Shorten the Bench?

You called him stupid first in your first post here, that’s why he said that

I said that it was stupid to go with a smaller rotation (just for the sake of doing that). Then he came back with “History says you’re stupid for thinking that”. And if you look back at post #69 he dragged me into his argument with that insult. If you check my first posts, I simply disagreed and wasn’t flinging insults.
 
Reasons for shortening bench late in season:
-Injuries/illnesses
-Talent/experience drop off for #8-#12 guys
-Role player no longer fulfilling his role

If CRB is fortunate enough to have 10 healthy players at season’s end, and they are all contributing with little to no drop off between #1 to #10, then SMOKE ‘EM IF YOU GOT ‘EM!

CRB hasn’t previously had this nice problem because (recent examples) an ON or a Kyle Alexander is lost to injury. Or a 3 point shooting specialist like Howell lost his stroke. Or his #9-10 guys clearly aren’t as talented & productive as the guys at the top of the rotation.

My hope: our #1-10 are all healthy for the Final Four, and Mashack is annoying the hell out of some opposing elite guard for 5+ minutes, and Awaka is posting up a good inside defender for several minutes.
 
You’ll have to show me those posts because my practice is to only push back on those throwing shade at me.

I remember you got all bent off of shape when I posted that the father of one of McRae’s teammates TOLD ME that JM was dumb as a rock.

It was b4 that. UT wasn't playing their best ball at the time. There were a ton of negative posts from many posters, yet you singled me out both games for being negative. No one else. I took that as an attack.

Anyway, I'm done with the insulting and attacking back and forth. Let's call a truce and move on
 
It was b4 that. UT wasn't playing their best ball at the time. There were a ton of negative posts from many posters, yet you singled me out both games for being negative. No one else. I took that as an attack.

Anyway, I'm done with the insulting and attacking back and forth. Let's call a truce and move on

I don’t think that I would have gone after you specifically. If you had multiple posts making similar comments then it might have appeared that way. I would blurt out contrary opinions without paying attention to who the poster is. Now if I disagree with a poster that I think is a nice person, I try to throttle it back.

I agree. Kumbaya. I’ve read some of your recent posts and wanted to give it a like. Then I saw the poster and told myself, naw. Not going to do that. Lol.
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So here’s my overall point, if you look at the last 4 years (non COVID), let’s take a look at the season rotations for each of those 4 teams that all went dancing. By rotation I’m talking similar to this years squad, so guys over 8mpg essentially playing every game, and then not playing more the 2-4 minutes.

2022 squad was playing 10 deep, come end of year and heading into the tourney that shrunk to 7 deep.

2021 squad was playing 9 deep, come end of year and heading into the tourney that shrunk to 7 deep.

2019 squad was playing 8 deep, come end of year and heading into the tourney that shrunk to 7 deep.

2018 squad was playing 9 deep, come end of year and heading into the tourney that shrunk to 7 deep.


Maybe this year is different, but history from a NCAA standpoint and from a Barnes standpoint tells us that the rotation is very likely going to shrink down the closer we get to tournament play.
 
I would say that the gap between #1 and #10 has maybe never been tighter. But you want to arbitrarily cut 2 or 3 out of the mix? Okay.
For Tennessee it’s pretty strong, last years was pretty good as well, but I was talking CBB wide. There’s been many more talented 1-10 teams across the nation and they’ve pretty much all proven that playing your best 7-8 guys come March is the move. There is a difference between 1 & 10, a fairly large one actually if you look at any sort or analytical site.
 
If you look at Evan Miya, KenPom, Barttorvik, Statsreference etc. there’s a pretty common theme, Awaka & Mashack are routinely bottom 2 or 3 out of the rotational 10. That’s not to say they aren’t good or that we don’t have depth, it just shows there is actually a pretty decent disparity between a Zeigler or Vescovi and a Mashack.
 
If you look at Evan Miya, KenPom, Barttorvik, Statsreference etc. there’s a pretty common theme, Awaka & Mashack are routinely bottom 2 or 3 out of the rotational 10. That’s not to say they aren’t good or that we don’t have depth, it just shows there is actually a pretty decent disparity between a Zeigler or Vescovi and a Mashack.

The difference now with Mashack and Awaka is that keeping them involved is critical with the revolving door of transfers. They should be in the long term plan to be heavy contributors. Plus Mashack is one of the best defenders and Awaka is one of the best rebounders and, along with Uros, can hold his ground in the paint.
 
The difference now with Mashack and Awaka is that keeping them involved is critical with the revolving door of transfers. They should be in the long term plan to be heavy contributors. Plus Mashack is one of the best defenders and Awaka is one of the best rebounders and, along with Uros, can hold his ground in the paint.
They’ve played this year, and there’s plenty of departure next year, I’m not simply playing guys because I hope they stick around. Neither strike me as a guy that would take not playing late as a reason to leave, definitely not Awaka who’s just a freshman and Barnes has admitted they didn’t think would be playing this much early. As for Mashack, he is a very good defender, but here’s the thing, Zeigler and Santi are actually considered better defenders and their offense is light years better…so where in other years Mashack being an offensive liability could be overlooked due to his defense, right now he’s on a team with just as good of defenders.
 
Easy to see why Awaka is getting minutes and kept in rotation. He appears to be a coach's dream. He keeps his mouth shut and his mind open.
 
When the vast data of other teams who do win say that’s the winning strategy why change?

Nothing is 100%. After all, if that strategy has almost never worked for Barnes in the ncaa, why stay the same?

I can see Mashack taking a smaller role, as he adds little offensively. But Awaka should get some significant minutes, as his development on both sides is accelerating. So I see 9 guys getting minutes.
 
Nothing is 100%. After all, if that strategy has almost never worked for Barnes in the ncaa, why stay the same?

I can see Mashack taking a smaller role, as he adds little offensively. But Awaka should get some significant minutes, as his development on both sides is accelerating. So I see 9 guys getting minutes.
Well it worked for him when he made a final four at Texas 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Well it worked for him when he made a final four at Texas 🤷🏻‍♂️
Barnes has been to the NCAA Tournament 26 times. It’s no disgrace to lose in the tournament; nearly everyone does every year. But only once — in 2006, as a No. 6 seed in the second round — has Barnes beaten a higher-seeded team. Only once has he gone to the final four. 1/26 = 4%

In 9 of his last 10 tournament appearances, Barnes season has been ended by a lower seed pulling an upset.
 
Barnes has been to the NCAA Tournament 26 times. It’s no disgrace to lose in the tournament; nearly everyone does every year. But only once — in 2006, as a No. 6 seed in the second round — has Barnes beaten a higher-seeded team. Only once has he gone to the final four. 1/26 = 4%

In 9 of his last 10 tournament appearances, Barnes season has been ended by a lower seed pulling an upset.
Cool, so more F4 appearances, E8 appearances & S16’s than 99.9% of current college basketball coaches??
 
Nothing is 100%. After all, if that strategy has almost never worked for Barnes in the ncaa, why stay the same?

I can see Mashack taking a smaller role, as he adds little offensively. But Awaka should get some significant minutes, as his development on both sides is accelerating. So I see 9 guys getting minutes.
To me, from what I saw last night, we were able to revert to a different plan when the initial small ball wasn’t working. Then we were able to mix and match the rest of the way. Looking at the boxscore, everyone contributed in a fairly equal way. We stayed fresh and played hard. Barnes said on his show he liked the depth and contributors would continue to play. It looks pretty clear to me that he’s more than likely proceeding with a deeper rotation. I like it, although it might change game-to-game.
 
Cool, so more F4 appearances, E8 appearances & S16’s than 99.9% of current college basketball coaches??

Yep, I would guess so. Look, I'm not knocking Barnes. I have defended him to the hilt on these boards. I love him and want him to stay here a lot longer. While he's here, I'd sure like to see him get back to the FF. For his sake, and of course, ours. He's done just about everything he can do for us in conference and pre-conference play, and he's won the championships of the conference. I'm just suggesting that if something hasn't worked for him 96% of the time, he might want to contemplate a change. Could be when you have a team this deep, it might make sense to have more involved than the traditional 7 (or even 8).
 
To me, from what I saw last night, we were able to revert to a different plan when the initial small ball wasn’t working. Then we were able to mix and match the rest of the way. Looking at the boxscore, everyone contributed in a fairly equal way. We stayed fresh and played hard. Barnes said on his show he liked the depth and contributors would continue to play. It looks pretty clear to me that he’s more than likely proceeding with a deeper rotation. I like it, although it might change game-to-game.
Do you think the minute distribution last night had more to do with a 30+ point easy W, or more of what we’ll see going forward?
 
Yep, I would guess so. Look, I'm not knocking Barnes. I have defended him to the hilt on these boards. I love him and want him to stay here a lot longer. While he's here, I'd sure like to see him get back to the FF. For his sake, and of course, ours. He's done just about everything he can do for us in conference and pre-conference play, and he's won the championships of the conference. I'm just suggesting that if something hasn't worked for him 96% of the time, he might want to contemplate a change. Could be when you have a team this deep, it might make sense to have more involved than the traditional 7 (or even 8).
It’s possible, I just think it’s very unlikely as that doesn’t seem to be the case for really any other team. It would seem much more like an anomaly but who knows…there’s a clear difference in our top and bottom of rotation with analytics, I typically am of the mindset to play your best players as much as possible matchup dependent when it comes to March, but if others disagree that’s ok.
 
Barnes has been to the NCAA Tournament 26 times. It’s no disgrace to lose in the tournament; nearly everyone does every year. But only once — in 2006, as a No. 6 seed in the second round — has Barnes beaten a higher-seeded team. Only once has he gone to the final four. 1/26 = 4%

In 9 of his last 10 tournament appearances, Barnes season has been ended by a lower seed pulling an upset.

The seeding is a best guess and other tournament variables carry more weight.

How many teams actually beat higher seeds year in and year out? And a 9 beating an 8 and a 10 beating a 7 isn’t that big of a deal. Probably not a big whoop for an 11 to beat a 6 either.
 
Do you think the minute distribution last night had more to do with a 30+ point easy W, or more of what we’ll see going forward?
I think we’re more likely to see 8-9 going forward. I do think each game is independent and will depend on opponent matchups and what is happening within the context of each game. 10 guys getting minutes won’t surprise me.
 
I think we’re more likely to see 8-9 going forward. I do think each game is independent and will depend on opponent matchups and what is happening within the context of each game. 10 guys getting minutes won’t surprise me.
I think Awaka & Mashack need to stay locked in and Barnes knows that, I do think the rotation will shorten down the stretch in tight games but those guys are different so both could still see roles in certain situations. A game against a big team where we’ve got some foul trouble I could see Awaka being needed, on the flip side a game where heaven forbid Zeigler & Santi both pick up 2 then Mashack will be called upon most likely.
 
I think Awaka & Mashack need to stay locked in and Barnes knows that, I do think the rotation will shorten down the stretch in tight games but those guys are different so both could still see roles in certain situations. A game against a big team where we’ve got some foul trouble I could see Awaka being needed, on the flip side a game where heaven forbid Zeigler & Santi both pick up 2 then Mashack will be called upon most likely.
I think Mashack is first man out. I don’t think you can do without Awaka down the stretch.
 
If you look at Evan Miya, KenPom, Barttorvik, Statsreference etc. there’s a pretty common theme, Awaka & Mashack are routinely bottom 2 or 3 out of the rotational 10. That’s not to say they aren’t good or that we don’t have depth, it just shows there is actually a pretty decent disparity between a Zeigler or Vescovi and a Mashack.
With Mashack, his minutes may depend moreso on the opponent. If he comes in the first half against Texas and handcuffs Carr to any extent then he may earn more minutes in 2nd half. Now if he gets used than don’t expect him to see him in the 2nd half. I like him though and think 10 minutes per game now that JJJ is back would be fine. He more than anyone has lost minutes due to James return.

Vescovi is the only player currently averaging more than 30 minutes per game at 31.4. And even he could probably hover around 30 if we actually picked up our pace offensively and pushed tempo more. It does strike me a bit odd (not necessarily in a bad way) that Barnes is still experimented with different lineups, here halfway through league play. James being out for an extended time I suppose hampered experimenting a bit.
 

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