Seattle City Council moves to abolish Police Department!

#176
#176
utvolpj said:
So you believe we should have police departments enforcing bike helmet laws? Hope you're not part of the group that brags about drinking from the hose, going home with the streetlights, etc
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If it’s a law then yes they should enforce it. Pretty obvious. Not agreeing with the law and petitioning for it to be abolished is fine. Abolishing it because the criminals who refuse to abide by it are a certain color is dumb. Comparing this law to kids riding bikes in the neighborhood is also dumb.
 
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#177
#177
C-south said:
If it’s a law then yes they should enforce it. Pretty obvious. Not agreeing with the law and petitioning for it to be abolished is fine. Abolishing it because the criminals who refuse to abide by it are a certain color is dumb. Comparing this law to kids riding bikes in the neighborhood is also dumb.
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They made a local choice and overturned it. Why is really irrelevant but less laws and less revenue collection by the state's enforcers is a good thing
 
#178
#178
utvolpj said:
They made a local choice and overturned it. Why is really irrelevant but less laws and less revenue collection by the state's enforcers is a good thing
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They only deemed it bad because only certain people refused to abide by it and it went against their “wokeness”.If all white people were being issued tickets it would still be a law.
 
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#179
#179
C-south said:
They only deemed it bad because only certain people refused to abide by it and it went against their “wokeness”.If all white people were being issued tickets it would still be a law.
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Who cares? It was a bad law removed. That's a positive
 
#181
#181
PEPPERJAX said:
The majority of the punishments given out by the system do not equate to justice for crimes like this imo. That guy with the bat deserves everything bad that comes his way.
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He deserves to be tied to a post then allow every one of Wang’s family and friends the opportunity to take a ball bat to him.
 
#185
#185
Franklin Pierce said:
Seattle drops its bike helmet rule after finding it unfairly targeted people of color and homeless people: Study found black cyclists were four times as likely to be stopped as whites

Seattle officials have overturned a decades-old mandatory law for bicycle riders to wear helmets after a study showed there was discriminatory enforcement of the rule against people of color and homeless people and found that black cyclists were four times as likely to be stopped as white cyclists.

The King County Board of Health, made up of elected officials and medical experts from cities across the county, voiced its support on Thursday for the voluntary use of helmets, passing a resolution encouraging riders to don the protective gear, the Seattle Times reported.

Seattle is the largest city in the country to enforce a bike helmet requirement, the New York Times reported, and is in King County which has made racial justice reform a priority and declared racism a public health crisis in 2020.

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Seattle officials have overturned a decades-old mandatory helmet law after a study found that black cyclists were four times as likely to be stopped as whites cyclists. Pictured: protesters protest the death of George Floyd in Seattle on June 1, 2020

Seattle drops bike helmet rule after finding it unfairly targeted people of color, homeless people | Daily Mail Online
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What if that study said that black people were 4 times more likely to kill people than white people? Would they change that law too then?
 
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#186
#186
PKT_VOL said:
While it is obviously good that they reversed a bad law, it is relevant that it was for the wrong reasons.
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Who's to say it's wrong for their community? If they used the same justification for drug laws would it still be wrong? Still getting to the right place
 
#187
#187
hUTch2002 said:
What if that study said that black people were 4 times more likely to kill people than white people? Would they change that law too then?
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Can you not see how ridiculous that question is? Where does a bike helmet violate the rights of another person?

It's really strange how so much mental gymnastics is done whenever race is mentioned
 
#188
#188
utvolpj said:
Can you not see how ridiculous that question is? Where does a bike helmet violate the rights of another person?

It's really strange how so much mental gymnastics is done whenever race is mentioned
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You arent arguing the facts of the matter. You are applying logic to excuse the apparent lack of logic.

Doesnt matter if the law was good, bad, or ugly; they used race as the justification. That's the fact.

The city didnt learn that the law was dumb because no ones rights were violated by lack of helmets. The city learned that race is a bigger factor than rights in their political world.

Seattle hasnt changed for the better because this law was removed. It's still the same place that is fine with dumb laws.
 
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#189
#189
LouderVol said:
You arent arguing the facts of the matter. You are applying logic to excuse the apparent lack of logic.

Doesnt matter if the law was good, bad, or ugly; they used race as the justification. That's the fact.

The city didnt learn that the law was dumb because no ones rights were violated by lack of helmets. The city learned that race is a bigger factor than rights in their political world.

Seattle hasnt changed for the better because this law was removed. It's still the same place that is fine with dumb laws.
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There were 117 tickets in over 4 years. This was about city leaders checking a feel good box. It's likely that their homeless is largely minority which led to the discrepancy. We've seen many instances of police targeting them because it's easy

Honestly I really don't care why it happens as long as dumb laws enforced only to drive revenue are removed.
 
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#190
#190
utvolpj said:
There were 117 tickets in over 4 years. This was about city leaders checking a feel good box. It's likely that their homeless is largely minority which led to the discrepancy. We've seen many instances of police targeting them because it's easy

Honestly I really don't care why it happens as long as dumb laws enforced only to drive revenue are removed.
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Really? 114 tickets over 4 years that targeted mostly homeless people was done to drive revenue?

The checking boxes is what lead to this. Them removing that law is just as symptomatic of the problem as the law was.
 
#191
#191
LouderVol said:
Really? 114 tickets over 4 years that targeted mostly homeless people was done to drive revenue?

The checking boxes is what lead to this. Them removing that law is just as symptomatic of the problem as the law was.
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If this wasn't being pushed by some UK tabloid spammer no one would know it happened. Bad revenue collection laws being removed is a positive. Really that simple
 
#192
#192
utvolpj said:
Who's to say it's wrong for their community? If they used the same justification for drug laws would it still be wrong? Still getting to the right place
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Yes, it would still be wrong.

We support it for individual freedom and small government reasons. They support it due to results which are not racially equal.

Although we like the outcomes of their logic in this instance (and probably with drugs laws if they were to apply it to them), we probably would not like other outcomes using their logic. If you live by that sword, don't be surprised when you die by that sword.
 
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#193
#193
PKT_VOL said:
Yes, it would still be wrong.

We support it for individual freedom and small government reasons. They support it due to results which are not racially equal.

Although we like the outcomes of their logic in this instance (and probably with drugs laws if they were to apply it to them), we probably would not like other outcomes using their logic. If you live by that sword, don't be surprised when you die by that sword.
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If they want to drop more bad laws because they claim it hurts black people then it still doesn't matter. Honestly there is some actual truth in some of those claims. As long as the get off the books I'm fine. I'm also strugglingb with how that could backfire wrt to removing bad law
 
#194
#194
utvolpj said:
Can you not see how ridiculous that question is? Where does a bike helmet violate the rights of another person?

It's really strange how so much mental gymnastics is done whenever race is mentioned
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Can you not see how dumb the premise is to begin with? I didn’t invoke race, those trying to make everything about race did. Of course it was a stupid question. That’s the point. The reason for the law change was stupid.
 
#195
#195
hUTch2002 said:
Can you not see how dumb the premise is to begin with? I didn’t invoke race, those trying to make everything about race did. Of course it was a stupid question. That’s the point. The reason for the law change was stupid.
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Likely just as stupid as why it was created.
 
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#196
#196
utvolpj said:
Likely just as stupid as why it was created.
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I don’t disagree there. I read your other comments back to louder and others. I understand where you’re coming from now. I just don’t trust that the geniuses running Seattle have enough sense to not use poor justification in other areas but, hey, I don’t live there so they can do what they like and I’ll enjoy East TN.
 
#197
#197
hUTch2002 said:
I don’t disagree there. I read your other comments back to louder and others. I understand where you’re coming from now. I just don’t trust that the geniuses running Seattle have enough sense to not use poor justification in other areas but, hey, I don’t live there so they can do what they like and I’ll enjoy East TN.
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Oh I don't either but if they're morons but still removing bad laws then I'm good. It's when they go the other way that will cause pain for residents of a city I too will never visit again
 
#198
#198
utvolpj said:
If they want to drop more bad laws because they claim it hurts black people then it still doesn't matter. Honestly there is some actual truth in some of those claims. As long as the get off the books I'm fine. I'm also strugglingb with how that could backfire wrt to removing bad law
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Removing the bad law won't backfire. Not criticizing the horrible logic could. It is an opportunity to explain the correct reasoning for why it is a bad law and hopefully pick up some converts for liberty.
 
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#199
#199
utvolpj said:
If they want to drop more bad laws because they claim it hurts black people then it still doesn't matter. Honestly there is some actual truth in some of those claims. As long as the get off the books I'm fine. I'm also strugglingb with how that could backfire wrt to removing bad law
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To PKT's point, it's dangerous logic that can start dropping good laws based on how it affects races--especially considering the relative basis for deciding which laws are good and which aren't.
 
#200
#200
Owner of Seattle bakery says she was forced to close her business because drug users were constantly blocking entrance to her store and police would do nothing to help: Slams woke city leaders for failing to tackle rampant crime

A Seattle bakery owner has slammed city leaders after she says she was forced to close her shop due to the record-breaking high levels of crime.

Piroshky Piroshky bakery owner Olga Sagan, 38, made the tough decision after she constantly found the entrance blocked with drug users who refused to move - and she says the Seattle Police Department did nothing to help.

Furious owner of Seattle bakery closes after citing excessive crime in the city | Daily Mail Online
 
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