Should Clowney sit?

#26
#26
Vercingetorix said:
I'm not saying Clowney should sit it out. Hell, I can't say that I believe that he'd still be a sure bet to still be the #1 pick even if he would. What I am saying is that system sucks because it treats players likes indentured servants. Lattimore would have been a high draft pick if he had been able to come out last year, but he couldn't, so boom, he blew out his knee playing for free instead, costing him millions of dollars. Clowney would be the #1 pick right now if he could come out, but he can't, so he's got to risk the same thing. (Or risk guys calling him a crummy competitor.) I don't know anything about Clowney's family, but what if his mom is a single parent living in a trailer? She's got to wait another year before he can help her. Everybody gets rich but the players.
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I totally agree bro.

but life isn't fair. Lattimore went pro didn't he?
 
#27
#27
Lattimore has gone pro. Let's see where he gets drafted. Then we'll be able to estimate how many millions it cost him.
 
#28
#28
Coach Grizz said:
No love for the game
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I didn't play football, so no, I don't have any "love" for the game.

**** that. We're talking about potentially hundreds of millions of dollars here.

Had Marcus Lattimore been able to come out of the draft after his freshman year, he'd have a $20M contract right now.

The NCAA is a crock.
 
#29
#29
It's not the NCAA that keeps Lattimore and Clowney out of the draft, it's the NFL. The later players are eligible, the less uncertainty in the draft process.

Not that the NCAA isn't a crock.
 
#31
#31
I think it's a swell idea. At least half a dozen Alabama players should follow suit, a bunch from Georgia, Florida, more at South Carolina. Now we're getting closer to a level playing field. And James Franklin, he could get hurt jumping all over the place. He should take a leave of absence and keep on going
 
#33
#33
Coach Grizz said:
If he did that it would be chicken **** and selfish on his part IMO. To me, the big money takes away THE LOVE OF THE GAME.
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I'd love for someone to try to argue to me that I should put my job on hold and take an unpaid internship in Vietnam, because it should be about the love of the profession...
 
#34
#34
Coach Grizz said:
If he did that it would be chicken **** and selfish on his part IMO. To me, the big money takes away THE LOVE OF THE GAME.
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Love of the Game?
South Carolina and under amrour are going to make tons of money off the sale of #7 jerseys. NCAA 14 will make money off of the likeness of #7. In any other industry a person would normally receive compensation for this, but in NCAA football he receives nothing.
I agree that his diploma is a great reward but that is worth several thousands, not several millions which is what he stands to make, if healthy.
I would not hold ill will against the kid if he sat out.
If he had a choice to go NFL or CFB and he went CFB then maybe a different story.
 
#36
#36
I would sit. Forget the team. Take the money, that's one less year of hell on your body.
 
#37
#37
In cases like this guy, I think you have to consider it. Businessmen around SC would probably help the guy for the rest of his life if he did go down with a knee, but I would think this is prime example of a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not allowed to make a living at the age of 20, then multimillion dollar career ended against ky due to NFL rules.
 
#38
#38
Vercingetorix said:
It's not the NCAA that keeps Lattimore and Clowney out of the draft, it's the NFL. The later players are eligible, the less uncertainty in the draft process.

Not that the NCAA isn't a crock.
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I don't buy this argument at all. Every business or profession has the right to determine its own requirements for education/life experience to be eligible to work for them. Why should the NFL not be allowed to do the same? It's a tough business but you have to prove yourself for 3 years before you can get into it. I just can't understand what is so unfair about that.

The NCAA is a crock.
 
#39
#39
Smokefatty said:
I don't buy this argument at all. Every business or profession has the right to determine its own requirements for education/life experience to be eligible to work for them. Why should the NFL not be allowed to do the same? It's a tough business but you have to prove yourself for 3 years before you can get into it. I just can't understand what is so unfair about that.
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Prove yourself where? In the unpaid indentured servitude under which college football players labor. Colleges exploit the players as free labor in a billion-dollar business; the NFL in turn exploits that situation as its free developmental league. There's no reasonable path for an 18 year old adult to play football professionally without selling himself to the college football system for three years. At some point this is going to come up in the court system again, this time with expert testimony about head injuries and the extra risk involved in playing three years for free. I don't know whether such a lawsuit would have a chance or not, because I am not a lawyer, but even if it's legally defensible, it's morally bankrupt.

College baseball and professional minor leagues coexist happily. Either is a legitimate path to a pro career, and the existence of the pro-only path makes most of the moral sketchiness of the college sport go away. Football needs the same thing. A guy like Clowney should never have been compelled to go to college to begin with.
 
#41
#41
Vercingetorix said:
Prove yourself where? In the unpaid indentured servitude under which college football players labor. Colleges exploit the players as free labor in a billion-dollar business; the NFL in turn exploits that situation as its free developmental league. There's no reasonable path for an 18 year old adult to play football professionally without selling himself to the college football system for three years. At some point this is going to come up in the court system again, this time with expert testimony about head injuries and the extra risk involved in playing three years for free. I don't know whether such a lawsuit would have a chance or not, because I am not a lawyer, but even if it's legally defensible, it's morally bankrupt.

College baseball and professional minor leagues coexist happily. Either is a legitimate path to a pro career, and the existence of the pro-only path makes most of the moral sketchiness of the college sport go away. Football needs the same thing. A guy like Clowney should never have been compelled to go to college to begin with.
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In the same exact place that every single one of us that holds a job that requires a college degree proves himself...college. Clowney's not compelled to do anything. If he wants to work for a certain organization, namely the NFL, he has to meet their minimum requirements. Why is it morally bankrupt to make him prove himself for 3 years in college for the privilege of making millions to play a game but perfectly acceptable to make you prove yourself for 3-4 years in college to make your living?

I do think a minor league football system could be beneficial to the NFL and players alike and would like to see it happen. Doubt it will be any time soon though.
 
#42
#42
Spartacavolus said:
In cases like this guy, I think you have to consider it. Businessmen around SC would probably help the guy for the rest of his life if he did go down with a knee, but I would think this is prime example of a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not allowed to make a living at the age of 20, then multimillion dollar career ended against ky due to NFL rules.
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Yeah ask Prothro at Alabama about that. There was a story on him and how he tried to get on as a GA after his injury but ended up working as a Bank teller barely making above minimum wage.
 
#44
#44
Smokefatty said:
In the same exact place that every single one of us that holds a job that requires a college degree proves himself...college. Clowney's not compelled to do anything. If he wants to work for a certain organization, namely the NFL, he has to meet their minimum requirements. Why is it morally bankrupt to make him prove himself for 3 years in college for the privilege of making millions to play a game but perfectly acceptable to make you prove yourself for 3-4 years in college to make your living?
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Joe the Business Major doesn't generate millions of dollars in revenue for his university and professors; Clowney and Lattimore do. Joe can do whatever he wants to earn money while going to school; Clowney and Lattimore can't earn anything. Joe the Business Major isn't constantly risking an injury in class that would render him unable to work in the future. Etc.

A more analogous situation would be when graduate students have their own research appropriated, published, and sometimes patented by professors and universities. The schools & professors earn multi-million dollar grants; the student works for a stipend that works out to about five bucks an hour. That's morally bankrupt too.
 
#45
#45
Vercingetorix said:
Joe the Business Major doesn't generate millions of dollars in revenue for his university and professors; Clowney and Lattimore do. Joe can do whatever he wants to earn money while going to school; Clowney and Lattimore can't earn anything. Joe the Business Major isn't constantly risking an injury in class that would render him unable to work in the future. Etc.

A more analogous situation would be when graduate students have their own research appropriated, published, and sometimes patented by professors and universities. The schools & professors earn multi-million dollar grants; the student works for a stipend that works out to about five bucks an hour. That's morally bankrupt too.
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So it sounds like your problem is more with the NCAA/universities making huge amounts of money off of players than with the NFL setting entrance requirements and sticking to them. Do you think the NCAA is colluding with the NFL to keep the 3-year requirement in place?

For the record, I think baseball has the best system with the straight out of high school or after 3 years option.
 
#46
#46
Smokefatty said:
So it sounds like your problem is more with the NCAA/universities making huge amounts of money off of players than with the NFL setting entrance requirements and sticking to them. Do you think the NCAA is colluding with the NFL to keep the 3-year requirement in place?

For the record, I think baseball has the best system with the straight out of high school or after 3 years option.
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Yes, I have far more of a problem with the colleges' treatment of football players than I do with the NFL. The NFL is a for-profit enterprise setting a self-interested standard that ignores the welfare of its workforce -- which, of course, is what corporations do. Colleges aren't for-profit; their mission is supposed to be to benefit their students. Their moral standard should be a lot higher.

I doubt there's active collusion between the NFL and the colleges, but does there really have to be? The three-year requirement benefits both parties. NFL teams don't have to take a chance by giving guys like Clowney a massive contract before he's proven himself at all; college football gets to keep those kids around for awhile. Everybody benefits except the players themselves.
 
#47
#47
Vercingetorix said:
Yes, I have far more of a problem with the colleges' treatment of football players than I do with the NFL. The NFL is a for-profit enterprise setting a self-interested standard that ignores the welfare of its workforce -- which, of course, is what corporations do. Colleges aren't for-profit; their mission is supposed to be to benefit their students. Their moral standard should be a lot higher.

I doubt there's active collusion between the NFL and the colleges, but does there really have to be? The three-year requirement benefits both parties. NFL teams don't have to take a chance by giving guys like Clowney a massive contract before he's proven himself at all; college football gets to keep those kids around for awhile. Everybody benefits except the players themselves.
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If we accept that the NFL should have the right to set its own requirements as it sees fit, then I can't really muster up much outrage at the universities for giving these guys a chance to audition for the NFL. As long as the 3-year rule exists, the exposure the colleges are providing to the players is something infinitely more valuable than the price of 4 years tuition and room and board. The logic gets circular here because a large portion of that value is based upon the 3-year rule. I see the inequity but I can't convince myself that the NFL should not be allowed to set its own standards.
 
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#48
#48
Spartacavolus said:
In cases like this guy, I think you have to consider it. Businessmen around SC would probably help the guy for the rest of his life if he did go down with a knee, but I would think this is prime example of a lawsuit waiting to happen. Not allowed to make a living at the age of 20, then multimillion dollar career ended against ky due to NFL rules.
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I agree he should consider it but I doubt he would be taken care of by anybody if anything were to go bad. I'm sure he will acquire that insurance those top rated guys get. I've always wondered how they pay for it though. Anyway that would be all he would have because he's not smart enough to anything else & was never gonna get a real degree. His life income will depend on his pro career.
 
#49
#49
Vercingetorix said:
It's not the NCAA that keeps Lattimore and Clowney out of the draft, it's the NFL. The later players are eligible, the less uncertainty in the draft process.

Not that the NCAA isn't a crock.
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I was talking about the fact Clowney doesn't get paid.
 
#50
#50
volfanngaytorland said:
Saw an article earlier today and wanted to get your guys thoughts on it. I thought it was interesting.

The article suggested that Clowney should sit out next year to avoid injury and would still likely be the #1 draft pick in the 2014 draft. Said sitting out wouldn't affect him as a player and that scouts say it wouldn't hurt his draft stock either.
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Clowney is no puss. He is a baller. I look forward to seeing him play next season.
 
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