Should U.S. Swap ‘Merchant of Death’ for Brittney Griner?

[Majors]

I’m not saying it isn’t on both sides, but the lack of understanding that race doesn’t play as big of a part as people want it to on the world stage is the part that’s troublesome. It’s everyone’s go to now, no matter the situation. The overwhelming ignorance and sense of entitlement displayed towards this shows where we are. It’s not a good look.

prison releases don’t have staged photo shoots in the Oval Office.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

A Russians arms dealer for a basketball player?

What could possibly go wrong?

Typical Joe Biden.

 

[mrorange211]

Love or hate the policy, but you have to be happy for the Griner family.

That's the thing: they aren't. They can't be because it would admit some kind of success for Biden.

 

[lawgator1]

Biden's negotiating skills must suck. To give up Bout, he should have demanded the return of both Whelan and Griner. As is, Bout straight up for Griner, that's like trading Patrick Mahomes for Baker Mayfield. Russia got the far better deal.

If the Russians said they would not make that deal, period, are you saying Biden should have left Griner there to suffer just because we couldn't get the perfect deal?

 

[FLVOL_79]

Oh yes, it's crazy. Nobody seems to know why. I couldn't find amox anywhere yesterday, and now Augmentin is short. I'm surprised you haven't heard about this... it's nationwide.

I dont watch the news too often.

 

[VolFreakJosh]

If the Russians said they would not make that deal, period, are you saying Biden should have left Griner there to suffer just because we couldn't get the perfect deal?

Sounds like Putin played Biden

 

[volinbham]

happy for her and her family

wish all got the same treatment or that treatment wasn't based on celebrity or public outcry

concerned about the potential outcomes of freeing the guy and the criminal for hostage swap strategy overall

 

[Grand Vol]

If the Russians said they would not make that deal, period, are you saying Biden should have left Griner there to suffer just because we couldn't get the perfect deal?

Is there a downside to a "yes" answer?

 

[RDU VOL#14]

Hmm yeah I can agree with this. They are the Candace Owens and Charlies Kirks of the other side. Equally disgusting to me.

That’s fair. I’m not a huge fan of there’s.

 

[lawgator1]

Is there a downside to a "yes" answer?

The downside is that, according to even the Whelan family, that was the best deal to be had.

We cannot allow the perfect to be the enemy of the good.

 

[volinbham]

Some people (on both sides) most definitely care about that aspect of this story.

yep - I'd argue that Team Biden saw more political gain in getting her out than they would for someone who didn't come from one or multiple minority communities.

as you say - it goes both ways; some less anxious to see her freed because of her minority status' other more anxious because of them.

 

[05_never_again]

Let's not pretend that's not a valid argument. It's even happening on this forum

I think it is more a criticism of how their opinion on this would be totally different if you changed the political party of the President making the swap. If Trump made this move, the Rex Chapmans and Jemele Hills of the world would frame it as Trump recklessly releasing a terrorist who had killed Americans in order to secure the release of a token black, lesbian basketball player so he didn't look like a racist.

Both sides have armies of talking heads to blatantly make bad faith arguments all the time.

 

[hog88]

The desire to bring Whelan back is absolutely legitimate and should be a priority. But bashing Biden over this turn of events of getting someone else back as opposed to Whelan, which everyone knows is not entirely in his control, is petty, rings hollow, and reflects your lack of sophistication.

I’m criticizing Biden over not getting any of the others (no mention of even trying) included in this deal. If Whelan is a spy ok I get it but there are more Americans being held over there on even flimsier charges than what BG was held for.

 

[Weezer]

If the Russians said they would not make that deal, period, are you saying Biden should have left Griner there to suffer just because we couldn't get the perfect deal?

I'm saying giving up Bout for Griner was lopsided as hell. An arms dealer for a basketball player? Let's not forget, Griner was in Russia of her own volition to make money. Apparently, women's basketball is more lucrative in Russia. But she owed her detention to her own carelessness. While I support attempts to get her back, I don't believe we should have accepted such a lopsided deal that leaves us looking weak as hell. The Biden administration will tout this as a victory, but the victor is Russia. We negotiated from a point of weakness. If Russia truly was that intent on getting the "Merchant of Death" back, then we should have been able to get Whelan as well. Or just Whelan over Griner. He should have been the priority. It sounds like the entire situation was botched for us to hand over such a high-profile prisoner just for Griner.

 

[05_never_again]

I’m criticizing Biden over not getting any of the others (no mention of even trying) included in this deal. If Whelan is a spy ok I get it but there are more Americans being held over there on even flimsier charges than what BG was held for.

The Marc Fogel case in particular. I actually get why we aren't all that interested in getting Whelan back and why the Russians see that situation as way different than Griner.

It seems quite plausible, if you read the facts of his case, that Whelan might have actually been a spy of some sort and I bet there's also a "he doesn't deserve it" attitude in the State Department because of his military record. It does seem odd that a US intelligence agency would have used someone with his military record as a spy, but you never know.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

I'm against this particular swap. It's an utterly bad exchange. And just as stupid.

 

[C-south]

That's the fix-all. I even saw that listed as a cure for the amoxicillin shortage in an article I read this morning. Well, that and masking up.

I did get a 10 year tetanus shot yesterday during a checkup. He tried to talk me into a flu shot but I passed.

 

[Go aeiou]

They were not going to return our spy to us. He knows too much.

 

[MercyPercy]

Does this mean we get a Lord of War 2 in a few years?

Someone get Nic Cage on the phone.

 

[Weezer]

I mean, I guess we need to find another high value Russian target so we can continue to trade.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Happy for the ole BG. Holiday for this release incoming bishes!

 

[VolStrom]

I'm just now doing some research about Paul Whelan, and it turns out he is a citizen of 4 countries (I didn't know that was possible) US, Canada, Britain and Ireland. That alone sounds like some James Bond sh!t to me, and he received a bad-conduct discharge from the military. Somehow, he became the "corporate security officer" for Borg Warner and went to Russia to attend a wedding when he was arrested for receiving a flash drive with what he claimed was "vacations photos" and the Russians claimed were state secrets.

I don't know how much of this to believe, but I don't doubt this guy was most likely a spy. If anyone has any better information of this guy, I'd like to read about him.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

I'm just now doing some research about Paul Whelan, and it turns out he is a citizen of 4 countries (I didn't know that was possible) US, Canada, Britain and Ireland. That alone sounds like some James Bond sh!t to me, and he received a bad-conduct discharge from the military. Somehow, he became the "corporate security officer" for Borg Warner and went to Russia to attend a wedding when he was arrested for receiving a flash drive with what he claimed was "vacations photos" and the Russians claimed were state secrets.

I don't know how much of this to believe, but I don't doubt this guy was most likely a spy. If anyone has any better information of this guy, I'd like to read about him.

He should have just smuggled a doobie, and all would have been forgiven.

 

[05_never_again]

He should have just smuggled a doobie, and all would have been forgiven.

Tell that to Marc Fogel.

Fogel is the real "well, what about this guy?" in the story, not Whelan. JMHO.

 

[PEPPERJAX]

Tell that to Marc Fogel.

Fogel is the real "well, what about this guy?" in the story, not Whelan. JMHO.

Haven't researched or heard anything about him.