Six to 10?

[utvolpj]

Yeah, I said the exact thing at the end of his second season and pretty much everyone here said he needed more time.

that's simply not true. He had just finished the season by losing to Kentucky (which killed our bowl hopes) and his players looked like they would prefer to be in their dorms. The support for Dooley was extremely low after season #2

 

[Lexvol]

that's simply not true. He had just finished the season by losing to Kentucky (which killed our bowl hopes) and his players looked like they would prefer to be in their dorms. The support for Dooley was extremely low after season #2

"Everyone" is probably and overstatement, but it was still 70/30 in support of Dooley.

 

[Spartacavolus]

"Everyone" is probably and overstatement, but it was still 70/30 in support of Dooley.

many people like me knew he wasn't going anywhere after year 2 and tried to support the program and team as long as we could rather than rehash what everybody already knew, in regards to ky game, etc.
The stuff about him trying to resign, etc, was straight up bs, yet it helped get angry folk even more angry, even though there wasn't one ounce of truth to it.
I'm just glad it's over and had the sense of relief after Mizzou as it was well known after the game that it was finally over.

 

[Lexvol]

many people like me knew he wasn't going anywhere after year 2 and tried to support the program and team as long as we could rather than rehash what everybody already knew, in regards to ky game, etc.
The stuff about him trying to resign, etc, was straight up bs, yet it helped get angry folk even more angry, even though there wasn't one ounce of truth to it.
I'm just glad it's over and had the sense of relief after Mizzou as it was well known after the game that it was finally over.

Nothing wrong with supporting the players. I feel bad for those who had to endure the Dooley era….

The only obvious thing that happened at the end of year 2 was that Dooley had lost the locker room. Nothing good is going to happen with a program after that happens.

 

[Spartacavolus]

Nothing wrong with supporting the players. I feel bad for those who had to endure the Dooley era….

The only obvious thing that happened at the end of year 2 was that Dooley had lost the locker room. Nothing good is going to happen with a program after that happens.

I agree. Just glad it's over. If he doesn't hire Sal, he may still be here and thank the Lord above he isn't.
I got false hope against NC state. Our D looked great and offense looked unstoppable. Still carried over to UF until 3rd quarter and it's like 3-4 series of horrible game management and playcalling, as well as deer in headlights, sent them into a funk for the rest of the year.

 

[Sandvol]

Daj brings up some good points but I was only referring to this year's schedules. And yes our SOS was tougher, but I think the argument that it really wears out the team playing that SOS is bogus. If we had been in those games then yes that might be a good argument. But when you're blown out by Oregon, Alabama, Missouri and Auburn that argument doesn't really hold water. If we'd gone down to the wire in those games and lost then I think that argument is compelling.

P.S.-And, when you think about a team being worn out you talk about significant injuries. What significant injuries have we had except quarterbacks' thumbs?

 

[sjt18]

We've become progressively worse because Kiffin inherited the best coached team we've seen since. It was so well coached, we would have wanted the Sullin twins on the line this year with our NFL line.

I can only hope you are being sarcastic.

The Sullins twins though full of heart and orange blood would not have started for any other Vol team in the last 20 years at least.

I only mentioned part of it. The DL recruiting was barely better than the OL recruiting. Hardesty was the best returning back with less than 300 career yds. Crompton was a mess... and the next best option quit then couldn't even excel at Chattanooga.

Kiffin inherited a load of NFL talent - talent he proved he could not evaluate - and a team of well-coached winners.

Winners? The previous year they "won" enough to get an iconic coach fired.

Odd that you would try this case against Kiffin though. If the '13 roster had holes... the 09 roster had craters and especially along the line of scrimmage.

He did not "fix" Crompton,

Yeah. Between him and Chaney they pretty much did. It was a poorly kept secret that Cut really didn't care for Crompton. Good, bad, or indifferent... JC never starts if Cut stays.

and Kiffin had a few major blow-outs late because the team became worse under his "leadership."

The worst loss that year was to a 9-4 Ole Miss team. They lost by 25 pts. UT lost four games by more than 25 pts this year. The only other "blowout" was a 23 pt loss to a 10 win Va Tech team in the Chik-Fil-A Bowl.

 

[oregonvol]

that's simply not true. He had just finished the season by losing to Kentucky (which killed our bowl hopes) and his players looked like they would prefer to be in their dorms. The support for Dooley was extremely low after season #2

"Pretty much everyone" was hyperbole. That said, are you claiming that the majority on here didn't argue that he needed more time?

 

[Sandvol]

"Yeah. Between him and Chaney they pretty much did. It was a poorly kept secret that Cut really didn't care for Crompton. Good, bad, or indifferent... JC never starts if Cut stays."

The only thing they needed and taught him to do was step up in the pocket. He had developed a habit of running out of the pocket under pressure and not stepping up into the pocket thus it was eliminating half the field for him and making it harder to deliver the ball. Kiffin and Chaney finally got him to stop doing that. It exasperated Cutcliffe because he did it as a freshman. It is a shame it took 31/2 years to do that.

 

[Sandvol]

"Pretty much everyone" was hyperbole. That said, are you claiming that the majority on here didn't argue that he needed more time?

I wasn't really a contributor to the board at that time but after the Kentucky fiasco I was ready to part ways with Dooley. Two years was enough of his junk. (I really felt after the first year he wouldn't make it. I kind of feel the same way about Jones but not as strongly.)

 

[Sandvol]

To interject about Kiffin there were two big advantages he did have and that was Hardesty and Berry. Eric Berry struck fear into the hearts of offenses-especially running backs-very dominating player. But, our talent had dropped significantly by 2009. I think overall our talent was better this year than it was in 2009-better offense and defensive lines, and overall better secondary. Wide receivers were probably about the same but 2009 running backs better because of Hardesty.

 

[daj2576]

daj for a little more perspective on the man behind the curtain theory, watch what happens at the other UT. they just ditched a coach that was almost a clone of CPF (158 wins, 2 conference titles, 1 NC, strong recruiter, nosedive in performance over the last 4 years).

i would put my money on other UT not hiring a HC with a losing record (much less 2 consecutive HCs with losing records), and not hiring a coach with a near .500 record from the little east.

They handled the replacement of Brown with as much tact as we handled the booting of Fulmer. That isn't a good sign that their administration is more competent.

Their administration does have more available cash than UT, so the odds are that they can throw much more money at a problem than UT could. Comparing the two financial situations is a rocky road and does nothing to prove or disprove the conspiracy theorists that think that Tennessee is being handcuffed by being cheap (as some on here suggest), as opposed to being handcuffed by Mike Hamilton and less available cash (as I am suggesting).

So more money plus more competent administration means it is more likely that Texas lands a big name coach (also the perception is that Texas is a better program currently, opens up more doors on the ease of recruiting alone).

 

[sjt18]

To interject about Kiffin there were two big advantages he did have and that was Hardesty and Berry. Eric Berry struck fear into the hearts of offenses-especially running backs-very dominating player. But, our talent had dropped significantly by 2009. I think overall our talent was better this year than it was in 2009-better offense and defensive lines, and overall better secondary. Wide receivers were probably about the same but 2009 running backs better because of Hardesty.

I would swap the last two. Hardesty was great... but alone. Kiffin screwed with Poole trying to give Brown and Oku carries to help recruiting. Granted when all is said and done this year's OL was better but Neal had a better ypc than Hardesty by a pretty significant amount as did Lane.

The upside of the WR's on the roster now on the whole is better but Jones, Moore, Stocker, and even Hancock were more effective as receivers that year.

 

[daj2576]

Daj brings up some good points but I was only referring to this year's schedules. And yes our SOS was tougher, but I think the argument that it really wears out the team playing that SOS is bogus. If we had been in those games then yes that might be a good argument. But when you're blown out by Oregon, Alabama, Missouri and Auburn that argument doesn't really hold water. If we'd gone down to the wire in those games and lost then I think that argument is compelling.

P.S.-And, when you think about a team being worn out you talk about significant injuries. What significant injuries have we had except quarterbacks' thumbs?

So you don't think getting run over is more exhausting than "barely" losing? In my personal experience, going up against entities that are vastly superior takes a much larger toll than going up against opponents that are only slightly superior. It takes more resources, physically and emotionally, to continue to fight when you have no chance than it does to fight when there is hope of a win on the other side.

 

[Sandvol]

So you don't think getting run over is more exhausting than "barely" losing? In my personal experience, going up against entities that are vastly superior takes a much larger toll than going up against opponents that are only slightly superior. It takes more resources, physically and emotionally, to continue to fight when you have no chance than it does to fight when there is hope of a win on the other side.

But, usually you have to have some indicator to support your contention that the season is taking some toll emotionally or physically besides the losing record. Physically there is no indicator because there are essentially no injuries. Emotionally I don't really see any indicators because the team didn't seem to give up on him and played well at Kentucky. Just to say it took a toll because it must have because of the record isn't really supportive.

P.S.-Gosh, we seemed like we really took it to a lot of teams physically like Georgia and South Carolina when we knocked a lot of their players out of the game. Didn't see that happen to us in any of the games.

 

[WesternKyVol]

that's simply not true. He had just finished the season by losing to Kentucky (which killed our bowl hopes) and his players looked like they would prefer to be in their dorms. The support for Dooley was extremely low after season #2

wrong

 

[WesternKyVol]

Whoever said 70-30 was in the zone.

http://www.volnation.com/forum/tennessee-vols-football/147882-do-you-think-derek-dooley-should.html

 

[Sandvol]

So you don't think getting run over is more exhausting than "barely" losing? In my personal experience, going up against entities that are vastly superior takes a much larger toll than going up against opponents that are only slightly superior. It takes more resources, physically and emotionally, to continue to fight when you have no chance than it does to fight when there is hope of a win on the other side.

Another thing, I think defeatism set in because our defense performed pretty well but when they kept seeing game after game that the offense could do nothing it wears during the course of the game. But, if anyone had the right to say it took a toll on us was the defense and they played well against both Vandy and Kentucky so that argument doesn't hold water.

 

[volgrad500]

It's funny, most of the time fans would be bragging "UT is a pipeline to the NFL, we are gonna put 6-8 guys in the league!!" But since that doesn't fit with the "we have no talent and can't be expected to compete" argument, it has to all be BS.

 

[sjt18]

Another thing, I think defeatism set in because our defense performed pretty well but when they kept seeing game after game that the offense could do nothing it wears during the course of the game. But, if anyone had the right to say it took a toll on us was the defense and they played well against both Vandy and Kentucky so that argument doesn't hold water.

Dooley was done at UT the moment Hunter went down at UF. The O had little punch after that. The D played well enough that year to win 8+ games.

Couple that D with last year's O... and Dooley is still employed at UT after competing for the SEC.

Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers, huh?

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

This is the reality of the situation…but it also shows how harmful it was to give Dooley year 3.

It was a waste of a season.

This x1000.

He should never have been allowed on the bus after Lexington. We would have been far better off making Wilcox the interim.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

I can only hope you are being sarcastic.

The Sullins twins though full of heart and orange blood would not have started for any other Vol team in the last 20 years at least.

But they would have played on the 2013 Vols.

I only mentioned part of it. The DL recruiting was barely better than the OL recruiting. Hardesty was the best returning back with less than 300 career yds. Crompton was a mess... and the next best option quit then couldn't even excel at Chattanooga.

Uh, he is a hero in Chattanooga and is in the NFL, unlike Crompton.

Winners? The previous year they "won" enough to get an iconic coach fired.

If Hambone actually handles the transition with class, the Vols actually go 6 - 6 that year. And they probably win a bowl game with 15 practices to get the Clawfense down.

Odd that you would try this case against Kiffin though. If the '13 roster had holes... the 09 roster had craters and especially along the line of scrimmage.

Not really. We've seen the effect of coaching. An offensive line which will all play in the NFL has been uninspiring. The Sullin twins almost beat Alabama. In addition, and I used to post the actual draft numbers, Kiffin inherited numerous NFL'ers.

Yeah. Between him and Chaney they pretty much did. It was a poorly kept secret that Cut really didn't care for Crompton. Good, bad, or indifferent... JC never starts if Cut stays.

No, they didn't. I guess we all missed all the coaching Chaney gave Bray. The game simply slowed down for the 5th year Crompdaddy halfway through his senior year.

The worst loss that year was to a 9-4 Ole Miss team. They lost by 25 pts. UT lost four games by more than 25 pts this year. The only other "blowout" was a 23 pt loss to a 10 win Va Tech team in the Chik-Fil-A Bowl.

Exactly. Two blow-out losses to two teams with inferior talent. And you forget the loss to UCLA which was as ridiculous as the Vandy loss this year. And Kentucky! Game, set, and match.

See above.

PS - I agree with all your reservations about BuJo and the "best staff in America."

 

[sjt18]

There is simply no way on earth the Sullins boys would have started for the '13 Vols. They just wouldn't and wouldn't have been in the 2 deep either. Great guys I'm sure... but the 09 OL roster was depleted.

 

[Eddie Vol Halen]

There is simply no way on earth the Sullins boys would have started for the '13 Vols. They just wouldn't and wouldn't have been in the 2 deep either. Great guys I'm sure... but the 09 OL roster was depleted.

Didn't say start.

They would have been on the 2-deep absolutely no question.

In addition, I'd like to know who has actually been as consistent as the Sullin twins since their graduation? You will be backtracking a mighty long way to say otherwise.

Just the final nail in your coffin on this one, sjt18, who was the last back to rush for 1000 yards for TN???? The truly final nail in the coffin is that the East was actually stronger when the Sullin twins played.

I agree with your analysis of BuJo and "the best staff in America"'s Year One.

 

[Sandvol]

"In addition, I'd like to know who has actually been as consistent as the Sullin twins since their graduation? You will be backtracking a mighty long way to say otherwise."

What do you mean?