SEC Shorts Season Ending Awards

#26
#26
I would say that the greatest of all time is really subjective as you have to look at coaches during the time period that they coached and to say that the time frame that the General coached was the same as the time period that Saban coached in would be a fallacy.

Just like a championship team in 1950's would do against a so so team currently.

Things change and you can say that the General was greatest coach during his time period and that Saban was the greatest coach during his time period, but it is not apples to apples as the rules, athletes and attitudes are totally different.
 
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#29
#29
Bear Bryant ,while still a turd , was a better coach and seemingly a good man. Bear , knute, Saban and Neyland. Just my opinion. I think given time as much as it pains me to say I think Kirby will top them all. I forgot Tom Osborne and Bobby bowden . I can keep going. Red Grange, Alonzo Stagg . Stagg may be the best. He absolutely revolutionary . Probably the most influential up to the 70 or 80s when the game started changing. I would Saban is the best this century but short- sighted to say he is the best with no arguments.
 
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#30
#30
DiderotsGhost said:
Saban is obviously one of the greats, but I agree --- I wouldn't call him "the GOAT" --- just the GOAT of the 21st Century. Winning 7 national titles is crazy, but his methodology wouldn't have worked in the 20s, 60s, 80s, or even the 90s. What he did was perfect the accumulation of blue-chip national talent, but that wasn't something you could realistically do before the modern era. A coach in Tuscaloosa couldn't scout out all the high school football games in LA or Dallas back in 1968. Saban still would've been a good coach in the 70s or 80s, but he wouldn't have won 7 national titles. He wouldn't have been able to recruit half the players he did in the modern era.

For my money, Tom Osborne is #1 all-time. There's no real reason Nebraska shouldn't be Kansas. What Tom Osborne (and Bob Delaney before him) did there was absurd! Osborne won 3 national titles as HC and 2 as OC at Nebraska, a school basically in the middle of nowhere. He never won less than 9 games in 25 seasons. That shouldn't even be possible at Nebraska. The only reason we think that's normal is because Delaney and Osborne. Replace Delaney, you don't get Osborne, and Nebraska football looks more like Kansas football historically. The fact that pretty much no one has even come close to replicating the success of Osborne is a testament to just how difficult it is to win in Lincoln.

Though, I will say it's almost impossible to rank across eras, because different skill sets were dominant in different eras. I think we have GOATs of different eras and that's it.
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My dude, all the NC before the BCS were so subjective and can’t even fairly compare most to the winners today. The #1 team could play the #8 team and be declared a champion. #2 team could beat the #12 and be declared co-champion. He11, before 1965 the bowl games weren’t even a factor. Journalist were awarding championships based on the regular season in an era when only a few dozen games were even shown on TV.

There also wasn’t scholarship restrictions so yeah, a coach could load up a team with all the best talent in their region and many would never get to play. And there was jokes that players took pay cuts to got Pro back in those days.

As much as you are arguing Saban couldn’t have done it in the old days, there is equal chance the best coaches of those times couldn’t do it today.
 
#31
#31
BenGrimm said:
My dude, all the NC before the BCS were so subjective and can’t even fairly compare most to the winners today. The #1 team could play the #8 team and be declared a champion. #2 team could beat the #12 and be declared co-champion. He11, before 1965 the bowl games weren’t even a factor. Journalist were awarding championships based on the regular season in an era when only a few dozen games were even shown on TV.

There also wasn’t scholarship restrictions so yeah, a coach could load up a team with all the best talent in their region and many would never get to play. And there was jokes that players took pay cuts to got Pro back in those days.

As much as you are arguing Saban couldn’t have done it in the old days, there is equal chance the best coaches of those times couldn’t do it today.
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There's really no comparison in size and speed also.

How would Saban have coached without the massive humans and world class speed? How would Rockne have coached with such players?

The game and the coaching revolves around the skills available. Assuming a coach who never had to coach with or against another coach's gifts and limitations is pretty silly.

Hyatt would've been useless and undersized to General Neyland because he disliked the forward pass.

It's nowhere near comparable games.
 
#32
#32
As DG and a few others among y'all are pointing out, absolutely, the game evolves. What coaches have to master today is different than what they had to be able to do before. Each era is unique.

But one thing is always true: they always compete against a bunch of other fellas who are inside the same world as them.

Given that, win rate, and total victories over a lifetime, and national titles, they can compare logically across eras. They are a fair way to judge a coach from the mid-1900s, say, against one in the early 2000s.

That's what I really like about those three stats. They are the perfect yardsticks for head coaches.

Go Vols!
 
#33
#33
You guys need to separate your hatred of Bama fans from the coach of those fans.
College football will be less without him.
It’s like when Darth Vader dies or something - yeah, it’s great and all, but it ain’t gonna be the same movie anymore.
It was just like this when Bryant retired.
Lemme put it like this - beating Saban is a lot more fun than beating Mike Dubose or Mike Shula.
 
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#34
#34
Hulavol said:
You guys need to separate your hatred of Bama fans from the coach of those fans.
College football will be less without him.
It’s like when Darth Vader dies or something - yeah, it’s great and all, but it ain’t gonna be the same movie anymore.
It was just like this when Bryant retired.
Lemme put it like this - beating Saban is a lot more fun than beating Mike Dubose or Mike Shula.
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Yah, but is beating Saban once in a decade and a half better than beating Dubose or Shula 8 or 9 times in the same time period?

I mean, even if beating Shula is just one-fourth as fun as beating Saban, one-fourth times 9 equals a lot more than one times one.

It's math, brother.

Heh.

Go Vols!
 
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#35
#35
DiderotsGhost said:
Saban is obviously one of the greats, but I agree --- I wouldn't call him "the GOAT" --- just the GOAT of the 21st Century. Winning 7 national titles is crazy, but his methodology wouldn't have worked in the 20s, 60s, 80s, or even the 90s. What he did was perfect the accumulation of blue-chip national talent, but that wasn't something you could realistically do before the modern era. A coach in Tuscaloosa couldn't scout out all the high school football games in LA or Dallas back in 1968. Saban still would've been a good coach in the 70s or 80s, but he wouldn't have won 7 national titles. He wouldn't have been able to recruit half the players he did in the modern era.

For my money, Tom Osborne is #1 all-time. There's no real reason Nebraska shouldn't be Kansas. What Tom Osborne (and Bob Delaney before him) did there was absurd! Osborne won 3 national titles as HC and 2 as OC at Nebraska, a school basically in the middle of nowhere. He never won less than 9 games in 25 seasons. That shouldn't even be possible at Nebraska. The only reason we think that's normal is because Delaney and Osborne. Replace Delaney, you don't get Osborne, and Nebraska football looks more like Kansas football historically. The fact that pretty much no one has even come close to replicating the success of Osborne is a testament to just how difficult it is to win in Lincoln.

Though, I will say it's almost impossible to rank across eras, because different skill sets were dominant in different eras. I think we have GOATs of different eras and that's it.
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Those Nebraska teams were good because they were on the forefront of the largest steroid and PED coverups in history. There you go.
 
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#37
#37
DiderotsGhost said:
Saban is obviously one of the greats, but I agree --- I wouldn't call him "the GOAT" --- just the GOAT of the 21st Century. Winning 7 national titles is crazy, but his methodology wouldn't have worked in the 20s, 60s, 80s, or even the 90s. What he did was perfect the accumulation of blue-chip national talent, but that wasn't something you could realistically do before the modern era. A coach in Tuscaloosa couldn't scout out all the high school football games in LA or Dallas back in 1968. Saban still would've been a good coach in the 70s or 80s, but he wouldn't have won 7 national titles. He wouldn't have been able to recruit half the players he did in the modern era.

For my money, Tom Osborne is #1 all-time. There's no real reason Nebraska shouldn't be Kansas. What Tom Osborne (and Bob Delaney before him) did there was absurd! Osborne won 3 national titles as HC and 2 as OC at Nebraska, a school basically in the middle of nowhere. He never won less than 9 games in 25 seasons. That shouldn't even be possible at Nebraska. The only reason we think that's normal is because Delaney and Osborne. Replace Delaney, you don't get Osborne, and Nebraska football looks more like Kansas football historically. The fact that pretty much no one has even come close to replicating the success of Osborne is a testament to just how difficult it is to win in Lincoln.

Though, I will say it's almost impossible to rank across eras, because different skill sets were dominant in different eras. I think we have GOATs of different eras and that's it.
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I dont agree about Osborne being #1. I do think its not really possible to equivocate coaches from vastly different eras. They measure a yardstick of items SEC championship games, etc that didnt exist in some eras. The game imo was just too different imo.

Saban is clearly in the top of the pantheon though and certainly the king of the modern era.
 
#40
#40
aaronvol said:
Those Nebraska teams were good because they were on the forefront of the largest steroid and PED coverups in history. There you go.
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Matched with new periodized strength and power regimens borrowed from the USSR athletes and trainers; conjoined with plyometrics that were relatively unknown as training tools in the US
 
#42
#42
DiderotsGhost said:
Saban is obviously one of the greats, but I agree --- I wouldn't call him "the GOAT" --- just the GOAT of the 21st Century. Winning 7 national titles is crazy, but his methodology wouldn't have worked in the 20s, 60s, 80s, or even the 90s. What he did was perfect the accumulation of blue-chip national talent, but that wasn't something you could realistically do before the modern era. A coach in Tuscaloosa couldn't scout out all the high school football games in LA or Dallas back in 1968. Saban still would've been a good coach in the 70s or 80s, but he wouldn't have won 7 national titles. He wouldn't have been able to recruit half the players he did in the modern era.

For my money, Tom Osborne is #1 all-time. There's no real reason Nebraska shouldn't be Kansas. What Tom Osborne (and Bob Delaney before him) did there was absurd! Osborne won 3 national titles as HC and 2 as OC at Nebraska, a school basically in the middle of nowhere. He never won less than 9 games in 25 seasons. That shouldn't even be possible at Nebraska. The only reason we think that's normal is because Delaney and Osborne. Replace Delaney, you don't get Osborne, and Nebraska football looks more like Kansas football historically. The fact that pretty much no one has even come close to replicating the success of Osborne is a testament to just how difficult it is to win in Lincoln.

Though, I will say it's almost impossible to rank across eras, because different skill sets were dominant in different eras. I think we have GOATs of different eras and that's it.
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This. The obsession with naming one “GOAT” in anything is a folly in and of itself.
 
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#44
#44
DiderotsGhost said:
Saban is obviously one of the greats, but I agree --- I wouldn't call him "the GOAT" --- just the GOAT of the 21st Century. Winning 7 national titles is crazy, but his methodology wouldn't have worked in the 20s, 60s, 80s, or even the 90s. What he did was perfect the accumulation of blue-chip national talent, but that wasn't something you could realistically do before the modern era. A coach in Tuscaloosa couldn't scout out all the high school football games in LA or Dallas back in 1968. Saban still would've been a good coach in the 70s or 80s, but he wouldn't have won 7 national titles. He wouldn't have been able to recruit half the players he did in the modern era.

For my money, Tom Osborne is #1 all-time. There's no real reason Nebraska shouldn't be Kansas. What Tom Osborne (and Bob Delaney before him) did there was absurd! Osborne won 3 national titles as HC and 2 as OC at Nebraska, a school basically in the middle of nowhere. He never won less than 9 games in 25 seasons. That shouldn't even be possible at Nebraska. The only reason we think that's normal is because Delaney and Osborne. Replace Delaney, you don't get Osborne, and Nebraska football looks more like Kansas football historically. The fact that pretty much no one has even come close to replicating the success of Osborne is a testament to just how difficult it is to win in Lincoln.

Though, I will say it's almost impossible to rank across eras, because different skill sets were dominant in different eras. I think we have GOATs of different eras and that's it.
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He is the GOAT he is gone now so we can admit it out loud now. not a single one of the coaches from the 20's 60's 80's or 90's could have done what he did. Portal, NIL, Social media? Bear Bryants head would explode.
 
#48
#48
fossilfiction said:
Brother, Tennessee should boat race them, but your a fool to expect it at this point.
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THIS!!!

That team was awful last year. Arkansas went into the swamp and beat them, but they murdered us.

It was an absolute dog fight against them in 2022, and to say their team wasn't in the same league as our team isn't accurate. They weren't even on the same planet, and still gave us all we wanted.
 
#49
#49
fossilfiction said:
Neyland can number one in our hearts (I only have stats and some run down game highlights to go off, but only a blind man fails to see what Saban accomplished and not say he was the GOAT concerning college football head coaches.
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Two bad takes in a row from the fossil.
 
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