SEC coaching shake up coming?

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

You're like a Jehovah's Witness or Amway salesman who just won't leave the porch until someone beats you to death with a garden hose.

Your jokes are worse than your reading and comprehension skills, and that's saying something.

 

[Stoerner Fumbles]

Your jokes are worse than your reading and comprehension skills, and that's saying something.

You just keep snorting meth and typing. It’s a real treat for everyone.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

You just keep snorting meth and typing. It’s a real treat for everyone.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

Well, well well...Old washed up Cal and his hoggies just beat a very good a top 15 team. I'd say that win is enough to get him in the NCAAT.
If so, what is that now, like 4 different Division 1 schools he has gotten into the big dance?
Not too many coaches can say that.
They don't look like the same team we pummeled early this season, either. It's almost as if it takes a little time to get your footing when you take a new coaching job.

A lot of chest beating about a team that just moved to 5-9 in conference play. Especially for a coach who very clearly has been on a downturn for years compared to where he once was.

 

[Delmar]

You're like a Jehovah's Witness or Amway salesman who just won't leave the porch until someone beats you to death with a garden hose.

I always told the JW’s that I’d only discuss religion if I was nekkid and then asked them to hang on while I got ready. Got ‘em off the porch every time.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

A lot of chest beating about a team that just moved to 5-9 in conference play. Especially for a coach who very clearly has been on a downturn for years compared to where he once was.

Not at all. I was just responding to this below, and saying it's looking more and more like Cal will make it to the dance in March.

one is probably “NIT bound,”

You said Cal is probably NIT bound. That's what you said.
You underestimate him, grasshopper.
He's lost one of his leading scorers and starting point guard, Boogie Fland. For him to even make it to the tournament this year would be pretty impressive.
Especially going forward if his next leading scorer Adou Thiero has to miss some games with injury following that impressive win against Missouri.

Deapite being down his star point guard, if he does just end making the court in NCAA March he will have made it as far as Pearl did last year lol.
You know, the guy that hasn't been out of the first weekend "this decade"? lol
and
The guy that certainly hasn't done this:

Pearl is consistently churning out good teams that rival or exceed what he has done in the past.

2008- Sweet 16
2010- Elite 8
2019- Final Four


Below Does not "rival or exceed" this above

(2020 & 2021 - Canceled/ Covid ( 13-14)
No point considering these for Pearl )

2022- First weekend exit
2023- First weekend exit
2024- First Game exit

 

[foolonthehill]

They haven’t had the recent success but I’d say so. They are still in the most basketball crazed region in the country. I wouldn’t compare them to a Nebraska football which is probably never returning to form.

Nebraska was pure steroids. They are never coming back. Indiana is close to falling out of 10th place in all time wins.

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

Not at all. I was just responding to this below, and saying it's looking more and more like Cal will make it to the dance in March.



You said Cal is probably NIT bound. That's what you said.
You underestimate him, grasshopper.
He's lost one of his leading scorers and starting point guard, Boogie Fland. For him to even make it to the tournament this year would be pretty impressive.
Especially going forward if his next leading scorer Adou Thiero has to miss some games with injury following that impressive win against Missouri.

Deapite being down his star point guard, if he does just end making the court in NCAA March he will have made it as far as Pearl did last year lol.
You know, the guy that hasn't been out of the first weekend "this decade"? lol
and
The guy that certainly hasn't done this:


2008- Sweet 16
2010- Elite 8
2019- Final Four


Below Does not "rival or exceed" this above

(2020 & 2021 - Canceled/ Covid ( 13-14)
No point considering these for Pearl )

2022- First weekend exit
2023- First weekend exit
2024- First Game exit

You are arguing Calipari hasn’t experienced a downturn while simultaneously saying that if he even makes the tournament, that is impressive. If you don’t realize the stupidity and irony in that statement, there is no helping you.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

You are arguing Calipari hasn’t experienced a downturn while simultaneously saying that if he even makes the tournament, that is impressive. If you don’t realize the stupidity and irony in that statement, there is no helping you.

Cal is at a new school. He's down his starting point guard. May be down his best shooting guard, too. You take ZZ away from us early in confernce play and you don't think it's impressive to still make the tournament then I don't know what to tell you. You're just dumb, and that's your problem.

As far as Cal and his "downturn", I never argued he hasn't underperformed NCAAT the last 3 years. What I actually argued was it's just 3 years and no different than Bruce Pearl underperforming the last 3 years. Which I noticed you didn't try to refute me showing his " downturn" in NCAAT play, btw.
He certainly hasn't " rivaled" or exceeded what he has done in the past. I hope we have put that silly part of your argument to bed.

Moreover, it's silly to pretend Cal's best days are behind because he started caring about getting more about getting guys to the NBA than winning in March. Coaches can have off years. Look at Rick Patino this year, I'm sure you would have argued his "best days were behind him", too. lol

 

[LegionnaireOfTheMiserable]

Cal is at a new school. He's down his starting point guard. May be down his best shooting guard, too. You take ZZ away from us early in confernce play and you don't think it's impressive to still make the tournament then I don't know what to tell you. You're just dumb, and that's your problem.

As far as Cal and his "downturn", I never argued he hasn't underperformed NCAAT the last 3 years. What I actually argued was it's just 3 years and no different than Bruce Pearl underperforming the last 3 years. Which I noticed you didn't try to refute me showing his " downturn" in NCAAT play, btw.
He certainly hasn't " rivaled" or exceeded what he has done in the past. I hope we have put that silly part of your argument to bed.

Moreover, it's silly to pretend Cal's best days are behind because he started caring about getting more about getting guys to the NBA than winning in March. Coaches can have off years. Look at Rick Patino this year, I'm sure you would have argued his "best days were behind him", too. lol

Pitino’s best days are behind him. Cal’s best days are behind him. Pitino is a much better floor coach than Cal though.

In any case, Cal hasn’t been churning out NBA players like he used to in either quantity or quality, so saying his focus on sending guys to the NBA is why he hasn’t had as much tournament success just further serves to make you look like you have no clue what you’re talking about. I’m done discussing this topic that is blatantly obvious to everyone on Earth but the one stubborn fool who is still slurping on Cal’s little cannoli, though, so I hope you enjoy the 1 seed in the NIT and it reminds you of the Golden Years.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

Pitino’s best days are behind him. Cal’s best days are behind him. Pitino is a much better floor coach than Cal though.

In any case, Cal hasn’t been churning out NBA players like he used to in either quantity or quality, so saying his focus on sending guys to the NBA is why he hasn’t had as much tournament success just further serves to make you look like you have no clue what you’re talking about. I’m done discussing this topic that is blatantly obvious to everyone on Earth but the one stubborn fool who is still slurping on Cal’s little cannoli, though, so I hope you enjoy the 1 seed in the NIT and it reminds you of the Golden Years.

Patino currently has the #10 team in the nation and just stomped the defending NCAAT champions.
He's revived yet ANOTHER school/program!
You're a clown, man. A hater to boot.

No current team has more current players on a NBA roster than Kentucky. Nobody.
The reason for this is coach Cal. This is facts.

Auburn returned a massive chunk of their team from last year. Cal consistently did not have this in his favor at Kentucky. It's a huge advantage to have many experienced guys on your roster.
Especially in the Front court.

Like Patino, Cal will eventually end up making a run in the next couple of years. Patino didn't have the best season at St. John last year. That's becasue it's hard for even greater coaches to win in year one of a new school.

Like making the NCAAT this year despite being down a starting point guard, I will mark this thread to come back to tell you I told you so when he has success in the next couple years, too.
d-bag.

 

[VolCalls]

Patino currently has the #10 team in the nation and just stomped the defending NCAAT champions.
He's revived yet ANOTHER school/program!
You're a clown, man. A hater to boot.

No current team has more current players on a NBA roster than Kentucky. Nobody.
The reason for this is coach Cal. This is facts.

Auburn returned a massive chunk of their team from last year. Cal consistently did not have this in his favor at Kentucky. It's a huge advantage to have many experienced guys on your roster.
Especially in the Front court.

Like Patino, Cal will eventually end up making a run in the next couple of years. Patino didn't have the best season at St. John last year. That's becasue it's hard for even greater coaches to win in year one of a new school.

Like making the NCAAT this year despite being down a starting point guard, I will mark this thread to come back to tell you I told you so when he has success in the next couple years, too.
d-bag.

Pitino. Not Patino.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

Pitino. Not Patino.

Pitino -Patato.
Still a hell of a coach. %

 

[VolGee4]

This all made my head hurt.

But Calipari has 2 projected NBA picks, 3 other players that were top 30 national recruits, the AAC co-player of the year in 2024, a second team All-SEC player in 2024, a returner that averaged 8.6 and 6 last year, and Big Z. Results are impressive?

The difference in Cal and Pitino is coaching- no other way to say it.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

This all made my head hurt.

But Calipari has 2 projected NBA picks, 3 other players that were top 30 national recruits, the AAC co-player of the year in 2024, a second team All-SEC player in 2024, a returner that averaged 8.6 and 6 last year, and Big Z. Results are impressive?

The difference in Cal and Pitino is coaching- no other way to say it.

Nobody is even necessarily arguing who is better Cal or Pitino, dude. I don't know where you come up with that.

 

[VolGee4]

Nobody is even necessarily arguing who is better Cal or Pitino, dude. I don't know where you come up with that.

I saw a bunch, but you suggested that Cal making it to the NCAAT would be impressive. Regardless of Boogie Fland, he has a talented roster. Cal just isn’t a great floor coach. I was just commenting on the thread- sorry it wasn’t in agreement.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

I saw a bunch, but you suggested that Cal making it to the NCAAT would be impressive. Regardless of Boogie Fland, he has a talented roster. Cal just isn’t a great floor coach. I was just commenting on the thread- sorry it wasn’t in agreement.

I don't mind anyone disagreeing with what I've said, so long as it is what I said.
Pitino would be on my list if I could pick any top coaches in modern era.
I digress.
Arkansas lost one of it's star starting players. That will ultimately affect the chances of any team. Cal has has some athletes that have stepped up, but that is more a testament to his recruiting prowess han anything else. He has managed to put together a pretty decent line up in spite of the fact.
I know if we lost our starting point it would affect us. It's affected Kentucky this year, too.

 

[VolGee4]

I don't mind anyone disagreeing with what I've said, so long as it is what I said.
Pitino would be on my list if I could pick any top coaches in modern era.
I digress.
Arkansas lost one of it's star starting players. That will ultimately affect the chances of any team. Cal has has some athletes that have stepped up, but that is more a testament to his recruitment than anything else.
I know if we lost our starting point it would affect us. It's affected Kentucky this year, too.

They had lost 5 straight and were 11-7 when he got injured, including at LSU. He has 2 veteran guards.

Davis, Aidoo, and Brazille are all down in production, and 2 were all conference players last year.

 

[VolCalls]

I don't mind anyone disagreeing with what I've said, so long as it is what I said.
Pitino would be on my list if I could pick any top coaches in modern era.
I digress.
Arkansas lost one of it's star starting players. That will ultimately affect the chances of any team. Cal has has some athletes that have stepped up, but that is more a testament to his recruiting prowess han anything else. He has managed to put together a pretty decent line up in spite of the fact.
I know if we lost our starting point it would affect us. It's affected Kentucky this year, too.

I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a second with an example that it can be done despite adjusting to a new place or having key players out. Pat Kelsey brought in an entire new roster at Louisville and lost two starters, including his top scorer, to season-ending injuries in November. They currently sit 2nd in the ACC and are ranked 19th in the country at 21-6, having won 15 of their last 16. I realize we’re talking about the SEC vs the ACC this year but they have not used having a new coach, new roster, or key injuries as an excuse.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

They had lost 5 straight and were 11-7 when he got injured, including at LSU. He has 2 veteran guards.

Davis, Aidoo, and Brazille are all down in production, and 2 were all conference players last year

He's at a brand new program and happened to get off to a bad start in conference play in a historically strong conference after going 11-3 out of conference. This year isn't your Daddy's SEC, btw. On top of that, he lost his star point guard that pretty much had the same ppg game average as the leading scorer ( 15+ ppg). That's a hit anyway you slice it. The guy was a top 20 scorer in the SEC and lead his team in assists before he got injured.

I guarantee you if they could get him back right now, they would be a much better team. You know as well as I do that's the case. Arguing they wouldn't benefit from a healthy Boogie Fland back on the roster is a really strange argument. If nothing else, they could use him coming off the bench.

A lot of coaches in their first year of a new school might have just folded up for the season after a bad Conference start and losing a star player/point guard like Fland.
Not Coach Cal, tho.
He fired his guys up and got that huge win in Rupp this year ( something we couldn't do). From there , they have been playing a lot better whilst simultaneously starting to gel as a team. All this knowing Boggie Fland won't be returning this year. Not too shabby, bro.

Speaking of not too shabby, that Missouri win was impressive in itself. You and some others may not admit it, but I think you know it even if you won't say it out loud.
They hung right with Auburn and Alabama right to the end recently, too. Had a lead on Auburn at Auburn with just a couple mins or so left.

If they end up making the tournament ( and I believe they will) I won't be surprised at all if they make a little noise. Build off of that, get some guys back, and weave in the two Top-10,
5-star recruits they have coming in. I guarantee you they are markedly better next year.
Wait and see.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

I’m going to play devil’s advocate for a second with an example that it can be done despite adjusting to a new place or having key players out. Pat Kelsey brought in an entire new roster at Louisville and lost two starters, including his top scorer, to season-ending injuries in November. They currently sit 2nd in the ACC and are ranked 19th in the country at 21-6, having won 15 of their last 16. I realize we’re talking about the SEC vs the ACC this year but they have not used having a new coach, new roster, or key injuries as an excuse.

"Going to play devil’s advocate "
Never Simp for the devil, dude.

I never said a coach cannot or hasn't been able to have success after they lose a star player ( in this case star point guard which usually is a lot tougher). It can and does happen, especially in weaker conferences like you mentioned. Even occasionally in a coach's first year.
My point was it adds quite a bit of degree of difficulty, and certainly isn't the norm.
Also remember the season isn't over yet.
No matter how he got there, Cal has put together a line-up that works minus his star point guard.
It's possible he could make a little noise come March. I think that's impressive even if you or somebody else might not.

Speaking of bouncing back after a bad stretch in conference, if you remember the 2013-14 KY season, Cal lost three of their last 4 games going down the stretch. Things were looking a little more bleak at that point, and Coach Cal got that team back on track and ended up getting all the way to the National Championship game against UConn.

With coaches like Cal, it's better never to count them out. Especially saying something like they are washed up or that their better days are necessarily behind them.
Cal has repeated his success at more than one program. There is nothing that says he can't do it again and ultimately have success at Arkansas.
Look at Pearl, he's had some unimpressive post season NCAAT play the last several years, and this year things are looking a lot better for him.

Again, look at a top coach like Rick Pitino. I can't count the number of people that said he was washed up.
And look at him now?! He's got a very hot St. John's team hitting on all cylinders right before NCAAT time. That's also pretty freaking impressive in his second year there if you ask me.

 

[VolGee4]

He's at a brand new program and happened to get off to a bad start in conference play in a historically strong conference after going 11-3 out of conference. This year isn't your Daddy's SEC, btw. On top of that, he lost his star point guard that pretty much had the same ppg game average as the leading scorer ( 15+ ppg). That's a hit anyway you slice it. The guy was a top 20 scorer in the SEC and lead his team in assists before he got injured.

I guarantee you if they could get him back right now, they would be a much better team. You know as well as I do that's the case. Arguing they wouldn't benefit from a healthy Boogie Fland back on the roster is a really strange argument. If nothing else, they could use him coming off the bench.

A lot of coaches in their first year of a new school might have just folded up for the season after a bad Conference start and losing a star player/point guard like Fland.
Not Coach Cal, tho.
He fired his guys up and got that huge win in Rupp this year ( something we couldn't do). From there , they have been playing a lot better whilst simultaneously starting to gel as a team. All this knowing Boggie Fland won't be returning this year. Not too shabby, bro.

Speaking of not too shabby, that Missouri win was impressive in itself. You and some others may not admit it, but I think you know it even if you won't say it out loud.
They hung right with Auburn and Alabama right to the end recently, too. Had a lead on Auburn at Auburn with just a couple mins or so left.

If they end up making the tournament ( and I believe they will) I won't be surprised at all if they make a little noise. Build off of that, get some guys back, and weave in the two 10 ten 5-star recruits they have coming in. I guarantee you they are markedly better next year.
Wait and see.

First, I never said they would benefit from losing Fland. Not sure how you got that out of it. However, he has better overall talent than UT does even with losing Fland. But that’s been Cal the last 6 years- nothing to show for the talent he’s had. He won the regular season when Covid shut everything down and has no regular season or tournament titles since.

Second, beating Missouri is fine- good for him. But the fact that we are talking about John Calipari and being impressive that they beat Missouri is the very essence of why this is hilarious. He has more on his roster that will play in the NBA or has individual award hardware, and it’s not close. It would be interesting to discuss flipping the coaches for each team.

I don’t care that he went to a new school. He went 35-3 at UK the first year after leaving Memphis. Tougher schedule and before NIL and free transfers. He did take recruits with him just like Arkansas.

I wouldn’t have automatically expected competing for the conference, but he’s 15-11 and 5-9 with an expensive roster. I’m fairly certain that Arkansas fans are disappointed. It’s really not impressive. He will lose Fland, Davis, Aidoo, Thero, and maybe Wagner. He will bring in talent, and he may win some games, but the last 6-7 years are proving that the talent can’t overcome the coaching.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

First, I never said they would benefit from losing Fland. Not sure how you got that out of it. However, he has better overall talent than UT does even with losing Fland. But that’s been Cal the last 6 years- nothing to show for the talent he’s had. He won the regular season when Covid shut everything down and has no regular season or tournament titles since.

Second, beating Missouri is fine- good for him. But the fact that we are talking about John Calipari and being impressive that they beat Missouri is the very essence of why this is hilarious. He has more on his roster that will play in the NBA or has individual award hardware, and it’s not close.

I don’t care that he went to a new school. He went 35-3 at UK the first year after leaving Memphis. Tougher schedule and before NIL and free transfers. He did take recruits with him just like Arkansas.

I wouldn’t have automatically expected competing for the conference, but he’s 15-11 and 5-9 with an expensive roster. I’m fairly certain that Arkansas fans are disappointed. It’s really not impressive. He will lose Fland, Davis, Aidoo, Thero, and maybe Wagner. He will bring in talent, and he may win some games, but the last 6-7 years are proving that the talent can’t overcome the coaching.

6-7 years .....
You said yourself he won the season title in 2020! It's not his fault the rest of the season was canceled. lol
2021 was a pretty f'ed up year for everybody.
There was a deadly pandemic that greatly affected college basketball that year.
As already mentioned, Bruce Pearl went 13-14 that year. To count that year against any coach is a bit silly, bro. Surely, unlike the other guy, you're going to be fair and admit this? Right?

So we talking about 3 years looking back. 3 years, man.
I have already stated that despite still averging 24 regular season wins in those 3 years, he did end up underperforming in post season NCAAT.
It happens. Just ask Bruce Pearl that underperformed as well in those same 3 years post season NCAAT. If you ask him what happened to him in post season NCAAT the last 3 years he's going to tell you, " I underperformed. It happens, man. Even to us Top coaches".

We are now in this year where he has had to set up shop at a new school. Yes, he's an excellent recruiter, so he got some of the Kentucky commits to come to Arkansas, but they still had to mingle/gel with the guys from last year/ new guys he brought in. This can take some time, guy.
It doesn't happen overnight and sometimes it's on into conference play before this necessarily occurs. Whilst waiting for this to happen, it just so happened he lost one of his leading scorers/top point guard. As you agree, that's a big loss.
No matter how you slice it, it's going to affect the team.

So in short, we are down to one season in regards to the original discussion that started this whole train wreck of a debate.

A season that isn't necessarily over yet. lol
It looks like he will be in the NCAAT , and we have no idea how it could all play out.
Anyone saying Cal is washed and his best days are behind him ( which has been echoed by many in this debate) don't know necessarily that.
Like I said, similar things were said about Rick Pitino.

 

[VolGee4]

6-7 years .....
You said yourself he won the confernce title in 2020! It's not his fault the rest of the season was canceled. lol
2021 was a pretty f'ed up year for everybody.
There was a deadly pandemic that greatly affected college basketball that year.
As already mentioned, Bruce Pearl went 13-14 that year. To count that year against any coach is a bit silly, bro. Surely, unlike the other guy, you're going to be fair and admit this? Right?

So we talking about 3 years looking back. 3 years, man.
I have already stated that despite still averging 24 regular season wins in those 3 years, he did end up underperforming in post season NCAAT.
It happens. Just ask Bruce Pearl that underperformed as well in those same 3 years post season NCAAT. If you ask him what happened to him in post season NCAAT the last 3 years he's going to tell you, " I underperformed. It happens, man. Even to us Top coaches".

We are now in this year where he has had to set up shop at a new school. Yes, he's an excellent recruiter, so he got some of the Kentucky commits to come to Arkansas, but they still had to mingle/gel with the guys from last year/ new guys he brought in. This can take some time, guy.
It doesn't happen overnight and sometimes it's on into conference play before this necessarily occurs. Whilst waiting for this to happen, it just so happened he lost one of his leading scorers/top point guard. As you agree, that's a big loss.
No matter how you slice it, it's going to affect the team.

So in short, we are down to one season in regards to the original discussion that started this whole train wreck of a debate.

A season that isn't necessarily over yet. lol
It looks like he will be in the NCAAT , and we have no idea how it could all play out.
Anyone saying Cal is washed and his best days are behind him ( which has been echoed by many in this debate) don't know necessarily that.
Like I said, similar things were said about Rick Pitino.

Agree to disagree. No need to discuss anymore. You can still say he’s a good coach, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that his best days are behind him. I think that’s pretty clear. This place would be a disaster if Barnes had his results the last 5 years with 8 NBA draft picks.

BTW, he went to the Elite Eight in 2019 but didn’t win the regular season or tournament….with PJ Washington, Tyler Herro, and Keldon Johnson. Rick tied him for 2nd and beat him in the conference tournament. So, yea, 6-7 years.

 

[Anti-shunshinepumper]

Agree to disagree. No need to discuss anymore. You can still say he’s a good coach, but I don’t think there’s any doubt that his best days are behind him. I think that’s pretty clear. This place would be a disaster if Barnes had his results the last 5 years with 8 NBA draft picks.

No worries, you're entitled to your opinion.
Cal has been a victim of his own success.
It's not that I some Coach Cal lover, bro.
The original guy made a claim in regards that made it sound like Pearl had been lighting it up the last several years in comparison. I just made the mistake of setting him straight/pointing out that's not necessarily the case. I never dreamed he would have such a hard time coping.

A lot of people have this false memory of Pearl in their mind. He actually hasn't did much of anything post NCAAT since he made it to the final 4 several years back.