Should criticism of islam be illegal in the USA?

[golfballs]

You just can't lop all Muslims into the same boat

 

[BearCat204]

Your pals at websense have contributed software to enable censorship in at least two foreign countries, China and Yemen.

I've read a lot of articles on the site 'creeping sharia' and have not read anything hateful or racist.

Creeping sharia has become leaping sharia under the present administration.

Not such a pretty sound if you are not a moslem and living within earshot of that sound.

You do realize that the Mooselums population is less than 2% of the US population right? The thought that Sharia Law will take over the US is just about the dumbest thing any rational American could think of. This site that you love to link back to trys to suggest that this 2% will impose their beliefs and will on the rest of the country is just ridiculous, even if they wanted to. This Sharia panic that is forced out by this site and others like it only creates an unneeded panic in an effort to demonize American Muslims who are not violating any laws and actually just exercising their freedom of religion which should only be allowed if they are following inline with your own religious beliefs.

 

[golfballs]

:clap:

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Why is it not revelent.

Those of you who try to suppress criticism of islam do a great disservice to those muslims who would like to westernize or even leave islam, particularly the children, especially the female children of muslim families living in the west.

Muslim Father Killed His Three Daughters For Dating ‘Wrong Boys’ – ‘Would Kill Them Again 100 Times’

Why was the man not prosecuted for bigamy before this even happened?

Are we to have a double standard two sets of rules for muslims and everyone that isn't muslim?

Pakistani tells how he killed 4 daughters

Can we not criticize the laws and behaviors of the 57 nations of the OIC?

According to you that should be verbotten because it is racist or some other slur word such as bigoted.

I say it is only standing up for what is right.

Of course we all know that those who stand for nothing will fall for anything, at least most of us know that.

You, sir, are a champion knight in God's crusade against the evils of the false god Allah and his merciless followers.

Bless you.

 

[gsvol]

You, sir, are a champion knight in God's crusade against the evils of the false god Allah and his merciless followers.

Bless you.

Merry Christmas to you also.

Hint, you should reserve your praise for the Lord, I ask neither for praise nor denegration.

"My philosophy has always been to attack the post and not the poster."
Volfreak

You do realize that the Mooselums population is less than 2% of the US population right? The thought that Sharia Law will take over the US is just about the dumbest thing any rational American could think of. This site that you love to link back to trys to suggest that this 2% will impose their beliefs and will on the rest of the country is just ridiculous, even if they wanted to. This Sharia panic that is forced out by this site and others like it only creates an unneeded panic in an effort to demonize American Muslims who are not violating any laws and actually just exercising their freedom of religion which should only be allowed if they are following inline with your own religious beliefs.

How much more myopic can you be?

By the way, CAIR said there were three times as many muslims in America as you say, five years ago, I don't know what their current estimate is but with current state department policy that number is sure to reach 10% in a fairly short while and at 10% moslems have been quite successful in enabling state sponsored sharia courts, some of which even include criminal courts.

Pennsylvania: Anti-Sharia bill offends Muslims - Jihad Watch

Being offended is default mode for Islamic supremacists, and here it is the same old story: Americans want to outlaw the elements of Sharia that interfere with Constitutionally protected freedoms, not Islam as an individual religious practice, but in response, Islamic supremacists claim that Muslim religious freedom will be infringed upon.

The point has to be made that these anti-Sharia measures are aimed at political Islam, an authoritarian ideology at variance with the Constitution in numerous particulars -- notably, in its denial of the freedom of speech, the freedom of conscience, and the equality of rights of women and non-Muslims. But unfortunately, even many of the proponents of these measures are unable to make this case effectively.

There are those who thought the same as you in Europe twenty years ago, some fools still do.

MEMRI: Belgian Islamist Sheik Abu Imran with Al-Qaeda Flag Opposite the Atomium Monument in Brussels: Our Flag Will Soon Be Flying on Top of All the Palaces in Europe Until We Reach the White House

Following are excerpts from a statement by Belgian Islamist Sheik Abu Imran opposite the Atomium Monument in Brussels, which was posted on the Internet on December 11, 2011:

Abu Imran: In the name of Allah, the Merciful the Compassionate. Praise be to Allah, and prayers upon the Prophet, his family, his companions, and his followers. This is a short message to the King of Belgium, the Belgian government, the Belgian people, and specifically to the Muslims in Belgium. This is the flag that, Allah willing, will soon be flying on top of that building over there. There you see the flag of the Taghut, of the infidels, and soon, the flag of "there is no god but Allah" will be flying there, on top of that palace…

Demonstrator: Say: Allah Akbar.

Crowd: Allah Akbar.

Abu Imran: …and on top of all the other palaces in Europe, until, Allah willing, we reach the White House. We will not rest, despite the lawsuits and intimidations, and despite the war they wage against the Islamic nation. We swear by Allah, the one and only God, that we will not rest, we will not stop, until this flag flies on top of that building.

I'd say they have the white house thouroughly inflitrated already.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Merry Christmas to you also.

Hint, you should reserve your praise for the Lord, I ask neither for praise nor denegration.

I'm sure soldiers would appreciate your exploitation of their efforts.

How scummy. Color me surprised.

I'll reserve my praise for those who actually deserve it. That would include soldiers.

 

[golfballs]

They're fighting Moslems of course they say merry Christmas

 

[slh1089]

GSVol: Have you addressed the Christian Zealot in Norway? For you to only put such emphasis on one religion is irresponsible and bigoted. You do realize you are pushing your religion on others do you not? Muslims have the same right as you do to practice and preach the religion they live by. You give a bad name to those Christians (like myself) that are tolerable just as the fundamentalist give the the rest of Islam a black eye.

 

[rockytop9808]

Best friend dated a girl from one of those countries mentioned earlier.

Had to meet her without her father knowing.

She was afraid he would throw her out of the family.

There was an honor killing that happened in the state we lived in and about two weeks later she decided to break up with my friend.

Never spoke to him again and moved back to the country mentioned above in an arranged marriage.


But hey ... sounds open minded to me.

Using this argument, those abortion clinic bombers, Irish combatants, KKK and Hutaree members sure are a great cross-section of the Christian population of the world. They don't represent me or anyone within my Christian faith that I know, but because we can mound all Islamic folks together it should be ok.

Lumping people together is dumb.

 

[YorkVol]

Evidently not since we have boots on the ground in Iraq and Afghanistan, both of which have sharia law written into their constitutions which are very unfavorable to any but muslims and to muslims that may want to leave the religion of islam.

For instance the UN aid worker in Afghanistan that converted to Christianity and received the death penalty.

The Afghans, under international pressure and because he happened to work for the Un and could get the world to hear his case, recanted the death penalty but the man had to leave the country.

In another case moslems were offended that one of our soldiers had Bibles printed in Pashto and Urdu and so our own army burned them.

You almost got this one right. I remember sitting in a meeting where President Karzai discussed this case. On the one hand he had village elders who wanted him stoned and on the other hand he knew that doing so would reinforce the image they were a backwards country and intolerant to Christians. His solution was to have him declared insane by the court. The man was good with this as he liked to say he was crazy for Jesus, the village elders accepted it stating you would have to be crazy to leave Islam knowing it would result in death and we were able to accept it as a political solution to a sticky problem.

The Afghan Constitution is actually pretty moderate by Islamic standards. They included the rights of women, recognized 27 different cultures as integral to the Afghan nation and ensured religious tolerance. Other religions such as Christianity, Bahia and Zoroastrianism are allowed--bottom line is though the Pashtuns are the largest group, the Tajiks, Uzbeks and so forth practice their own religion and cultural practices and they made sure it was allowed in the constitution.

While the constitution says that they can make no law that goes against Islam, and it declared Afghanistan to be an Islamic State, it did not make Sharia the law of the land. Instead it recognizes that local law often is the most important for the people.

Interestingly when I talked to Afghans about democracy they would say ours was pretty young considering they had a form of representational democracy for over 5000 years. They would point to their jirga system where the village would elect a rep to go to the regional jirga where they would decide who would attend the national jirgas. Seemed familiar to me.

Anyway, like many have said, you can't put all Muslims in the same box. 400 million Indonesians don't think much like any Arab. Iranians can't stand Iraqis, of course the whole Suni, Shia thing comes into play, but the point is there is as wide variety in Islam as there is in Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism.

So who should we be worried about? The Salafist movement is the one you should look up and worry about.

 

[YorkVol]

I'm sure soldiers would appreciate your exploitation of their efforts.

How scummy. Color me surprised.

I'll reserve my praise for those who actually deserve it. That would include soldiers.

Thank you, not many soldiers would put together a post card like that.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I regrettably showed that to friend of mine who is an Afghanistan vet currently on leave until the latter half of next year. We were out having drinks and he just asked me why I'd even give someone like that a second of my time.

I've been wondering that myself lately. I dunno, maybe it's a cathartic way to vent. I'm not a very frustrated person.

 

[YorkVol]

I regrettably showed that to friend of mine who is an Afghanistan vet currently on leave until the latter half of next year. We were out having drinks and he just asked me why I'd even give someone like that a second of my time.

I've been wondering that myself lately. I dunno, maybe it's a cathartic way to vent. I'm not a very frustrated person.

VN can be very cathartic at times.

 

[gsvol]

Cathartic or an opportunity to view a lot of pure BS?

I'm sure soldiers would appreciate your exploitation of their efforts.

How scummy. Color me surprised.

I'll reserve my praise for those who actually deserve it. That would include soldiers.

I am a veteran of military service, what are you, pond scum?

They're fighting Moslems of course they say merry Christmas

The first commanding general in Afghanistan was relieved of duty for making a disparaging remark about islam, the day of political correctness has arrived.

Duh.

GSVol: Have you addressed the Christian Zealot in Norway? For you to only put such emphasis on one religion is irresponsible and bigoted. You do realize you are pushing your religion on others do you not? Muslims have the same right as you do to practice and preach the religion they live by. You give a bad name to those Christians (like myself) that are tolerable just as the fundamentalist give the the rest of Islam a black eye.

The man in Norway was not involved with any Christian organization.

I'm not pushing my own religion at all, I am pointing out the agenda of another religion which is very political in essence.

I have no problem with anyone else to practice their religion as they see fit as long as it does not oppress others or infringe upon my own rights.

Since you claim to be a Christian, do you have any comment at all on what has and is being done to Christians by the ummah across the rest of the world?

Using this argument, those abortion clinic bombers, Irish combatants, KKK and Hutaree members sure are a great cross-section of the Christian population of the world. They don't represent me or anyone within my Christian faith that I know, but because we can mound all Islamic folks together it should be ok.

Lumping people together is dumb.

Nevertheless, it behooves us to compare notes.

THE ASTUTE BLOGGERS: ISLAM: THE RELIGION OF GENOCIDE

You almost got this one right. I remember sitting in a meeting where President Karzai discussed this case. On the one hand he had village elders who wanted him stoned and on the other hand he knew that doing so would reinforce the image they were a backwards country and intolerant to Christians. His solution was to have him declared insane by the court. The man was good with this as he liked to say he was crazy for Jesus, the village elders accepted it stating you would have to be crazy to leave Islam knowing it would result in death and we were able to accept it as a political solution to a sticky problem.

Well if everyone who wanted to leave islam were afforded the same deal, then I wouldn't be so adverse to that solution but that isn't the case now is it?

Now let's take that one step further, what if the man wanted to build a church in Afghanistan, would that be all right or would it be burned down by a bunch of bassackward intolerant moslems?

The Afghan Constitution is actually pretty moderate by Islamic standards. They included the rights of women, recognized 27 different cultures as integral to the Afghan nation and ensured religious tolerance. Other religions such as Christianity, Bahia and Zoroastrianism are allowed--bottom line is though the Pashtuns are the largest group, the Tajiks, Uzbeks and so forth practice their own religion and cultural practices and they made sure it was allowed in the constitution.

Moderate by islamic standards??

Color me very impressed by their tolerance.

I know our people have built close to a hundred Mosques in Afghanistan, just how many churches have we built since you are in the know?

Maybe you can explain why we burned hundreds if not thousands of Bibles printed in Pasto and Urdu to appease the moslems?

While the constitution says that they can make no law that goes against Islam, and it declared Afghanistan to be an Islamic State, it did not make Sharia the law of the land. Instead it recognizes that local law often is the most important for the people.

Wow, again I'm impressed.

I probably understand tribal law, which predates the islamic invasion by centuries better than you since one of my ancestors carried the predominiate name in the region, Khyber.

BTW, the tribal law could be traced back to the original Jewish law and it is possible that one of the ten banished tribes of Israel settled in the region, wouldn't it be interesting to do some DNA testing?

Interestingly when I talked to Afghans about democracy they would say ours was pretty young considering they had a form of representational democracy for over 5000 years. They would point to their jirga system where the village would elect a rep to go to the regional jirga where they would decide who would attend the national jirgas. Seemed familiar to me.

I would say they have had one of the best forms of governments that has ever existed, with the possible exception of that of Bhutan but that isn't the thrust of the current push for world government and one of the main components of that push is to wipe out or destroy all 'tribalism' and the jirga is tribal until it can be turned into a democratic parliament.

Color me stupid if you don't think I understand what is actually going on, Truman said if American's really knew what was going on, there would be open rebellion.

Anyway, like many have said, you can't put all Muslims in the same box. 400 million Indonesians don't think much like any Arab. Iranians can't stand Iraqis, of course the whole Suni, Shia thing comes into play, but the point is there is as wide variety in Islam as there is in Christianity, Judaism or Buddhism.

True, however there are some things that are the same everywhere with moslems and that is to eradicate non moslems, don't ever forget that factoid.

So who should we be worried about? The Salafist movement is the one you should look up and worry about.

They just won 21% of the first round voting in Egypt (the MB won 47% and aren't all that different), I do know that the Saudis are footing the bill for nearly a thousand imams in America to preach their vile, violent doctrine.

Back in 1965 I manned a desk next to probably the smartest man I ever knew, at least in the top five and I've had the priviledge of meeting and getting to know many very intelligent men.

He was fluent in Chinese and Russian and was about to go to Arabic language school, not that I havn't known others who spoke far more languages.

He tried to convince me that our main problem in the future would come from the Aribic speaking world and I was skeptical but what he said has come to pass, has it not?

When I first read 'Tragedy and Hope' in the '60s, I was skeptical of the assertion by Quigley that the three powers that would emerge would be America and it's allies, the socialists, mainly Russia and China and a coalition between the Arabic speaking world and the Spanish speaking world.

I thought that rather hard to believe, a thousand years, beginning with the moslem invasion of Iberia and then 300+ years of the inquisition to rid themselves of islam represented to me and unbreachable chasm, I was wrong, Quigley was right, do not current events prove him right.

I would suggest that anyone wanted to discuss politics first read 'tragedy and hope' then reread it again.

Do that and then call me names.

 

[slh1089]

The man in Norway was not involved with any Christian organization.

I'm not pushing my own religion at all, I am pointing out the agenda of another religion which is very political in essence.

You may want to go back and check your facts. He most certainly was. Yes, I am aware that you are pointing out the agenda of RADICAL FUNDAMENTALIST Islam; however, you fail to recognize and address the faults of your own religion and treat the fundamentalist of another as the main stream.

 

[DinkinFlicka]

I am a veteran of military service, what are you, pond scum?

Oh, so because you served in the Spanish American War, I should be okay with your exploitation of currently enlisted soldiers to make your Islamaphobic crap (that you so lovingly call a valid opinion) stink just a little bit more?

I'm just one of those citizens you'd be enlisted to preserve.

 

[emainvol]

I love comparing MODERN DAY muslim terrorist to CENTURIES DEAD crusaders.

it's such a valid arguement.

Your sarcasm is well founded. Today's Muslim terrorists are nowhere near as bad as the crusaders.

 

[OrangeEmpire]

Your sarcasm is well founded. Today's Muslim terrorists are nowhere near as bad as the crusaders.

Emain, sup

 

[YorkVol]

The first commanding general in Afghanistan was relieved of duty for making a disparaging remark about islam, the day of political correctness has arrived.

Well if everyone who wanted to leave islam were afforded the same deal, then I wouldn't be so adverse to that solution but that isn't the case now is it?

Now let's take that one step further, what if the man wanted to build a church in Afghanistan, would that be all right or would it be burned down by a bunch of bassackward intolerant moslems?


Moderate by islamic standards??

Color me very impressed by their tolerance.

I know our people have built close to a hundred Mosques in Afghanistan, just how many churches have we built since you are in the know?

Maybe you can explain why we burned hundreds if not thousands of Bibles printed in Pasto and Urdu to appease the moslems?

Wow, again I'm impressed.

I probably understand tribal law, which predates the islamic invasion by centuries better than you since one of my ancestors carried the predominiate name in the region, Khyber.

BTW, the tribal law could be traced back to the original Jewish law and it is possible that one of the ten banished tribes of Israel settled in the region, wouldn't it be interesting to do some DNA testing?




I would say they have had one of the best forms of governments that has ever existed, with the possible exception of that of Bhutan but that isn't the thrust of the current push for world government and one of the main components of that push is to wipe out or destroy all 'tribalism' and the jirga is tribal until it can be turned into a democratic parliament.

Color me stupid if you don't think I understand what is actually going on, Truman said if American's really knew what was going on, there would be open rebellion.

True, however there are some things that are the same everywhere with moslems and that is to eradicate non moslems, don't ever forget that factoid.

They just won 21% of the first round voting in Egypt (the MB won 47% and aren't all that different), I do know that the Saudis are footing the bill for nearly a thousand imams in America to preach their vile, violent doctrine.

Back in 1965 I manned a desk next to probably the smartest man I ever knew, at least in the top five and I've had the priviledge of meeting and getting to know many very intelligent men.

He was fluent in Chinese and Russian and was about to go to Arabic language school, not that I havn't known others who spoke far more languages.

He tried to convince me that our main problem in the future would come from the Aribic speaking world and I was skeptical but what he said has come to pass, has it not?

When I first read 'Tragedy and Hope' in the '60s, I was skeptical of the assertion by Quigley that the three powers that would emerge would be America and it's allies, the socialists, mainly Russia and China and a coalition between the Arabic speaking world and the Spanish speaking world.

I thought that rather hard to believe, a thousand years, beginning with the moslem invasion of Iberia and then 300+ years of the inquisition to rid themselves of islam represented to me and unbreachable chasm, I was wrong, Quigley was right, do not current events prove him right.

I would suggest that anyone wanted to discuss politics first read 'tragedy and hope' then reread it again.

Do that and then call me names.

Who was that commander you are talking about? Chuck Swannack was at the 82nd and he didn't get canned until they went to Iraq and he got in a tiff with Rummy. He dealt with Bosnian Muslims during our deployment together in Bosnia and by everything I saw he had few criticisms for anyone but the mugs, thugs and wackos. Dan McNeil was the 18th Abn Corps Cdr and he got his 4th star and moved up to Command Forces Command. Lloyd Austin was commanding the 10th Mountain and he just closed out the mission in Iraq. Dick Cody ended up as the Vice Chief of Staff of the Army. Stanley McChriystal, the JSOC commander got fired when his staff made fun of Uncle Joe to a Rolling Stone reporter. Anyway, those were the major commanders at the time so if you could find the link that would be helpful.

Regarding churches, there are plenty of churches in the country, many are Russian Orthodox but new ones have been built in recent years. True you won't find too many in the southern part of the country, but you will find some. Yes, there have been instances of Talibs burning down churches and schools, but those are mostly local power struggles rather than major political statements at this point.

I'll take your suggestion and read the book.

I generally don't call anyone names.

 

[UTVolInSpain]

Best friend dated a girl from one of those countries mentioned earlier.

Had to meet her without her father knowing.

She was afraid he would throw her out of the family.

There was an honor killing that happened in the state we lived in and about two weeks later she decided to break up with my friend.

Never spoke to him again and moved back to the country mentioned above in an arranged marriage.


But hey ... sounds open minded to me.

I've dated two Muslim girls in the past (one from Syria and the other from Morocco) and neither of their families were like this at all.

 

[BearCat204]

Curious......who is this General that was relieved due to his remarks about Islam?

 

[BearCat204]

I've dated two Muslim girls in the past (one from Syria and the other from Morocco) and neither of their families were like this at all.

Surely your experience isn't the norm......

 

[DinkinFlicka]

Surely your experience isn't the norm......

I too dated a Muslim for a good while. Her family was cooler than mine.

 

[gsvol]

Curious......who is this General that was relieved due to his remarks about Islam?

U.S. Army Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin.

He was up for promotion to Major General but I think he was drummed out for unpolitical correctness before he was promoted.

At one time he was in charge of tracking down high level islamo/fascist targets such as mullah omar and bin-laden,
I'm not sure he was actually stationed in Afghanistan, I'm doing this from memory from eight years ago and I can hardly remember what I had for breakfast.

You can research it yourself, some of you guys want me to research everything, if you are really interested in the truth about things, you might look a little deeper than what you read and hear in the media which will always only give you the politically correct side or every story.

Here is another example of a severley politically correct direction in which we are going as predicted in Orwell's 1984;

Deputy U.S. Attorney General orders references to Islam pulled from training documents - Jihad Watch

Deputy U.S. Attorney General James Cole confirmed on Wednesday that the Obama administration was pulling back all training materials used for the law enforcement and national security communities, in order to eliminate all references to Islam that some Muslim groups have claimed are offensive.

 

[therealUT]

U.S. Army Lt. Gen. William G. "Jerry" Boykin.

He was up for promotion to Major General but I think he was drummed out for unpolitical correctness before he was promoted.

Umm...