Several NCAA asst basketball coaches arrested

#177
#177
College Basketball is a dirty business.

Calipari, Pitino, Self, R. Williams, Coach K, Pearl, have never been clean coaches.

Money or some sort of expenses have always been handed out to recruits.

TBH, this isn't even news. Unfortunately some coaches are lucky to not be caught.
 
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#178
#178
Perhaps a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway: is it actually that college basketball is dirtier than college football with respect to paying players? After all, it would seem to make sense given how important one guy can be to a team in basketball.

What got the government involved in this, and what makes it a felony, is the bribery aspect of it. As others have mentioned the apparel companies are nowhere near as involved in football as they are in basketball and I've gotten the impression that paying college football players is certainly systematic, but much more informal (e.g., a player is being recruited by the coaching staff, they leave, and then the apparatus of wealthy boosters and their bag men come in and "take care" of guys with cash).

If that is the case, football's way of cheating is much better than basketball's. A much smaller group of people is involved, the coaches are never directly involved (unless you're dumb like Ole Miss), and it is well-organized but relatively informal compared to basketball. When you start getting apparel people, agents, and other third parties involved, you're going to have problems.
 
#179
#179
VolFreakJosh said:
College Basketball is a dirty business.

Calipari, Pitino, R. Williams, Coach K, Pearl, have never been clean coaches.

Money or some sort of expenses have always been handed out to recruits.

TBH, this isn't even news. Unfortunately some coaches are lucky to not be caught.
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The thing is I think we all know programs cheat. I'm sure all these D1 kids know where or who to go to when they want something. But it crosses a line and gets worse when programs are taking bribes/funneling money through another company, etc. That's why the FBI is now getting involved.

There's a giant difference in handing money to recruits through boosters or whatever and having staff members/coaches work with 3rd parties handling thousands of dollars all attempting to funnel recruits to certain schools and companies.
 
#180
#180
One thing that's different is that it is much easier for one player to be the difference in Bball. It's easier to predict who will make the pros. The AAU stuff makes it easier to meet, connect with, evaluate talent outside of the academic world. Most players who make the NBA as starters are good candidates for endorsement deals, etc.

So, it's a lower risk proposition to take risks to get your hooks in a particular player and the agent/financial advisor side and athletic sponsor side both have higher incentives to focus on Bball.

Football cheating is more tied to boosters rather than people aiming to make money off the players. There are probably more big time football boosters than basketball so there's plenty of cash but I'd argue it's more about "investing" in your favorite team to get them to win as opposed to "investing" in a future potential revenue source.
 
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#181
#181
05_never_again said:
Perhaps a dumb question, but I'll ask anyway: is it actually that college basketball is dirtier than college football with respect to paying players? After all, it would seem to make sense given how important one guy can be to a team in basketball.
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Well you said it, part of the reason is the choices of one or two recruits in basketball can single-handily have giant impacts. In football you don't have the equivalent of an AAU structure. Sure, you have big time schools that get players, but in basketball you have the best players constantly moving around and participating in AAU tournaments where everything is funded by big time companies who obviously have an interest in getting close to players who will be in the NBA two years later. In football, even the best players will be at college for 3 or 4 years.

05_never_again said:
...I've gotten the impression that paying college football players is certainly systematic, but much more informal (e.g., a player is being recruited by the coaching staff, they leave, and then the apparatus of wealthy boosters and their bag men come in and "take care" of guys with cash).

If that is the case, football's way of cheating is much better than basketball's. A much smaller group of people is involved, the coaches are never directly involved (unless you're dumb like Ole Miss), and it is well-organized but relatively informal compared to basketball. When you start getting apparel people, agents, and other third parties involved, you're going to have problems.
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I'm fairly sure every program has the people who players know they can go to. The coaches know the situation and are fine with it. I doubt every school needs to cross the line and get involved with cheating to this degree. I also doubt every single big time recruit is willing to take blatant bribes. And this hasn't been talked about much, but I'd be willing to bet some of these recruits involved aren't just randomly being offered money. Some Cam Newton-esque type stuff going on as well.
 
#182
#182
LittleCat said:
In football you don't have the equivalent of an AAU structure. Sure, you have big time schools that get players, but in basketball you have the best players constantly moving around and participating in AAU tournaments where everything is funded by big time companies who obviously have an interest in getting close to players who will be in the NBA two years later.
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No, but you do have the 7 on 7s. If I were the FBI and wanted to see if this kind of stuff goes on in college football, I would start there.

I agree though that not every single big time recruit is taking bribes. Getting cash from boosters via $500 handshakes, sure.
 
#183
#183
Rick Pitino could be in some serious trouble.

After the FBI announced its investigation into an NCAA corruption scheme earlier this week, the Louisville head coach was identified as "Coach 2" in federal court documents that claim he played a role in sending illegal payments to the family of a highly-touted recruit, CBS News' Dana Jacobson reports.

Prosecutors allege Adidas executives funneled $100,000 to the family of a top recruit - believed to be five-star freshman Brian Bowen - to ensure he'd play basketball at Louisville, an Adidas-sponsored school. Louisville reportedly suspended Bowen this week.
 
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#184
#184
Auburn is offering full refunds to season ticket holders after the FBI handed down federal charges to 10 individuals -- including Auburn associate head coach Chuck Person -- on Tuesday, according to 247Sports' Auburn Undercover.

According to AL.com, the offering comes one day after Auburn sold its season ticket allotment. There's been "a few people" who have already requested and been granted refunds as a result of the investigation that implicated 10 individuals, including four college basketball assistant coaches.
 
#186
#186
Miami is thought to be one of the schools in the probe. "private research university located in Florida" pretty much nails them. I've always wondered how they got good so quick with 3,000 people at their games.
 
#187
#187
Can someone explain exactly how this is a felony again? Was it the camouflage of the payments themselves? The payment of money by agents to coaches and then the coaches steering players back to that agent, without the players knowledge?
 
#188
#188
05_never_again said:
Can someone explain exactly how this is a felony again? Was it the camouflage of the payments themselves? The payment of money by agents to coaches and then the coaches steering players back to that agent, without the players knowledge?
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It's a mix of a couple of things. It's bribery of a state employee, which would typically be a state charge except that these all seem to be crossing state lines. Couple that with a little bit of wire fraud and here we are.
 
#189
#189
05_never_again said:
No, but you do have the 7 on 7s. If I were the FBI and wanted to see if this kind of stuff goes on in college football, I would start there.

I agree though that not every single big time recruit is taking bribes. Getting cash from boosters via $500 handshakes, sure.
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Yeah, that's the comparison, but I don't think you're going to uncover near the amount of corruption as we see in Adidas with all these schools. Football there's soooo many more recruits and it's harder to predict who will be going 1st 3 or 4 years later. It seems like the top high school players are always right there at the top of the nba draft boards one or two years later. If I'm looking to get a connection with a top draft pick who is still in high school, I'm targeting the 4 and 5 star basketball players because just one year later they are signing million dollar deals.
 
#190
#190
05_never_again said:
Can someone explain exactly how this is a felony again? Was it the camouflage of the payments themselves? The payment of money by agents to coaches and then the coaches steering players back to that agent, without the players knowledge?
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I think it crosses into felony territory once you start bribing people and doing financial cartwheels smuggling thousands of dollars through schools/companies to players. Big difference from the 500 dollar handshake.
 
#191
#191
bamawriter said:
It's a mix of a couple of things. It's bribery of a state employee, which would typically be a state charge except that these all seem to be crossing state lines. Couple that with a little bit of wire fraud and here we are.
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I imagine for the financial advisors there are strict rules of disclosure and what they can/cannot do to solicit business.

For the Adidas thing it's a bit of money laundering since they paid the athletes through some middlemen to hide the source of funds.

I'm sure there's more including fraud.
 
#192
#192
volinbham said:
I imagine for the financial advisors there are strict rules of disclosure and what they can/cannot do to solicit business.

For the Adidas thing it's a bit of money laundering since they paid the athletes through some middlemen to hide the source of funds.

I'm sure there's more including fraud.
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I don't know that money laundering applies. Adidas wasn't washing illegally obtained funds.
 
#193
#193
bamawriter said:
It's a mix of a couple of things. It's bribery of a state employee, which would typically be a state charge except that these all seem to be crossing state lines. Couple that with a little bit of wire fraud and here we are.
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Gotcha. What about in the case of the private schools wrapped up in this (Miami, USC)? Still illegal? Not that it matters, but do you think these guys knew that they were breaking state/federal law? Of course they knew it was breaking NCAA rules, and it is shady as hell generally speaking, but I didn't realize it broke state/federal laws until putting all the dots together.

When I think of "bribery of a state employee" I think of giving money to a politician or bureaucrat in exchange for political favors, but I suppose it is irrelevant what you are actually bribing the state employee for. An agent bribing a basketball coach at a state school to direct a player towards him I guess is no different than a businessman bribing a state representative to vote a certain way on a certain bill.
 
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#199
#199
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#200
#200
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