School Shootings

[hog88]

That may be, but from my perspective there seems to be an uptick in the specific use of the AR platform to carry out current mass shootings. I would like to know the actual numbers of AR vs handgun-only mass shootings.

Handguns requires a whole different conversation regarding personal protection v long range rifles IMO.

As it stands right now I believe it is 3 or 4 committed with ARs the rest handguns or other rifles.

 

[volglass]

I found this from USA Today:

Here is a list of mass shootings in the U.S. that featured AR-15-style rifles during the last 35 years, courtesy of the Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries and USA TODAY research:

Feb. 24, 1984: Tyrone Mitchell, 28, used an AR-15, a Stoeger 12-gauge shotgun and a Winchester 12-gauge shotgun to kill two and wound 12 at 49th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles before killing himself.
Oct. 7, 2007: Tyler Peterson, 20, used an AR-15 to kill six and injure one at an apartment in Crandon, Wis., before killing himself.
June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.
Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.
June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.
March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.
May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.
Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.
Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.
June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.
Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.
Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

 

[hndog609]

I found this from USA Today:

Here is a list of mass shootings in the U.S. that featured AR-15-style rifles during the last 35 years, courtesy of the Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries and USA TODAY research:

Feb. 24, 1984: Tyrone Mitchell, 28, used an AR-15, a Stoeger 12-gauge shotgun and a Winchester 12-gauge shotgun to kill two and wound 12 at 49th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles before killing himself.
Oct. 7, 2007: Tyler Peterson, 20, used an AR-15 to kill six and injure one at an apartment in Crandon, Wis., before killing himself.
June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.
Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.
June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.
March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.
May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.
Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.
Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.
June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.
Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.
Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

I think if you compare the overall number of qualifying incidents over the last 35 years the 14 you listed would be a very small percentage.

 

[hog88]

I found this from USA Today:

Here is a list of mass shootings in the U.S. that featured AR-15-style rifles during the last 35 years, courtesy of the Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries and USA TODAY research:

Feb. 24, 1984: Tyrone Mitchell, 28, used an AR-15, a Stoeger 12-gauge shotgun and a Winchester 12-gauge shotgun to kill two and wound 12 at 49th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles before killing himself.
Oct. 7, 2007: Tyler Peterson, 20, used an AR-15 to kill six and injure one at an apartment in Crandon, Wis., before killing himself.
June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.
Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.
June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.
March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.
May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.
Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.
Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.
June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.
Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.
Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

I almost all of your accounts the actual weapon used isn't defined. Did the killers use every weapon listed or were the additional weapons just there? Besides if you really break it down, averaging 6.5 deaths a year isn't a lot. More people per year are probably murdered with knives than that.

 

[Blake25p]

I feel the only way you can even come close to stopping mass school shootings is for the teachers (doesn’t have to be all) to be armed. I’m sure the local Law Enforcement would have zero problems providing the training required/needed.

 

[Vol8188]

I found this from USA Today:

Here is a list of mass shootings in the U.S. that featured AR-15-style rifles during the last 35 years, courtesy of the Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries and USA TODAY research:

Feb. 24, 1984: Tyrone Mitchell, 28, used an AR-15, a Stoeger 12-gauge shotgun and a Winchester 12-gauge shotgun to kill two and wound 12 at 49th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles before killing himself.
Oct. 7, 2007: Tyler Peterson, 20, used an AR-15 to kill six and injure one at an apartment in Crandon, Wis., before killing himself.
June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.
Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.
June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.
March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.
May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.
Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.
Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.
June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.
Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.
Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

To this I “so what?”

 

[LouderVol]

That may be, but from my perspective there seems to be an uptick in the specific use of the AR platform to carry out current mass shootings. I would like to know the actual numbers of AR vs handgun-only mass shootings.

Handguns requires a whole different conversation regarding personal protection v long range rifles IMO.

that is 100s of gun models with who knows (GV maybe) how many kit of parts to make your own out of different manufacturers. There is nothing specific about an "AR"

 

[LouderVol]

I found this from USA Today:

Here is a list of mass shootings in the U.S. that featured AR-15-style rifles during the last 35 years, courtesy of the Stanford Geospatial Center and Stanford Libraries and USA TODAY research:

Feb. 24, 1984: Tyrone Mitchell, 28, used an AR-15, a Stoeger 12-gauge shotgun and a Winchester 12-gauge shotgun to kill two and wound 12 at 49th Street Elementary School in Los Angeles before killing himself.
Oct. 7, 2007: Tyler Peterson, 20, used an AR-15 to kill six and injure one at an apartment in Crandon, Wis., before killing himself.
June 20, 2012: James Eagan Holmes, 24, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber Smith and Wesson rifle with a 100-round magazine, a 12-gauge Remington shotgun and two .40-caliber Glock semi-automatic pistols to kill 12 and injure 58 at a movie theater in Aurora, Colo.
Dec. 14, 2012: Adam Lanza, 20, used an AR-15-style rifle, a .223-caliber Bushmaster, to kill 27 people — his mother, 20 students and six teachers — in Newtown, Conn., before killing himself.
June 7, 2013: John Zawahri, 23, used an AR-15-style .223-caliber rifle and a .44-caliber Remington revolver to kill five and injure three at a home in Santa Monica, Calif., before he was killed.
March 19, 2015: Justin Fowler, 24, used an AR-15 to kill one and injure two on a street in Little Water, N.M., before he was killed.
May 31, 2015: Jeffrey Scott Pitts, 36, used an AR-15 and .45-caliber handgun to kill two and injure two at a store in Conyers, Ga., before he was killed.
Oct. 31, 2015: Noah Jacob Harpham, 33, used an AR-15, a .357-caliber revolver and a 9mm semi-automatic pistol to kill three on a street in Colorado Springs, Colo., before he was killed.
Dec. 2, 2015: Syed Rizwyan Farook and Tashfeen Malik, 28 and 27, used two AR-15-style, .223-caliber Remington rifles and two 9 mm handguns to kill 14 and injure 21 at his workplace in San Bernardino, Calif., before they were killed.
June 12, 2016: Omar Mateen, 29, used an AR-15 style rifle (a Sig Sauer MCX), and a 9mm Glock semi-automatic pistol to kill 49 people and injure 50 at an Orlando nightclub before he was killed.
Oct. 1, 2017: Stephen Paddock, 64, used a stockpile of guns including an AR-15 to kill 58 people and injure hundreds at a music festival in Las Vegas before he killed himself.
Nov. 5, 2017: Devin Kelley, 26, used an AR-15 style Ruger rifle to kill 26 people at a church in Sutherland Springs, Texas, before he was killed.
Feb. 14, 2018: Police say Nikolas Cruz, 19, used an AR-15-style rifle to kill at least 17 people at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla.

so banning ARs would have stopped 3 of those shootings. the rest had multiple guns.

 

[Vol8188]

so banning ARs would have stopped 3 of those shootings. the rest had multiple guns.

I wouldn’t say that either. You’re assuming the shooter only killed people due to his love for an ar. Obviously he would’ve simply chosen another weapon. The end result would’ve been the same

 

[volglass]

I almost all of your accounts the actual weapon used isn't defined. Did the killers use every weapon listed or were the additional weapons just there? Besides if you really break it down, averaging 6.5 deaths a year isn't a lot. More people per year are probably murdered with knives than that.

That's a good question but I doubt that the perps only used handguns while not utilizing the ARs. It's disingenuous to calculate 6.5 deaths per year when the first one is in the 1980s and there is a 20 year gap until the next one.

 

[volglass]

so banning ARs would have stopped 3 of those shootings. the rest had multiple guns.

You are right and I'm ok with that.

 

[Vol8188]

You are right and I'm ok with that.

That’s a stupid thought. You really believe the shooter only killed these people because he loved ars? You don’t believe if ars were illegal that he would’ve simply used a different weapon?

 

[hog88]

That's a good question but I doubt that the perps only used handguns while not utilizing the ARs. It's disingenuous to calculate 6.5 deaths per year when the first one is in the 1980s and there is a 20 year gap until the next one.

Then you shouldn't have included it. You should also take out any that weren't random shootings, if any were domestic, gang/drug related or similar those are immaterial to this discussion since those killings were going to happen regardless of a weapons ban.

 

[hog88]

You are right and I'm ok with that.

It's a good thing those guys back in the 1700s drew up a little piece of paper that trumps what you are Ok with.

 

[LouderVol]

I wouldn’t say that either. You’re assuming the shooter only killed people due to his love for an ar. Obviously he would’ve simply chosen another weapon. The end result would’ve been the same

I know that, he doesn't seem to realize that. I am trying to get him to admit the small stuff before I moved on to other points.

 

[oz615]

Meigs and Monroe county schools both had threats today with a B.B. gun being recovered at Sequoyah high school..

Copycat?

 

[LouderVol]

You are right and I'm ok with that.

so its not about saving lives, its specifically about one gun platform.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Is anyone not surprised that people immediately blamed Trump for this immediately yet remained silent in blaming Obama when he had over 135 school shootings happen under his watch?..

 

[Vol_Doc]

Unfortunately, this shooting, like others before it, will stay in the news for a week or so, then fade away without anything substantive being accomplished. Problem is that no one can agree on what, if anything, can be done to mitigate such events. It's that faulty 2 party system again. One side says "ban guns!" The other side says "arm everyone!" Both are focusing on the instrument, rather than the cause.

 

[rocktopper16]

Copycat?

Officers say it’s just pranks and it usually happens after a shooting sadly but they still should be charged and held accountable.

 

[LouderVol]

Unfortunately, this shooting, like others before it, will stay in the news for a week or so, then fade away without anything substantive being accomplished. Problem is that no one can agree on what, if anything, can be done to mitigate such events. It's that faulty 2 party system again. One side says "ban guns!" The other side says "arm everyone!" Both are focusing on the instrument, rather than the cause.

yup. which is why we should start these arguments on a common ground and not the two extremes.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Unfortunately, this shooting, like others before it, will stay in the news for a week or so, then fade away without anything substantive being accomplished. Problem is that no one can agree on what, if anything, can be done to mitigate such events. It's that faulty 2 party system again. One side says "ban guns!" The other side says "arm everyone!" Both are focusing on the instrument, rather than the cause.

I dont think anything can be done. Its a "grin and bear it" type of situation.

Todays school shooting is yesterdays after school fist fight by the dumpster.

 

[Vol_Doc]

I dont think anything can be done. Its a "grin and bear it" type of situation.

Todays school shooting is yesterdays after school fist fight by the dumpster.

Well, in this case something could have been done. There were plenty of warning signs on this kid, including a tip to the FBI last month that wasn't acted on. Shooters like this usually show warning signs of mental instability. They need to be taken seriously.

 

[Orange_Vol1321]

I've been in security/Law Enforcement for over 20 years now and every time there is a mass shooting especially at a school I get ton of messages on FB or via email asking my opinion on what can be done to stop these shootings. The short answer is NOTHING can be done to STOP these but there are a ton of things that we can do to pre identify possible shootings or limit the amount of victims/casualties .


The Gun Debate: Everyone is quick to call for gun control or bans on A-15's when there is a mass shooting. This is the laziest and dumbest argument in this whole tragic debate on shootings. Ban AR's or any guns WON'T stop these shootings. Most of the times these weapons are acquired from their parents,friends or just bought off the street without background checks. Politicians are quick to use these events for their own propaganda and political believes. If a nut case wants to shoot up a place there NOTHING gun bans will do to prevent these acts from happening, stop this debate and start doing something that CAN help reduce or identify possible events.

Training/Equipment:To be honest most schools or businesses are under trained or equipped for these events. Most schools have some sort of security these days wether it's a unarmed guard, metal detectors,video cameras or a armed police/school resource officer. Most high schools regardless of the size of the campus have 1 or 2 officers. One or two officers are not enough in most cases to properly protect campuses. Several schools don't wont offer armed security or have very poor if ANY other security devices such as metal detectors or cameras. How does this happen in this day and age?? Usually comes down to $$

School Design/Setup: Most high schools and universities are easy targets for mass shootings once the suspect(s) get inside the facility. Most classrooms have large glass windows or amazingly doors that are unable to be locked from inside the classrooms. This makes it very easy for possible shooters to access areas and to stalk out victims.

Mental Health Issues & Warning Signs: After a tragic mass shooting we almost always find out that there was easy warning signs that were ignored or that the suspect had mental health issues. In almost 90% of mass shootings there were very easy "warning signs" leading up to the shooting. These are either physical or verbal comments, the following and talking about terrorist groups or past mass shootings and very often social media posts prior to the event. If you see or hear someone making statements about violence against others or posting weird social media posts about violence then REPORT IT!! Regardless of wether the posts or statements are legit or just angry banter at least authorities will be aware of it! This in my opinion is the #1 way to prevent possible shootings!

The Armed Teacher Debate: The media and left wing politicians are HIGHLY against this ideal because of their gun ban causes and pushes. In my opinion with what I said about a lack of officers/guards and equipment in most schools I firmly believe IF DONE RIGHT is the ONLY way to properly defend our schools. With that said I'm not talking about every Joe & Jane with a CCW permit is allowed to carry at school or in their workplace. If you are a licensed CCW carrier you should be required to go thru proper self defense and mass shooting training just like the police are required too. Then after passing the training and getting re certified EACH year you are allowed to carry for defense at school or work. In a school setting this should be only for staff, not students in my opinion.

Active Shooter Training: A lot of schools are very resistant to offering active shooter training even in this age because they simply have the "It can't happen here" thinking or are afraid to scare students or parents. In most states Active Shooter Training is free and offered by local police departments,Emergency Management or even the federal government. Another problem I often see when there is active shooter training at schools it's ONLY for local first responders and maybe school staff. Why not include students just like a fire or tornado drill?

Like I said before there is NO WAY to STOP mass shootings but limiting the victims and being more prepared and alert is the key.

None of this will ever stop these. Untill every building has metal detectors this will keep happening frequently.

 

[Grand Vol]

None of this will ever stop these. Untill every building has metal detectors this will keep happening frequently.

Not even close.

Hoosier is spot on that multiple angles to attack the problem are needed. One dimensional thinking and tactics are what allow these to continue.