So can we revisit the Butch Davis hissy fit yet? (merged)

#176
#176
3L with debt said:
Well, yes.

I agree that his results are not that fantastic but I still think he is a great coach. I never thought he was an elite coach. (From what I can tell, there are only two of those elite types and they are both in this conference.)

You could very well be right about CBD but at the time of the coaching search, it would be hard to dismiss CBD as the best person for the job. My comments at that time simply reflect that belief. I am not calling for him to be the HC now but simply responding to your thread as one of those who had a hissy fit then.

I have enjoyed the discussion though.
Click to expand...

I don't disagree that, at the time of the coaching search, Davis was the most attractive candidate. My argument is with the posters who insisted throughout the spring and summer -- and I don't recall if you were one of them -- that Hamilton had been guilty of gross incompetence by failing to do whatever it took to get Davis in Knoxville. And that was the argument -- Hamilton had completely failed at his job and ought to be fired because he didn't do whatever it took to get the Proven Winner du Jour like Alabama did to go get Saban. Full on bile, etc.

I would think that a Proven Winner ought, at the very least, to be currently winning. Especially against competition that's about two or three notches below what he'd be seeing if he were coaching in the SEC. Maybe Davis was the most obviously attractive candidate at the time of the coaching search, but this season has surely vindicated Mike Hamilton so far.
 
Last edited:
#177
#177
interesting thread -- now we need a comparable one about mike leach. j/k

i'm very pleased with CLK so far and believe that he was the right choice. the only "what if" thoughts i have are about brian kelly.
 
#178
#178
If we were solely going by what a guy did a decade ago then we'd all still be Fulmer supporters. Davis just might be washed up...
 
#179
#179
tvolsfan said:
I'd take a 45 year old with a super bowl ring as a head coach over pretty much anyone. Kelly is Tressel 2.0 IMO. I think he is good, but I would have loved someone like Gruden to come here.
Click to expand...

We got somebody like Gruden... only better. We got Lane. We got the best deal.. bar none. Gruden is too immersed in the NFL thinking to be a hit with the kids.. IMO. Kiffin still knows what college ball is all about. We hit the lottery fellas. We just have to be patient this year... maybe next... but holding the gators close.. holding Bama close (unless we turn it around in the second half and beating them) does wonders for recruiting. Get on the Lane train.... there's lots of room.
 
#180
#180
I like Lane being here. I'm a little worried about if he will leave soon and what will happen then.
 
#183
#183
Hat I have not read back in this thread but were you a Butch Davis fan...I assume you weren't but could be wrong considering you bumped this thread right after he just beat a sorry V tech team.
 
#184
#184
Not really, but everyone was so down on him last week. Pretty big win on the road. And they controlled most of the game, too.
 
#189
#189
I was hoping for the Va.Tech loss. With their loss, Bama on a bye and a solid Tx win against Ok.St, maybe Bama will drop to #3 in the BCS poll (SOS). I know in the big picture it's not a big deal but, it will make the Bammers unhappy, and I like it!!
 
#191
#191
tidwell said:
Of the candidates that were discussed at great length, whether they were seriously considered or not, my three favorites were Davis, Gruden, and Kiffin in that order.

However, once Kiffin was hired and his incredible staff was assembled, I immediately had no regrets about having him at UT over Davis (or anyone else). As Vercing points out, UNC's season so far obviously makes one feel even better that the Vols ended up with Kiffin and this staff rather than Davis and whatever staff he could have possibly put together.
Click to expand...

QFT. My favorites were Gruden, Kiffin (With Monte, or Orgeron), and Davis in that order.

Your second paragraph expresses my sentiments exactly.
 
#192
#192
Awesome. In year three, in a terrible conference, he gets a big upset over a 14th-ranked team after his team's season is already over. Color me impressed.
 
#193
#193
Vercingetorix said:
Awesome. In year three, in a terrible conference, he gets a big upset over a 14th-ranked team after his team's season is already over. Color me impressed.
Click to expand...
What was his record in his third year at Miami, in the far more awful Big East? How'd that turn out?
 
#194
#194
He started in a bigger probation-ridden hole in Miami. The ACC is so awful this year that a team that lost to both William & Mary and Southern Miss can roar out to a 2-1 conference record. There's no excuse for Davis to start out 0-3 in that conference in his third year.

My argument isn't with people who think Butch Davis is a good football coach; I still think so myself. My argument is with all of the people who defecated on the Kiffin hire all off-season because they thought that Hamilton should have pulled down Mt Le Conte and presented it to Davis to get him in Knoxville, because he was supposed to be a Sure Thing, Proven Winner type. I would submit that if you're three years in and your season was cooked halfway through October in this year's version of the ACC, you might be too much of a long-term-picture guy to throw into the sharks' pool of the modern SEC.

I don't doubt that he's still pretty good, but equating him with Saban like so many VN posters did seems, at this point, to have been clearly wishful thinking.
 
#196
#196
hatvol96 said:
I'd much rather take over Miami on probation than inherit a program from John Bunting.
Click to expand...

I would too. But it still took Davis six years to build the program back up. He built that Miami program before widespread use of the internet, before recruiting obsessives, before the Worldwide Leader came to dominate everything about the modern sports scene. You don't get six years anymore at a program that has designs on winning championships.

I like Davis. I wanted him in Knoxville. But it's surreal to see him losing to teams like Virginia in his third year, and to see his team's season essentially over halfway through October. I went to the Georgia Tech/UNC game here in Atlanta a few weeks ago, and his team basically didn't even compete. I was stunned to see how haphazardly coached they looked.
 
#197
#197
I'm not saying this would have actually worked out this way, but if I knew for a fact that after a few years of struggling that Davis would put together a team like he did at Miami, I would take the struggles in a heartbeat.
 
#198
#198
tvolsfan said:
I'm not saying this would have actually worked out this way, but if I knew for a fact that after a few years of struggling that Davis would put together a team like he did at Miami, I would take the struggles in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

Well of course, but you don't really know, do you? Davis is basically Fulmer's age. He had his success in Miami when he was Gruden's age. The college game is different now; he's different now. Can an old guy walk into a college program in 2009 and start methodically building it the same way he started building a different program in 1995?

Maybe at this time next year Davis will be frogstomping the ACC, but at this point it's really hard to see why he's a coach for whom we should have completely whored ourselves out to go get.
 
#199
#199
Vercingetorix said:
Well of course, but you don't really know, do you? Davis is basically Fulmer's age. He had his success in Miami when he was Gruden's age. The college game is different now; he's different now. Can an old guy walk into a college program in 2009 and start methodically building it the same way he started building a different program in 1995?

Maybe at this time next year Davis will be frogstomping the ACC, but at this point it's really hard to see why he's a coach for whom we should have completely whored ourselves out to go get.
Click to expand...
No, I don't. It's just fun to imagine a secondary like that playing for UT. I mean, Tennessee's is good now, but that was unfair.
 
#200
#200
Vercingetorix said:
I'm not unsympathetic towards or contemptuous of the ACC in general -- I've become pretty much a Tech fan by proxy, as I have a bunch of friends here in Atlanta who are Tech alumni. I watch a crapton of ACC football. But come on, call a spade a spade -- the ACC championship game has been empty every year it's been played, including when it was Tech vs. Wake. And if the argument is that those two teams don't have a big enough fanbase to support serious college football either, then well, you're talking about at least a quarter of your conference. I agree that Charlotte is a better location for the game, but seriously, there's just no way that anyone could seriously argue that the ACC is in any way comparable to the SEC right now.

Which is why, when the circa-2009 version of Butch Davis is failing in the ACC, I can't understand the argument that he'd do even better if only he were in the tougher SEC.
Click to expand...

I think the comparison to Butch Davis would be that he would have better talent in the SEC, more like he had at Miami.

Just to say one more thing on the ACC vs SEC. I agree the level of passion in the ACC regarding football is not nor will it ever be like the SEC. That said, schools like FSU, Miami, Clemson, Va Tech, and Georgia Tech will always be more passionate about football than basketball.

I'll stand by my point that the jury is still out on the ACCCG until it moves out of Florida. The year GT was in the game, they had just lost a game to UGA that should have been a W, and it was raining, no one wanted to go. If the ACCCG was in Charlotte, it will be a sell out if it involves at least one of the following teams:

- Clemson
- North Carolina
- Virginia Tech
- Georgia Tech
- NC State

The remaining non-Florida schools (Duke, BC, Wake, Maryland, Virginia) either aren't large enough to draw 60,000, or don't care enough about football). The only teams that would be at a disadvantage would be the Florida teams. I think the FSU of the 90's would travel, not sure about right now. No way Miami sells out a game, they couldn't even sell 20,000 tickets to their home stadium when they were in the top 10.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top