SCOTUS fails to stop TX abortion law.

#377
#377
utvols88 said:
Disagree it's merely potential. It all comes down to the definition of when one becomes human. Viability is a moving target and inconsistent when applied.
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So, outlaw abortion. Just allow females to choose when they want to give birth.
 
#379
#379
NorthDallas40 said:
I don’t disagree with you. But the cases which ash referenced are clear cut cases where abortion is warranted for medical reasons and probably happening in many cases where they don’t want to get one. I believe the current Texas law even defines these cases as unlawful. Stupid extremism the other way.
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Yes, that is the case. The law is so broad that it does not protect women in these situations.
 
#380
#380
ClearwaterVol said:
So, outlaw abortion. Just allow females to choose when they want to give birth.
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Ok. Deal. If they fail to get their child the proper care or make a decision to place him or her in harm's way, it's child negligence and potentially manslaughter or murder 1.

Also puts the doctors in malpractice and perhaps criminal charges too. Glad we agree.
 
#382
#382
AshG said:
Yes, that is the case. The law is so broad that it does not protect women in these situations.
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It’s a really stupid law which resulted from extremism to the opposite end of the spectrum. We had four decades plus of victory laps of “my body my choice so butt out” which culminated in Texas as “fine go ahead your choice. Good luck finding a doctor to do it.”

Both are stupid extremist stances.
 
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#383
#383
utvols88 said:
But they won't concede to get rid of the abortions that are simply for birth control. Usually the pointing of rape, incest, mother harm is disingenuous.
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Exactly. Those are just the thin end of the wedge to gain an emotional appeal.

"You're putting the life of the mother in danger if so and so happens..."
 
#384
#384
NorthDallas40 said:
I don’t disagree with you. But the cases which ash referenced are clear cut cases where abortion is warranted for medical reasons and probably happening in many cases where they don’t want to get one. I believe the current Texas law even defines these cases as unlawful. Stupid extremism the other way.
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Which why I asked @AshG where would be a good middle ground to have this discussion. Middle ground meaning, neither side gets everything they want, but they both walk away with something.
 
#385
#385
DinkinFlicka said:
Was it, though?

You know what was more devastating? Going to Afghanistan 20 years ago.
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Not disagreeing but if you're trying to equate us providing small arms to the Northern Alliance to Black Hawks, Tanks, Armored Vehicles etc, I think that's a little disingenuous. I read somewhere that the Taliban is better equipped than Australia.
 
#386
#386
lawgator1 said:
Interesting discussion this morning as to the means by which this was done, so as to leave state actors out of it and make it harder to challenge.

Put aside for the moment the substance of it, i.e. whether you are pro-life or pro-choice. That's its own discussion.

What they did here to bypass the normal paths for legal challenges is to not have state officials implementing a law. Rather, they created a right of action for private individuals to sue and collect a bounty whenever a standard was violated. Pretty clever. No way to directly sue the government for this (at least immediately).

But think about this mechanism on a broader scale. Does this mean that a state can create a private cause of action for me, as a random citizen, to sue a gun manufacturer for making a gun that violates some standard I might impose? Can a private citizen sue the police in their hometown and collect a bounty because an officer arrested someone else under dubious circumstances?

There are a lot of ways this mechanism can be abused the other way, too.

I personally think there are standing issues here. While traditionally the legislative branch can create standing by statute, there might be a limit to that and we might see it here.
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I can’t say this very often, but I agree.
 
#387
#387
InVOLuntary said:
Not disagreeing but if you're trying to equate us providing small arms to the Northern Alliance to Black Hawks, Tanks, Armored Vehicles etc, I think that's a little disingenuous. I read somewhere that the Taliban is better equipped than Australia.
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I mean, if we're talking disingenuous... you're comparing a militaristic insurgency of religious fanaticism that spans 40 years of war-driven existence to a country that has less than 1000 military conflict-related casualties in 70 years.

In an all-out war with no allies, I would have put ALL my money on the Taliban if the Aussies were their opponents, and I'd do the same BEFORE the past month.
 
#388
#388
utvols88 said:
Ok. Deal. If they fail to get their child the proper care or make a decision to place him or her in harm's way, it's child negligence and potentially manslaughter or murder 1.

Also puts the doctors in malpractice and perhaps criminal charges too. Glad we agree.
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No, it is simply withdrawing consent to be an incubator.
 
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#390
#390
Rasputin_Vol said:
Which why I asked @AshG where would be a good middle ground to have this discussion. Middle ground meaning, neither side gets everything they want, but they both walk away with something.
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We actually had a middle ground until Bob Jones University needed a new topic to really around after being forced to desegregate. I believe it was a solid compromise:

Allowed for rape, incest, malformation or death of fetus (not Downs syndrome), danger to mother or fetus as determined by MD/DO.
 
#391
#391
NorthDallas40 said:
It’s a really stupid law which resulted from extremism to the opposite end of the spectrum. We had four decades plus of victory laps of “my body my choice so butt out” which culminated in Texas as “fine go ahead your choice. Good luck finding a doctor to do it.”

Both are stupid extremist stances.
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How is "My body my choice" an extremist stance here, but not elsewhere?
 
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#393
#393
DinkinFlicka said:
How is "My body my choice" an extremist stance here, but not elsewhere?
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Because this is a 99% conservative board with a 90% male population; there are many wonderful and nuanced thinkers among the ranks, but they are often shouted down or outgrouped.
 
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#395
#395
AshG said:
We actually had a middle ground until Bob Jones University needed a new topic to really around after being forced to desegregate. I believe it was a solid compromise:

Allowed for rape, incest, malformation or death of fetus (not Downs syndrome), danger to mother or fetus as determined by MD/DO.
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In the second trimester and beyond, why in the hell does the baby need to be aborted/killed when it could be possibly saved outside of the womb? If the technology advances enough, we may even be able to salvage a birth in the weeks leading up to the second trimester (which would fall in the window of the "heartbeat" law) if it isn't already able to be done right now.

Explain to me why the baby has to be killed in one of these extreme situations?
 
#396
#396
AshG said:
Because this is a 99% conservative board with a 90% male population; there are many wonderful and nuanced thinkers among the ranks, but they are often shouted down or outgrouped.
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Thank you for recognizing me and what happens when I drop deep thoughts on this board.
 
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#398
#398
AshG said:
Because this is a 99% conservative board with a 90% male population; there are many wonderful and nuanced thinkers among the ranks, but they are often shouted down or outgrouped.
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Ok you know I was just using sound bites to represent forcing the one extreme of unrestricted abortion resulted in the poor blow back of needlessly restrictive abortion approvals on providers right?
 
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