School Shootings

#201
#201
volglass said:
Condescending tone notwithstanding, I don't have any belief as to what he would have done. He may have bought two handguns, five knives, made a bomb at home or any number of things. Or he may have shrugged his shoulders, walked home, kicked a box of lightbulbs, or got run over the next day. We don't know what would have happened we only know what did happen.

FTR: why do you think he chose an AR? He could have made a bomb in his basement that would have killed many more people like Timothy McVeigh. If his intention was to kill and hurt as many people as he could there are much more lethal ways he could have done.

You seem to argue that mass shooters would use anything to get their results, so why choose this specific method?
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The ar is a favorite because it’s rhe civilian equivalent of an m16. But is your argument not “we should consider banning the ar because it may limit these incidents”?

It’s not the most powerful. It’s not the most accurate. It’s not the most affordable. Nor does it have the highest capacity magazines.
 
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#202
#202
Vol8188 said:
The ar is a favorite because it’s rhe civilian equivalent of an m16. But is your argument not “we should consider banning the ar because it may limit these incidents”?

It’s not the most powerful. It’s not the most accurate. It’s not the most affordable. Nor does it have the highest capacity magazines.
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That's interesting. So why does it seem to be used in many of these shootings? Why don't the shooters use something better to accomplish their goals? Is it because they are easier to obtain than the other firearms you mention or is there some other reason? Seriously asking.
 
#203
#203
volglass said:
That's interesting. So why does it seem to be used in many of these shootings? Why don't the shooters use something better to accomplish their goals? Is it because they are easier to obtain than the other firearms you mention or is there some other reason? Seriously asking.
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It's not used in many of these shootings. Even by your own post that is proven.
 
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#204
#204
volglass said:
That's interesting. So why does it seem to be used in many of these shootings? Why don't the shooters use something better to accomplish their goals? Is it because they are easier to obtain than the other firearms you mention or is there some other reason? Seriously asking.
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They’re popular because of their militaristic style. But far less popular than handguns

But are you not claiming that these guns being banned could’ve potentially saved lives? Yes or no?
 
#205
#205
volglass said:
Great ideas! I really believe that if education and licensing was required for the purchase of a firearm it would create at least a time and effort barrier which could curtail the purposeful purchase to misuse a firearm. Now, I think you can just buy one off the shelf, wait 45 min for the background check to clear and you have it. If you have to go through the proper procedure and invest your time and effort to obtain anything you tend to be more responsible with it.

I hope I read your ideas correctly.
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tbh, that 45 minutes was pretty nerve racking even knowing it was coming back clean. maybe it was just first time jitters.

what I am proposing would be pretty similar. but instead of it being 45 minutes for a back ground check its 45 minutes on a test (written & activity). in my world the intent is not to deny someone their right. not sure how that is effectively done.
 
#206
#206
1972 Grad said:
The term AR comes from the firearms company Armalite. They developed a rifle to replace the M-1 Garand , which was the AR-10. The AR-15 was an offshoot, designed in a smaller caliber and lighter weight.
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I believe Stoner’s naming method was Armalite Rifle model/design 10 and Armalite Rifle model/design 15.

This is one of the quick tests I always look for when a leftie starts harping about assault rifles. Those evil AR guns
 
#207
#207
volglass said:
That's interesting. So why does it seem to be used in many of these shootings? Why don't the shooters use something better to accomplish their goals? Is it because they are easier to obtain than the other firearms you mention or is there some other reason? Seriously asking.
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they are not any easier to obtain than anything else. its simply availability and that everyone does one so they are there. so even if Ruger's AR-15 isn't there, someone else's is.
 
#208
#208
volglass said:
Great ideas! I really believe that if education and licensing was required for the purchase of a firearm it would create at least a time and effort barrier which could curtail the purposeful purchase to misuse a firearm. Now, I think you can just buy one off the shelf, wait 45 min for the background check to clear and you have it. If you have to go through the proper procedure and invest your time and effort to obtain anything you tend to be more responsible with it.

I hope I read your ideas correctly.
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45 minutes for a BGC? Geeze, most I've ever waited is maybe 10 minutes.
 
#210
#210
volglass said:
Do you think it was a good thing that he bought that firearm? If not, then what could have been done?
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The question is not whether it is a good thing he bought/stole/found/borrowed an AR 15. The question is not about the weapon of choice. The question is about the sick individual. What could have been done to prevent HIM from committing this act?
 
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#211
#211
Vol8188 said:
They’re popular because of their militaristic style. But far less popular than handguns.
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Do you mean "militaristic style" as a matter of aesthetics? If so I'm pretty dubious on that one, certainly if meant as a broad stroke observation. I'm certain there are some that just think they're "cool".

If you meant as a matter of vetted function and designed modular practicality then yeah, there's a lot of that going on over the past 20 years or so.
 
#212
#212
hndog609 said:
Do you mean "militaristic style" as a matter of aesthetics? If so I'm pretty dubious on that one, certainly if meant as a broad stroke observation. I'm certain there are some that just think they're "cool".

If you meant as a matter of vetted function and designed modular practicality then yeah, there's a lot of that going on over the past 20 years or so.
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Aesthetics. I think a lot of people are drawn to them simply for the look. You’ve even got kits to make 10-22s look like ars.
 
#213
#213
Vol8188 said:
Aesthetics. I think a lot of people are drawn to them simply for the look. You’ve even got kits to make 10-22s look like ars.
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As I said "some" will go for the "tacticool" flavor but I'm pretty dubious about that being the primary driver in sales. As I mentioned back in post #197 there is a great deal more than aesthetics involved with the merits of the AR platform, particularly with anyone even halfway serious about actually using it as more than a range toy.
 
#214
#214
Vol8188 said:
Aesthetics. I think a lot of people are drawn to them simply for the look. You’ve even got kits to make 10-22s look like ars.
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Do you actuallly believe aesthetics are the primary reason of interest in the AR15 platform?

I own two AR15 platform guns. They are completely different weapons. The only two pieces they have in common are the upper receiver and lower receiver. Literally every other component is different. And the two weapons function in entirely different fashion. One is tuned for 100 yds and closer. The other for about 150 yds and much farther. It’s all in the triggers, optics, barrel length, barrel twist, floating/fixed fore grip. It goes on and on...

It is this flexibility of the platform that drives its popularity. They are routinely referred to as “the adult male Barbie doll” due to the sheer number of modifications and accessories you can put on them.
 
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#215
#215
Vol8188 said:
They’re popular because of their militaristic style. But far less popular than handguns

But are you not claiming that these guns being banned could’ve potentially saved lives? Yes or no?
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That's an obvious yes. Those guns being banned could've potentially saved lives. Anything being banned could potentially save lives especially if they have just been used as tools to end lives not 72 hours ago.

The question is where is our line when it comes to firearms and what other alternatives can we implement? Some people's line is one death is too many while others think that we just live in a violent world and have to deal accordingly. The answer is obviously in the middle, but I'm not sure you are nuanced enough to care since you like to deal in absolutes.
 
#216
#216
volglass said:
That's an obvious yes. Those guns being banned could've potentially saved lives. Anything being banned could potentially save lives especially if they have just been used as tools to end lives not 72 hours ago.

The question is where is our line when it comes to firearms and what other alternatives can we implement? Some people's line is one death is too many while others think that we just live in a violent world and have to deal accordingly. The answer is obviously in the middle, but I'm not sure you are nuanced enough to care since you like to deal in absolutes.
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How exactly would an ar ban save lives? You believe killers would just give up instead of purchasing a different weapon?

If so, that’s the most insane view I’ve ever came across.
 
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#217
#217
NorthDallas40 said:
Do you actuallly believe aesthetics are the primary reason of interest in the AR15 platform?

I own two AR15 platform guns. They are completely different weapons. The only two pieces they have in common are the upper receiver and lower receiver. Literally every other component is different. And the two weapons function in entirely different fashion. One is tuned for 100 yds and closer. The other for about 150 yds and much farther. It’s all in the triggers, optics, barrel length, barrel twist, floating/fixed fore grip. It goes on and on...

It is this flexibility of the platform that drives its popularity. They are routinely referred to as “the adult male Barbie doll” due to the sheer number of modifications and accessories you can put on them.
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I’m not claiming the ar is a piece of crap or anything, but I am claiming it’s looks are a big part of its popularity. Even the mods you mentioned, many of those are done for looks, as well.

I’m even guilty of it myself. I am probably going to order the kit to make my 10-22 look like an ar
 
#218
#218
Vol8188 said:
I’m not claiming the ar is a piece of crap or anything, but I am claiming it’s looks are a big part of its popularity. Even the mods you mentioned, many of those are done for looks, as well.
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You've lost me, I didn't see anything he specifically listed that wasn't much, if not entirely, function over form.
 
#220
#220
I think one of the biggest contributors to these mass shootings is how the media constantly over-sensationalizes these events and perpetrators. It gives mentally unstable people national fame.

TBH, news outlets like Fox News and CNN need to only cover these events the day of and need to never, ever show the picture of the shooter on national television.

This would help quit the romanticization of these events, and deter evil people from getting their "moment" in fame.
 
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#221
#221
Matt2496 said:
I think one of the biggest contributors to these mass shootings is how the media constantly over-sensationalizes these events and perpetrators. It gives mentally unstable people national fame.

TBH, news outlets like Fox News and CNN need to only cover these events the day of and need to never, ever show the picture of the shooter on national television.

This would help quit the romanticization of these events, and deter evil people from getting their "moment" in fame.
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That is a key element. unsecessful losers who see this as their one shot at being noticed
 
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#222
#222
Matt2496 said:
I think one of the biggest contributors to these mass shootings is how the media constantly over-sensationalizes these events and perpetrators. It gives mentally unstable people national fame.

TBH, news outlets like Fox News and CNN need to only cover these events the day of and need to never, ever show the picture of the shooter on national television.

This would help quit the romanticization of these events, and deter evil people from getting their "moment" in fame.
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I don't know where it falls on the list of causes but I agree its an issue. I think the only time the shooter needs to get mentioned is once they have caught him (no speculation) or if he needs to be tracked down and the cops have given out a name.
 
#225
#225
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