Since we blame Zo when players play poorly

#151
#151
My biggest knock on Martin's recruiting is the "diamond in the rough" guys. You can build a program around high 3 star and 4 star guys and sprinkle in a 5 star (Martin has gotten 2 in 3 years) But you can't keep taking flyers on unheard of guys. As best as I can remember that list is now, Cheivous, Reese( who has started to improve) Yemi, Washpun, and Pops. Moore was a decent 3 star that Martin wanted to turn into a PG. That didn't work but I like Moore enough that I would call him Martin's one solid "find". I don't recall Edwards being that highly rated out of Juco either.

So in 3 recruiting classes Martin is averaging about 2 projects a class. That's way too many.
 
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#152
#152
bleedingTNorange said:
So that you can have a team like Anthony Grant and Johnny Jones?
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We can all agree that Grant has done a poor job at Bama but Johnny Jones only has one of his real recruiting classes in school right now....If you were completely unbiased.....who would you think is setting up a better foundation to future success?
 
#153
#153
zansdad said:
My biggest knock on Martin's recruiting is the "diamond in the rough" guys. You can build a program around high 3 star and 4 star guys and sprinkle in a 5 star (Martin has gotten 2 in 3 years) But you can't keep taking flyers on unheard of guys. As best as I can remember that list is now, Cheivous, Reese( who has started to improve) Yemi, Washpun, and Pops. Moore was a decent 3 star that Martin wanted to turn into a PG. That didn't work but I like Moore enough that I would call him Martin's one solid "find". I don't recall Edwards being that highly rated out of Juco either.

So in 3 recruiting classes Martin is averaging about 2 projects a class. That's way too many.
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The good thing is this next class doesn't have 1
 
#154
#154
volbeast33 said:
We can all agree that Grant has done a poor job at Bama but Johnny Jones only has one of his real recruiting classes in school right now....If you were completely unbiased.....who would you think is setting up a better foundation to future success?
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Based on track record, who do I think has the most NCAAT in say the next 3 years?

Martin.
 
#157
#157
bleedingTNorange said:
The good thing is this next class doesn't have 1
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That's why I am actually quietly optimistic about next year's team. Though the guys aren't extremely high rated Martin actually seems to have recruited guys to fill needs this time around instead of just a bunch of guys that remind him of himself coming out of high school.
 
#158
#158
EZE said:
As our basketball history has shown, Tennessee can do a LOT worse than 10+ win SEC seasons. And, as our recent football history has shown us, we better be careful what we ask for. It wasn't that long ago we were down where Auburn is now in basketball.

If you look at the trend of the program in Pearl's last few seasons and then compare it to Martin's three seasons, Martin has a passing grade. Now, he needs to get us to the NCAA tournament, but I would not cut him loose after three straight 10 win conference seasons even if it doesn't happen this year.

Our fans seem so entitled. They think that just because we have players wearing orange, the coach should be able to just roll the balls out there and win national titles. It is a little bit more difficult than that. Again, 10+ win conference records should not be ignored. I don't care what the perceived strength of the conference is. I remember us being much, much worse.
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You are familiar with how bad SEC basketball is this season ? Looking to a 7 scholarship Vandy team is unacceptable. Bad coaching is bad coaching. Zo I is a bad coach. He doesn't even know when to call a time out. He calls them to stop momentum. I will support the basketball team but I am over it with Zo. He is in way over his head.
 
#159
#159
I don't care what other people think, Martin is still not the answer to our problems. Yea, he's been on a winning streak but against pretty bad teams. He's still WAY too inconsistent as a coach and he shows ZERO emotions on the sidelines. Why not hire a coach who can motivate his players to do the best they can and take up for his players when there's a bad call he doesn't like? Not once have I seen Martin get upset and get a technical in a game. He's struggled his 1st year, struggled his 2nd year, and is still struggling this year too with a very talented roster. We may barely squeeze into the tournament and that would be a huge improvement from his last two seasons but that's still not enough. I've seen all the proof I needed to see to know that he's not what Tennessee basketball needs. If Hart doesn't make a coaching change after this season, it would be a HUGE mistake. I'd still love to have Pearl back but I'd take a chance of hiring any coach out there in a heart beat than retaining Martin. You can holler "If he makes the tournament, he deserves another year" all you want too but facts are facts, he hasn't proved anything to us that he can make Tennessee basketball relevant again. The longer Martin stays here, the more it gets worse.
 
#160
#160
Yes, if Martin makes the dance fire him and hire any other coach in America, that's sounds like a great plan.

Lulz
 
#161
#161
VolFreakJosh said:
I don't care what other people think, Martin is still not the answer to our problems. Yea, he's been on a winning streak but against pretty bad teams. He's still WAY too inconsistent as a coach and he shows ZERO emotions on the sidelines. Why not hire a coach who can motivate his players to do the best they can and take up for his players when there's a bad call he doesn't like? Not once have I seen Martin get upset and get a technical in a game. He's struggled his 1st year, struggled his 2nd year, and is still struggling this year too with a very talented roster. We may barely squeeze into the tournament and that would be a huge improvement from his last two seasons but that's still not enough. I've seen all the proof I needed to see to know that he's not what Tennessee basketball needs. If Hart doesn't make a coaching change after this season, it would be a HUGE mistake. I'd still love to have Pearl back but I'd take a chance of hiring any coach out there in a heart beat than retaining Martin. You can holler "If he makes the tournament, he deserves another year" all you want too but facts are facts, he hasn't proved anything to us that he can make Tennessee basketball relevant again. The longer Martin stays here, the more it gets worse.
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Martin shows enough emotion. He's just not Pearl. I would bet more coaches have demeanors closer to Martin's than to Pearl's every night 3 ring circus on the sidelines. I liked Pearl but I don't get the bashing of Martin's sideline demeanor. If he yelled and made an ass of himself everyone would complain about that and compare him to Florida's football coach.
 
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#164
#164
bleedingTNorange said:
This is something I've thought about before, I'm not sure I'll get a honest or unbiased answer, but play along for a minute.

Year 1 expectations were way down, picked to finish 11th in the conference, and not even make the NIT. Let's say the finish 8th, a little above .500 and make the NIT. I think the perception by most is that he likely did about what most thought he would do.

Year 2...expectations are higher, you're picked to finish around 4th in the conference preseason, and be a borderline NCAAT bubble team. Little does everyone know that your all-sec forward will not play a single game. Have to assume predictions would've been slightly different if it was known Maymon wouldn't play a single game. Still they come close to meeting original set expectations, but ultimately miss the dance.

Year 3....expectations by fans and media vary quite a bit. Most fans seem to think 24+ wins, top 25 team, and a 6 seed or better. Media and "experts" seem to think 20ish wins, and around a 7-8 seed being more likely. The seasons not over so hard to finish writing this one.

Now this isn't meant to defend him as I think most know my feelings on Martin and if we miss the dance, but it's something I have definitely thought about. Did year 1 raise expectations too quickly, and make everyone think that the lowest he would set the bar was as a bubble team and top 4 in conference?

Jmo
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I consider myself fairly honest and unbiased, I think. I definitely think it raised expectations, a lot of people won't even acknowledge he overachieved in year 1. Realistic fans thought we would struggle big time year 1, h*ll I thought we would a couple years honestly. If he had done what you said year 1, then maybe we would be easier on him. The problem is that team did overachieve, so now that we are bubble bouncing with a more talented team it's frustrating and confusing. His recruiting has left fans scratching their heads a little too. So yes year 1 raised expectations, but you still have to build off that. Let's be 100% honest though if he had done what rational fans had expected, the irrational would have been screaming for Bruce because of that. He was a little screwed either way.
 
#166
#166
zansdad said:
Martin shows enough emotion. He's just not Pearl. I would bet more coaches have demeanors closer to Martin's than to Pearl's every night 3 ring circus on the sidelines. I liked Pearl but I don't get the bashing of Martin's sideline demeanor. If he yelled and made an ass of himself everyone would complain about that and compare him to Florida's football coach.
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It's the same ole crap, those that don't like him will find anything. Obviously the OP didn't watch last nights game, the announcers continually discussed how involved Martin was. At one point they even said on defense it's like Tennessee has 6 defenders because of how involved he gets.
 
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#169
#169
bleedingTNorange said:
It's the same ole crap, those that don't like him will find anything. Obviously the OP didn't watch last nights game, the announcers continually discussed how involved Martin was. At one point they even said on defense it's like Tennessee has 6 defenders because of how involved he gets.
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I'm just glad he hasn't been the 6th defender while we're on offense, the last couple of games. lol
 
#171
#171
I am not on the fire Zo train,I just want whats best for the university and this team. It seems like year after year his teams wait till the end of the year to try and prove that they are a tourney team.Why wait? Tired of being on the bubble.
 
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#172
#172
The team played great the last two games.
Yet, they are still a bubble team and must have a decent showing in the tourney. So, it's still an unknown regarding CCM's future.

The last two games show you that this team had untapped potential and simply did not live up to expectations. No one is saying they should have swept Florida, but they certainly should not have been swept by A&M. This team is not big wins away from being a tourney lock. Instead the bad losses might (and i emphasize, might) come back to bite them.

How well they are playing now only confirms that CCM did not connect with, and extract the potential out of this team earlier in the year. UT should be far from having to squeak in as a bubble team, and having to bite their nails on selection day.
 
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#173
#173
bleedingTNorange said:
It's the same ole crap, those that don't like him will find anything. Obviously the OP didn't watch last nights game, the announcers continually discussed how involved Martin was. At one point they even said on defense it's like Tennessee has 6 defenders because of how involved he gets.
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Yeah. It's almost weird to watch another game on TV and not hear "HANDS!" as a defender closes out on a shooter. Yet there are still people that complain that Martin isn't into the game or just sits on the bench. I got plenty of issues with Martin but his sideline demeanor isn't one of them.
 
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#175
#175
zansdad said:
Yeah. It's almost weird to watch another game on TV and not hear "HANDS!" as a defender closes out on a shooter. Yet there are still people that complain that Martin isn't into the game or just sits on the bench. I got plenty of issues with Martin but his sideline demeanor isn't one of them.
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My thoughts as well
 
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