Should Churches Pay Taxes?

[allvol123]

I obviously do not see where you are going with this...please explain.

I was referring to such moral issues as homosexual marriage in the US. you do not believe in legislation on moral issues unless they are harmful to another person. I feel this is harmful to this country, so why shouldn't it be legislated?

 

[therealUT]

I was referring to such moral issues as homosexual marriage in the US. you do not believe in legislation on moral issues unless they are harmful to another person. I feel this is harmful to this country, so why shouldn't it be legislated?

Does it physically harm you or anyone else? Then no!

 

[allvol123]

Does it physically harm you or anyone else? Then no!

that is too limited of a requirement. it harms the country, so what is the alternate solutuion?

 

[therealUT]

that is too limited of a requirement. it harms the country, so what is the alternate solutuion?

First, how does it harm the country?

Second, the solution is that the federal gov't should have never meddled in marriage in the first place. The issue of marriage should be between yourself, your spouse, and your church, period. If the religion you are a part of, decides to marry homosexuals, and that offends you, leave that religion. It is that simple.

 

[OWB]

that is too limited of a requirement. it harms the country, so what is the alternate solutuion?

Would you mind giving me some examples of how it harms the country?

 

[therealUT]

Would you mind giving me some examples of how it harms the country?

I will give you one example, OWB. More Red Tape and even more of a barrier from removing marriage completely from the government's jurisdiction.

 

[BHAMVOLFAN]

Not at all. Israel is fighting against an enemy that has killed Israeli's for over 20 years. Israel handed over Southern Lebanon to the Lebanese government under the pretense that the Lebanese gov't would use their military to rid Souther Lebanon of Hezbollah. They did not uphold their end of the bargain for over 6 years! Israel finally attacked after numerous Hezbollah offenses against Israeli citizens, the last being the kidnapping of 2 IDF soldiers. I also believe in total war, as total war often reduces the duration of a war, and therefore limits total casualties (civilian and non-civilian.)

Lebanon has become a democracy in the past several years. Lebanon however has little money in which to purchase military armaments therefore have no ability to challenge Hezbollah. On the other hand, it was the Israelis that have taken to the fight against Lebanon as they want the land in the south in which to expand. At the last peace accord between these 2 countries Israel agreed to stay on their side of the border and vice versa. This year alone the Israelis have broken that agreement in airspace alone, before this latest incursion, 23 times. The soldiers kidnapped were in Lebanon, not in Israel. To take it a step further, Hezbollah was formed to protect the southern Lebanese border from the Israelis. This was done as aforementioned, Lebanon couldn't afford an army with any substance. Our government has chosen to spin this in order that all of us consider Hezbollah nothing more than another Al Quaeda type of organization.

The points posted are from a local judge, a staunch Republican, that was born in Lebanon but immigrated to the USA when he was 1 year old. He still has family in Beirut and his wife and son were in Lebanon when Israel attacked. They just returned to the US on Saturday after paying 2 men $500 each to drive them into Syria. They were attacked by Israeli aircraft on that drive. They were on a road well outside Beirut following a well marked Red Cross ambulance which was also attacked.

 

[therealUT]

Lebanon has become a democracy in the past several years. Lebanon however has little money in which to purchase military armaments therefore have no ability to challenge Hezbollah. On the other hand, it was the Israelis that have taken to the fight against Lebanon as they want the land in the south in which to expand. At the last peace accord between these 2 countries Israel agreed to stay on their side of the border and vice versa. This year alone the Israelis have broken that agreement in airspace alone, before this latest incursion, 23 times. The soldiers kidnapped were in Lebanon, not in Israel. To take it a step further, Hezbollah was formed to protect the southern Lebanese border from the Israelis. This was done as aforementioned, Lebanon couldn't afford an army with any substance. Our government has chosen to spin this in order that all of us consider Hezbollah nothing more than another Al Quaeda type of organization.

The points posted are from a local judge, a staunch Republican, that was born in Lebanon but immigrated to the USA when he was 1 year old. He still has family in Beirut and his wife and son were in Lebanon when Israel attacked. They just returned to the US on Saturday after paying 2 men $500 each to drive them into Syria. They were attacked by Israeli aircraft on that drive. They were on a road well outside Beirut following a well marked Red Cross ambulance which was also attacked.

Trying to make me feel sympathy for Hezbollah is a pretty good uphill climb. That same peace accord mandated that Lebanon rid their country of Hezbollah. That was 6 years ago, and Hezbollah has 12,000 missiles aimed at Haifa. Try as you might, you will never convince that Lebanon should not take the brunt of this attack.

 

[allvol123]

First, how does it harm the country?

Second, the solution is that the federal gov't should have never meddled in marriage in the first place. The issue of marriage should be between yourself, your spouse, and your church, period. If the religion you are a part of, decides to marry homosexuals, and that offends you, leave that religion. It is that simple.

I can agree with what 2 adults do behind closed doors is their business. But it is naive to think that there is not a homosexual agenda happening in this culture.

How it hurts us? In the last presidential election I saw Kerry and Bush debate how much money we should give to Africa for AIDS relief. Bush said 50 billion, Kerry said 80 billion. I said I don't want either of you as President. I say no government money to AIDS relief in Africa or America. How dumb have we become, how did a disease barely 25 years old take such a lions share of the money pie for research. They do know it is curable don't they, in fact the disease would die out if they allowed it too. The homosexual culture is costing this country plenty.

 

[BHAMVOLFAN]

Some interesting quotes from Israelis:

Some quotes from Israeli Prime Ministers and politicians regarding the Middle East conflict:

"Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don't worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it." - Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio.

David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): " If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them?

Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti-Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault?
They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?" Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox)

"We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return... The old will die and the young will forget."-David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, July 18, 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar's "Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet," Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.

"We must expel Arabs and take their places." - David Ben Gurion, 1937, Ben Gurion and the Palestine Arabs, Oxford University Press, 1985.

"We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population." - David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.

"We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, 'What is to be done with the Palestinian population; Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said 'Drive them out!'? Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979; Rabin's description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet.

"Let us not ignore the truth among ourselves ... politically we are the aggressors and they defend themselves... The country is theirs, because they inhabit it, whereas we want to come here and settle down, and in their view we want to take away from them their country." - David Ben Gurion, quoted on pp 91-2 of Chomsky's Fateful Triangle, which appears in Simha Flapan's "Zionism and the Palestinians pp 141-2 citing a 1938 speech.

"There is no such thing as a Palestinian people... It is not as if we came and threw them out and took their country. They didn't exist." - Golda Meir, statement to The Sunday Times, 15 June, 1969.

"How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to." - Golda Meir, March 8, 1969.

"This country exists as the fulfillment of a promise made by God Himself. It would be ridiculous to ask it to account for its legitimacy." - Golda Meir, Le Monde, 15 October 1971

"I have learned that the state of Israel cannot be ruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism." --Moshe Sharett, Israel's first Foreign Minister and later a Prime Minister (p.51 Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel", 1987)

"The state of Israel must invent dangers, and to do this it must adopt the methods of provocation and revenge.... And above all, let us hope for a new war with the Arab countries so that we may finally get rid of our troubles and acquire our space." -From the diary of Moshe Sharett, Israeli's first Foreign Minister from 1948-1956, and Prime Minister from 1954-1956.

"[The Palestinians] are beasts walking on two legs."-Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, "Begin and the 'Beasts,"' New Statesman, June 25, 1982.

"(The Palestinians) would be crushed like grasshoppers ... heads smashed against the boulders and walls." - Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) Yitzhak Shamir in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988

"If we thought that instead of 200 Palestinian fatalities, 2,000 dead would put an end to the fighting at a stroke, we would use much more force...." - Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak, quoted in Associated Press, November 16, 2000.

"I would have joined a terrorist organization." - Ehud Barak's response to Gideon Levy, a columnist for the Ha'aretz newspaper, when Barak was asked what he would have done if he had been born a Palestinian.

"Israel should have exploited the repression of the demonstrations in China, when world attention focused on that country, to carry out mass expulsions among the Arabs of the territories." Benyamin Netanyahu, then Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister, former Prime Minister of Israel, tells students at Bar Ilan University, From the Israeli journal Hotam, November 24, 1989.

 

[smoke_em06]

I can agree with what 2 adults do behind closed doors is their business. But it is naive to think that there is not a homosexual agenda happening in this culture.

How it hurts us? In the last presidential election I saw Kerry and Bush debate how much money we should give to Africa for AIDS relief. Bush said 50 billion, Kerry said 80 billion. I said I don't want either of you as President. I say no government money to AIDS relief in Africa or America. How dumb have we become, how did a disease barely 25 years old take such a lions share of the money pie for research. They do know it is curable don't they, in fact the disease would die out if they allowed it too. The homosexual culture is costing this country plenty.

THANK YOU!!!! Someone with some sense!!!

 

[OWB]

THANK YOU!!!! Someone with some sense!!!

Don't you have a snake to handle or something? :crazy:

 

[OWB]

How it hurts us? In the last presidential election I saw Kerry and Bush debate how much money we should give to Africa for AIDS relief. Bush said 50 billion, Kerry said 80 billion. I said I don't want either of you as President. I say no government money to AIDS relief in Africa or America. How dumb have we become, how did a disease barely 25 years old take such a lions share of the money pie for research. They do know it is curable don't they, in fact the disease would die out if they allowed it too. The homosexual culture is costing this country plenty.

Did it hurt when you lost your mind?

 

[smoke_em06]

Did it hurt when you lost your mind?

Just how lost are you OWB???

 

[OWB]

Just how lost are you OWB???

I don't know, just please please please don't try to find me ok?

 

[allvol123]

Did it hurt when you lost your mind?

if that is the best reply you have, then I would say you have no reply.

 

[OWB]

if that is the best reply you have, then I would say you have no reply.

and if that is the best reply you have, then I would say you have no reply..

 

[allvol123]

and if that is the best reply you have, then I would say you have no reply..

wrong you are again, I gave my example of how the homosexual movement is hurting this country and you cannot argue it is incorrect.

I know you are not a religious man, but the cool thing about this subject is that religion is not even needed to show that it is wrong. Nature has put in its own answer for it.

 

[therealUT]

wrong you are again, I gave my example of how the homosexual movement is hurting this country and you cannot argue it is incorrect.

I know you are not a religious man, but the cool thing about this subject is that religion is not even needed to show that it is wrong. Nature has put in its own answer for it.

Using that logic (AIDS,) Christianity must have been bad for mankind during the Plague. Since, it is well documented that Jewish, Gypsy, and Muslim societies were not affected by the mass death of the period...

 

[OWB]

wrong you are again, I gave my example of how the homosexual movement is hurting this country and you cannot argue it is incorrect.

I know you are not a religious man, but the cool thing about this subject is that religion is not even needed to show that it is wrong. Nature has put in its own answer for it.

Considering that they now think that HIV came from a similar virus found in chimpanzees, your one and only example has no merit.

 

[allvol123]

Considering that they now think that HIV came from a similar virus found in chimpanzees, your one and only example has no merit.

my one and only example has no merit huh, so the trillions of dollars and countless researchers that this disease has pulled away from other diseases has no merit. A disease that is spread by selfish spolied brats for the most part, people that do as they please. Who cares where it came from, chimpanzees are not the ones spreading it, now are they? We know the primary reasons this disease is kept alive, homosexuality, drug use, promiscuity. Wow those things are worth defending.

 

[allvol123]

Using that logic (AIDS,) Christianity must have been bad for mankind during the Plague. Since, it is well documented that Jewish, Gypsy, and Muslim societies were not affected by the mass death of the period...

If you want to compare homosexuals to the rats that spread the plague that is your right. I can see your point.

 

[therealUT]

If you want to compare homosexuals to the rats that spread the plague that is your right. I can see your point.

I am just wondering how Homosexuals with AIDS hurts you. The AIDS cases in Africa are not due to homosexuality. If you are worried about getting AIDS, then be more selective with who you invite into your bed.

I do not agree with gov't money being spent on passing out condoms, increasing AIDS research, or Medicare/Medicaid. However, I have a hard time seeing how gay marriage is going to increase AIDS cases. In fact, by bonding homosexual lovers in civil unions, or marriages, into monogamous relationships, wouldn't one actually decrease the spread of AIDS in the homosexual community?

 

[OWB]

my one and only example has no merit huh, so the trillions of dollars and countless researchers that this disease has pulled away from other diseases has no merit. A disease that is spread by selfish spolied brats for the most part, people that do as they please. Who cares where it came from, chimpanzees are not the ones spreading it, now are they? We know the primary reasons this disease is kept alive, homosexuality, drug use, promiscuity. Wow those things are worth defending.

Other than Cancer, I would say that HIV should be on the top of the list when it comes to research funding. It's an epidemic and should be taken seriously. While I'm sure there are people like yourself who don't mind people dying from such a horrible disease, nobody deserves such a death.

The primary reason that this disease is kept alive is because there isn't a cure for it. People from all walks of life are dealing with this disease, it has nothing to do with your homophobia..

 

[OWB]

In fact, by bonding homosexual lovers in civil unions, or marriages, into monogamous relationships, wouldn't one actually decrease the spread of AIDS in the homosexual community?

One would think. That's my line of thinking on legalizing and controlling prostitution as well.