Shooting in El Paso

[Septic]

I stand by that statement. We are exceptional in very many ways. You’re spooling that into a strawman. We agree on several points that we don’t think are exceptional.

I'm not sure how I can be strawmanning since it wasn't me who introduced the extraneous metrics to my refutation of the belief in American exceptionalism. This thread is about safety, not about the economy.

 

[hog88]

Is that a yes? Your definition of 'freedom' begins with 'guns'?

They are a component.

 

[Septic]

They are a component.

You said you'd "rather have freedom" (than safety), is that what you meant to imply?

 

[hog88]

You said you'd "rather have freedom" (than safety), is that what you meant to imply?

Yes.

 

[Septic]

Yes.

Do you understand that those things aren't mutually exclusive?

 

[hog88]

Do you understand that those things aren't mutually exclusive?

Without the ability to defend yourself you cannot be safe.

 

[zeppelin128]

This country is turning into a warzone.

There is a reason the meteor from a few days ago left us alone. It rolled up the windows and said f that.

 

[37L1]

Log off.

You misspelled "Log".

 

[NorthDallas40]

I'm not sure how I can be strawmanning since it wasn't me who introduced the extraneous metrics to my refutation of the belief in American exceptionalism. This thread is about safety, not about the economy.

I never stated I disagreed with your premise that we are any safer. I even gave examples of freedom and safety not being necessarily correlated. So why are you attacking some statement I didn’t make. All I made was an anecdotal statement that we are exceptional in many ways while I agreed we aren’t in the cases you pointed out?

 

[Septic]

Without the ability to defend yourself you cannot be safe.

You mean, you cannot feel safe. In fact, many of the countries at the top of that "safe" list, are also countries at the top of the world freedom index. At the top of the list was Iceland, guns are allowed there, their violent crimes with guns is almost non existent and they are much higher on the list of countries that are "free".

The assumption that guns are needed to be safe doesn't hold water. We have more guns per capita than anyone, and we are 120 on the list of safest countries.

This country has a culture problem that has been sprinkled liberally with guns. Nasty recipe, that.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Without the ability to defend yourself you cannot be safe.

You aren’t necessarily “safe” even with the ability to defend yourself however the recognition is that you are responsible for your own safety not the government. I don’t view our country as any “safer” than any other peer western country. However I do have the choice of accepting responsibility for my own safety and acting accordingly in the US.

 

[GAVol]

Of course he was a whack job. We reserve the term terrorist for brown folks. Whenever they do it they're perfectly sane, but subscribe to radical, violent politics.

As if whack job is some sort of term of endearment... My God the word games are tiresome.

 

[The Original Fade]

I joined Twitter a few years ago and deleted the account the same day. If it wasn't for VN and Reddit I would have no clue who is tweeting what, and I'm cool with that.

I wish I never used FB to stay connected with friends that live out of state, otherwise I'd delete it too.

VN and LinkedIn are the only social media platforms I use anymore. The rest are trouble

 

[IPleadInsanity]

Trump's messaging, the anger and demagoguery, otherization of brown people, had everything to do with this.

Hard to believe anyone would politicize this event. My god we have people in this country that want to kill us all. For every one that actually picks up a weapon there are 10,000 others that think its cool. The reason really doesn't matter, there are too many mentally ill people walking around untreated. Why are so many people becoming seriously mentally ill? This was a rarity 30 years ago not the norm as it is today.

 

[hog88]

You mean, you cannot feel safe. In fact, many of the countries at the top of that "safe" list, are also countries at the top of the world freedom index. At the top of the list was Iceland, guns are allowed there, their violent crimes with guns is almost non existent and they are much higher on the list of countries that are "free".

The assumption that guns are needed to be safe doesn't hold water. We have more guns per capita than anyone, and we are 120 on the list of safest countries.

This country has a culture problem that has been sprinkled liberally with guns. Nasty recipe, that.

You’re argument does not hold water, none. Once the people in possession of the firearms decide, nope I’m not providing for your safety you as an unarmed subject are no longer safe.

Let’s put your theory to the test that freedom and safety does not require arms. Let’s abolish the military and disarm the police, if we do that by your logic we should be the safest country in the world.

 

[hog88]

You aren’t necessarily “safe” even with the ability to defend yourself however the recognition is that you are responsible for your own safety not the government. I don’t view our country as any “safer” than any other peer western country. However I do have the choice of accepting responsibility for my own safety and acting accordingly in the US.

Safety is an illusion, people state that the want to feel safe yet they get on the highways everyday.

 

[Bjorn_Yesterday]

Hard to believe anyone would politicize this event. My god we have people in this country that want to kill us all. For every one that actually picks up a weapon there are 10,000 others that think its cool. The reason really doesn't matter, there are too many mentally ill people walking around untreated. Why are so many people becoming seriously mentally ill? This was a rarity 30 years ago not the norm as it is today.

The incident was political.

 

[happy-go_vol]

Hard to believe anyone would politicize this event. My god we have people in this country that want to kill us all. For every one that actually picks up a weapon there are 10,000 others that think its cool. The reason really doesn't matter, there are too many mentally ill people walking around untreated. Why are so many people becoming seriously mentally ill? This was a rarity 30 years ago not the norm as it is today.

We have a country who has rejected God. We no longer believe in ovjective truths. We've kicked out God in all aspects of public life, so yes we are become an angry nation. God's hand of protection is being slowly lifted.

 

[NorthDallas40]

Safety is an illusion, people state that the want to feel safe yet they get on the highways everyday.

We agree

 

[The Original Fade]

I'll agree with you there big pharma has a huge hand in ruining this country.

No they don’t. Physicians write prescriptions for patients, pharma companies don’t.

 

[1972 Grad]

Hard to believe anyone would politicize this event. My god we have people in this country that want to kill us all. For every one that actually picks up a weapon there are 10,000 others that think its cool. The reason really doesn't matter, there are too many mentally ill people walking around untreated. Why are so many people becoming seriously mentally ill? This was a rarity 30 years ago not the norm as it is today.

There is a whole generation pf people that were raised to think they were special, and can't handle it when they don't get their way. Look at the way they reacted , and still react, to Trump's election.

 

[Septic]

You’re argument does not hold water, none. Once the people in possession of the firearms decide, nope I’m not providing for your safety you as an unarmed subject are no longer safe.

Let’s put your theory to the test that freedom and safety does not require arms. Let’s abolish the military and disarm the police, if we do that by your logic we should be the safest country in the world.

The safest country in the world is Iceland, the police don't carry guns and yet per capita, they rank 12th on the guns per capita.

This fact isn't congruent with your argument.

You're conflating being armed with safety, our country has the most guns per capita by a factor of 2. Using your logic, we should be the most safe.

 

[Septic]

We have a country who has rejected God. We no longer believe in ovjective truths. We've kicked out God in all aspects of public life, so yes we are become an angry nation. God's hand of protection is being slowly lifted.

If that were true and protection from one another was predicated upon 'worship', then it wouldn't deserve it to begin with.

Incidentally, Iceland is also one of the most secular countries on the planet - and yet they manage to get by without too much anger.

Some of you need to get some perspective before trotting out these bumper sticker arguments.

 

[Orangeburst]

No they don’t. Physicians write prescriptions for patients, pharma companies don’t.

I have always wondered why the pharmas have all these TV commercials. Not like I can just go to the store and pick it up. Not like I am going to go to Dr and ask for the advertised product, as he will suggest the remedy.

 

[Orangeslice13]

The safest country in the world is Iceland, the police don't carry guns and yet per capita, they rank 12th on the guns per capita.

This fact isn't congruent with your argument.

You're conflating being armed with safety, our country has the most guns per capita by a factor of 2. Using your logic, we should be the most safe.

What’s the gangster population like in Iceland? Also curious about unemployment and drug issues. I’d think there’s a lot that goes into a “culture “ that creates a safe environment beyond how many guns there are.