School principal refuses to give teen's phone back to dad

#201
#201
Boca Vol said:
Volly,

I don't know what you do for a living. But if you're in charge of rules for 1000 students you have to have black or white.

If you try to say, "it's ok in this case but not ok in that case" your life will be a living hell!

That's why policies are in place for situations like this. In a "normal" circumstance should the school keep the phone, no. But you can't be wishy-washy when you have 1000 students.
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I've been in charge of 40 employees working swing shifts for a manufacturer. That's as close as I've come to "1000 students". But I guess you've been in charge of 1000 students?
 
#202
#202
vollygirl said:
I'm not hiding behind anything. I didn't send my kids to school with a gun, and they didn't have access to a gun. So I guess I can't speak intelligently about a child who does. You win?
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The bottom line is you're hiding the "property" argument whether it's a calculator, lunch money, shoes, phones, or guns. Is all property the same? NO! That's the point.

Phones, knives, & guns have policies whereas lunch money and shoes don't.

vollygirl said:
I've been in charge of 40 employees working swing shifts for a manufacturer. That's as close as I've come to "1000 students". But I guess you've been in charge of 1000 students?
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When I was in my mid 20's I was a marketing director for a mall in Raleigh. I wanted to do a promo that cutoff at noon to entice early shopping. The upper management simply smiled and let me run with it. It was a disaster because I didn't define what constituted as the "official" cutoff time. Was it in line by noon or the receipts sale time by noon. Lesson learned! :thud:

So think of those swing shifts you were in charge of....what were the rules? Were some people allowed to come in later than others? I'm pretty sure you had parameters around what was acceptable and what wasn't.
 
#204
#204
Cdywolfe said:
No... Because you just compared bringing a cell phone and a gun into a school. Regardless of your stance on this issue, that's just a silly analogy.
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No, you're defending the father because it's his "property".

If you want to go that route, just about everything on the kid is the father's property.

If a kid brought a gun to school it would, most likely, be the father's property.

Where do you draw the line? I'm pretty sure the school has drawn the line by having enforcements for phones and weapons.
 
#205
#205
Boca Vol said:
No, you're defending the father because it's his "property".

If you want to go that route, just about everything on the kid is the father's property.

If a kid brought a gun to school it would, most likely, be the father's property.

Where do you draw the line? I'm pretty sure the school has drawn the line by having enforcements for phones and weapons.
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If it's a 1700s flint lock pistol is he expelled for bringing a gun? We can get real stupid with this if you want.
 
#206
#206
Boca Vol said:
No, you're defending the father because it's his "property".

If you want to go that route, just about everything on the kid is the father's property.

If a kid brought a gun to school it would, most likely, be the father's property.

Where do you draw the line? I'm pretty sure the school has drawn the line by having enforcements for phones and weapons.
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I'll defend the school for taking the phone away.

I'll defend the father for his actions when they refused to release it.

In one case the school was right. In one case they are wrong. Cut it any way you want, it is private property that was confiscated without rule of law on their side.
 
#207
#207
Boca Vol said:
No, you're defending the father because it's his "property".

If you want to go that route, just about everything on the kid is the father's property.

If a kid brought a gun to school it would, most likely, be the father's property.

Where do you draw the line? I'm pretty sure the school has drawn the line by having enforcements for phones and weapons.
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Wrong again… I've made absolutely no mention of my stance on this issue. I simply remember thinking earlier that your analogy about towing the cars couldn't have been more asinine. I thought it was funny that you showed back up and proved me wrong.
 
#208
#208
Cdywolfe said:
Wrong again… I've made absolutely no mention of my stance on this issue. I simply remember thinking earlier that your analogy about towing the cars couldn't have been more asinine. I thought it was funny that you showed back up and proved me wrong.
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I did notice he wouldn't reply to my car analogy.
 
#209
#209
Boca Vol said:
No, you're defending the father because it's his "property".

If you want to go that route, just about everything on the kid is the father's property.

If a kid brought a gun to school it would, most likely, be the father's property.

Where do you draw the line? I'm pretty sure the school has drawn the line by having enforcements for phones and weapons.
Click to expand...

Actually the reason the gun analogy fails is because it's got nothing to do with "school policy" but rather the law. I'm sure it varies in the details from state to state but in TN it's a Class E felony. That firearm is getting confiscated as evidence by law enforcement.

I'm 1000% behind the idea that a school cannot confiscate and keep private property. ANY property.
 
#210
#210
hndog609 said:
Actually the reason the gun analogy fails is because it's got nothing to do with "school policy" but rather the law. I'm sure it varies in the details from state to state but in TN it's a Class E felony. That firearm is getting confiscated as evidence by law enforcement.

I'm 1000% behind the idea that a school cannot confiscate and keep private property. ANY property.
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You best me to it. One breaks a law. One breaks a school policy. If a gun is confiscated at school, it sure as hell isn't going to sit in the principal's desk until the end of the grading period. Such a bad analogy.
 
#211
#211
YorkVol said:
Sometimes the parents are the problem. My kids had a classmate who caused a lot of trouble but every time the school tried to discipline him his mother would bully then and threaten law suits. He should have been expelled after he brought a gun to school in the 6th grade but the principal was over ruled by admin and he got a week suspension instead. Mom was delusional thinking he was a good kid and the teachers were just racist. Unfortunately he shot a rival gang member last year and he is likely to get the death penalty. It is possible that better discipline early on might have saved a coupLe of lives.
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Boca Vol said:
OK, would you have a problem if the child brought a gun to school...from the Dad's gun collection?...and the Dad showed up demanding his gun back?

You're missing the point by hiding behind the "it's the parent's property" stance.

The bottom line is the child was in possession of a phone which was confiscated for disciplinary reasons. Rules are in place for such infractions.
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We need to relax... do you see how easy it is for some of you to turn a conversation about a cellphone (or even a knife) into a discussion about guns?

Lets bring it down just a tad with the melodrama.
 
#212
#212
Boca Vol said:
Are you seriously hiding behind the "parent's property" stance? You're the one that brought up calculators, lunch money and shoes...all of which are mundane things. But if you're going that route add all the other things to the list including phones and guns.

So where do you draw the line?
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Again, I find it amazing in this day of school laptops and tablets that we are going to single out cellphones as contraband. I wonder WHY the school choose to take this particular stance on cellphones. I would love to read/hear their justification.
 
#214
#214
Boca Vol said:
The bottom line is you're hiding the "property" argument whether it's a calculator, lunch money, shoes, phones, or guns. Is all property the same? NO! That's the point.

Phones, knives, & guns have policies whereas lunch money and shoes don't.



When I was in my mid 20's I was a marketing director for a mall in Raleigh. I wanted to do a promo that cutoff at noon to entice early shopping. The upper management simply smiled and let me run with it. It was a disaster because I didn't define what constituted as the "official" cutoff time. Was it in line by noon or the receipts sale time by noon. Lesson learned! :thud:

So think of those swing shifts you were in charge of....what were the rules? Were some people allowed to come in later than others? I'm pretty sure you had parameters around what was acceptable and what wasn't.
Click to expand...

I wonder how all of these bars across the country handle happy hour prices with such ease but a group of mall employees seemed to struggle with it?
 
#215
#215
Boca Vol said:
No, you're defending the father because it's his "property".

If you want to go that route, just about everything on the kid is the father's property.

If a kid brought a gun to school it would, most likely, be the father's property.

Where do you draw the line? I'm pretty sure the school has drawn the line by having enforcements for phones and weapons.
Click to expand...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g8r-bdcvx8E[/youtube]
 
#216
#216
Grand Vol said:
You ignore the basic fact that the school has now taken it upon themselves to steal individual property. Fine, the student shouldn't have been using it. Even multiple offenses. Simple solution to that problem. It's called expelling her. There's an easy solution to the problem that doesn't involve a school taking personal property for an extended period of time.

One way or the other, that phone is not property of the school. And they have no right to hold it from the rightful owner when they request, then demand return. I can flat guarantee you I'd have it back before I left. Because I'll be damned if I'm paying for a phone bill while my property was sitting in a desk where it was being kept illegally. And I'll certainly not stand for someone hiding behind a policy holding on to property I paid money and upkeep for.
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You're right it's his property but if the kid hadn't broken the rules it wouldn't now be the schools temporary property.

Perhaps it would be wise to let a teenager buy their own cell phone when they have a job and can pay for it themselves, then if the cell phone gets confiscated it's not your problem it's your child's problem. I bet they'd have a new appreciation for responsibility when their own hard earned money is going into something they truly want anyway and they also probably won't pull out it during class.
 
#218
#218
Rasputin_Vol said:
Again, I find it amazing in this day of school laptops and tablets that we are going to single out cellphones as contraband. I wonder WHY the school choose to take this particular stance on cellphones. I would love to read/hear their justification.
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It never ceases to amaze me how people will adamantly stand by something based simply on the fact that it's "law" or "policy". Whether it's right or wrong matters not. Whether it makes any sense matters not. If it's a law/policy you better damn well follow it or you deserve whatever arbitrary punishment they've attached to their arbitrary rule.

So why you ask. Because they say so... That's why.
 
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#219
#219
Coug said:
You're right it's his property but if the kid hadn't broken the rules it wouldn't now be the schools temporary property.

Perhaps it would be wise to let a teenager buy their own cell phone when they have a job and can pay for it themselves, then if the cell phone gets confiscated it's not your problem it's your child's problem. I bet they'd have a new appreciation for responsibility when their own hard earned money is going into something they truly want anyway and they also probably won't pull out it during class.
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I agree with the second portion. I partially agree with the first portion.

Again, I have no problems with the school enforcing their rules in taking said phone away from the student. In fact, I don't think anyone on here disputes their authority to do so. But again, most of the problems stem from the rightful owner being told they have to wait because of "policy" when it was requested.
 
#220
#220
Coug said:
You're right it's his property but if the kid hadn't broken the rules it wouldn't now be the schools temporary property.

Perhaps it would be wise to let a teenager buy their own cell phone when they have a job and can pay for it themselves, then if the cell phone gets confiscated it's not your problem it's your child's problem. I bet they'd have a new appreciation for responsibility when their own hard earned money is going into something they truly want anyway and they also probably won't pull out it during class.
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I've gone to dozens of meetings with my job and had people say beforehand to turn off their cellphones. Yet predictably, you will hear a cellphone go off at some point during the meeting or conference... even while VPs are talking. If the VP or manager at the place I earn my living doesn't confiscate cellphones for an indeterminate amount of time, why the hell should a school teacher?
 
#221
#221
Grand Vol said:
I agree with the second portion. I partially agree with the first portion.

Again, I have no problems with the school enforcing their rules in taking said phone away from the student. In fact, I don't think anyone on here disputes their authority to do so. But again, most of the problems stem from the rightful owner being told they have to wait because of "policy" when it was requested.
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Exactly...
 
#222
#222
vollygirl said:
Oh. My. Good. Lord! Really? Not a single one of y'all understood I was referring to sending your 15 year old to the military?

I never said a high school kid learning a trade wasn't a good idea. (I did say a kid can't graduate from high school as a licensed electrician. Anybody who thinks that's possible is an idiot.)
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Please explain why they couldn't.
 
#223
#223
Boca Vol said:
No, you're defending the father because it's his "property".

If you want to go that route, just about everything on the kid is the father's property.

If a kid brought a gun to school it would, most likely, be the father's property.

Where do you draw the line? I'm pretty sure the school has drawn the line by having enforcements for phones and weapons.
Click to expand...

Weapons endanger lives. Phones don't. Not hard to understand. Also a kid who brings a weapon to school is going to have it confiscated by police, not the school administration.
 
#225
#225
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Weapons endanger lives. Phones don't. Not hard to understand. Also a kid who brings a weapon to school is going to have it confiscated by police, not the school administration.
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You're missing the point. Yes, phones and guns are different. But not if you're simply talking about "property" and who owns what.

I'm sure the principal didn't write the policy, but it's her job to enforce it whether it makes sense to everyone or not.

Again, the child brought a phone to school, violated the policy, the phone was confiscated according to the policy, father gets mad at school.

I see a problem here and it isn't with the school.
 
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