definitely money laundering and pure waste (in my eyes). However, I recognize that waste is subjective. My view of waste will be different than my fellow citizens. Luckily we have elections to guide the general direction of tax collection and spending. Unfortunately, our fellow citizens are too dumb to realize they can't not have their cake and eat it too.
 
#369
#369
PKT_VOL said:
You and I may think that taxes are absurd, we may not agree with what taxes are spent on, but it is not thief.
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Money is taken from you (tax) and usually given to someone else. If you don't pay your taxes what happens? They throw you in jail or take more shat from you.

That is the definition of theft. Doesn't matter if an individual does it with a gun or the gov't does it by threatening jail time.
 
#370
#370
PKT_VOL said:
Is it repaid? That's the problem with saying it's thief. Yes, anybody can attempt to sound clever by saying taxes are thief because taxes are levied by the force of a gun if need be. However, you enjoy the fruits of those tax dollars every day. It is not thief. Power will always be abused. There is definitely money laundering and pure waste (in my eyes). However, I recognize that waste is subjective. My view of waste will be different than my fellow citizens. Luckily we have elections to guide the general direction of tax collection and spending. Unfortunately, our fellow citizens are too dumb to realize they can't not have their cake and eat it too.
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The fruits of those tax dollars are paying for some crackhead to take home his PS3 that he paid for with his EBT card while driving a Cadillac Escalade to the store.
 
#371
#371
utvolpj said:
taxes over and above the powers of the fed govt are theft. There are certain things they do that require input from all Americans (actually about 50% but that's fine). We are not in this huge hole because they are building extra roads or bridges
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Mostly agree except it is not theft. It might be unconstitutional in our eyes (people who interpret the constitution in a strict manner). We both believe the government is too big and too invasive. We both believe Washington and State government budget are out of control. Those costs are then passed on to us. We definitely overpay in taxes from what we ought to be paying in taxes. Again this is not theft. We do enjoy the fruits of those spending programs whether we want to or not.
 
#372
#372
PKT_VOL said:
Mostly agree except it is not theft. It might be unconstitutional in our eyes (people who interpret the constitution in a strict manner). We both believe the government is too big and too invasive. We both believe Washington and State government budget are out of control. Those costs are then passed on to us. We definitely overpay in taxes from what we ought to be paying in taxes. Again this is not theft. We do enjoy the fruits of those spending programs whether we want to or not.
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How do I enjoy the fruits of the EBT program if I'm not on said program? Why is EBT better than local charity? How much overhead is in EBT compared to a local charity that feeds people?

It is theft when money is taken from me to directly benefit another single individual and not the community.
 
#373
#373
PKT_VOL said:
Mostly agree except it is not theft. It might be unconstitutional in our eyes (people who interpret the constitution in a strict manner). We both believe the government is too big and too invasive. We both believe Washington and State government budget are out of control. Those costs are then passed on to us. We definitely overpay in taxes from what we ought to be paying in taxes. Again this is not theft. We do enjoy the fruits of those spending programs whether we want to or not.
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if it's unconstitutional then they are not authorized to remove it from my paycheck. If someone besides the US govt did it they would be locked up. When the US govt does it they get promoted
 
#374
#374
PKT_VOL said:
Mostly agree except it is not theft. It might be unconstitutional in our eyes (people who interpret the constitution in a strict manner). We both believe the government is too big and too invasive. We both believe Washington and State government budget are out of control. Those costs are then passed on to us. We definitely overpay in taxes from what we ought to be paying in taxes. Again this is not theft. We do enjoy the fruits of those spending programs whether we want to or not.
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I understand what you are saying but it seems to me you are caught up on just semantics here.

I def disagree that I see the "fruits of those tax dollars" everyday. I see a gov't system that is basically an employment agency for a bunch of people.
 
#375
#375
PKT_VOL said:
Mostly agree except it is not theft. It might be unconstitutional in our eyes (people who interpret the constitution in a strict manner). We both believe the government is too big and too invasive. We both believe Washington and State government budget are out of control. Those costs are then passed on to us. We definitely overpay in taxes from what we ought to be paying in taxes. Again this is not theft. We do enjoy the fruits of those spending programs whether we want to or not.
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So if your neighbor forcibly takes money from you to put on a fireworks show, you wouldn't call it theft, because you are able to enjoy the fruits of his spending?
 
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