So can we revisit the Butch Davis hissy fit yet? (merged)

#126
#126
Yeah, the reason Tampa is 0-6 is because Gruden didn't develop the players, even though Gruden wasn't this awful with them last year.
 
#127
#127
UNC shouldn't be winless in the ACC right now, but they're still not a very talented team overall.

Their freshman class is solid, and they've got a couple of impressive guys here and there (Little, Austin)...but, it's not as if he's losing with a top 15 or 20 roster.

I still think he'll win a conference championship at UNC.
 
#128
#128
tvolsfan said:
Yeah, the reason Tampa is 0-6 is because Gruden didn't develop the players, even though Gruden wasn't this awful with them last year.
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They aren't the same team that Gruden had a year ago. All of those guys were traded away or cut after he was fired. And the young talent that is there now isn't developing. That is how you explain 0-6.
 
#129
#129
braths said:
He doesn't have good players. Why doesn't he have good players? Because they weren't coached. Further proof that NFL coaches DO have to develop talent, even if they were four year starters in college.
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Right. That is the answer.

:blink:


Ever stop to think that Tampa won't spend the money for any good player under 35? Or, that the head coach has more responsibilities to take care of and his assistants are the ones to "develop" draft pics?

Besides, in the NFL you don't teach, you game plan, and Gruden can game plan. Anyone thinking Davis can out coach Gruden is laughable.
 
#130
#130
The Bucs had back-to-back a 9-7 season. They get rid of Gruden, Garcia, Galloway and Brooks, and add a healthy Cadillac as well as Kellen Winslow, Byron Leftwich and Derrick Ward. They are 0-6 with a pathetic offense, and they didn't really get all that much younger. Glazers are geniuses.

Not to mention Kellen Winslow's contract is idiotic given his track record. Winslow could prove me wrong, but he is the highest paid TE in NFL history, and there are several TE's I would take in place of him. I'm just talking performance, Winslow's baggage is another issue.
 
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#131
#131
braths said:
They aren't the same team that Gruden had a year ago. All of those guys were traded away or cut after he was fired. And the young talent that is there now isn't developing. That is how you explain 0-6.
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I thought Gruden was the reason talent wasn't "developing?"
 
#132
#132
timmy said:
Right. That is the answer.

:blink:


Ever stop to think that Tampa won't spend the money for any good player under 35? Or, that the head coach has more responsibilities to take care of and his assistants are the ones to "develop" draft pics?

Besides, in the NFL you don't teach, you game plan, and Gruden can game plan. Anyone thinking Davis can out coach Gruden is laughable.
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I never said that Davis could outcoach Gruden.
 
#133
#133
timmy said:
I thought Gruden was the reason talent wasn't "developing?"
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There had to be some reason behind it. Bottom line here, Tampa couldn't reach that Super Bowl level after they won in 2003. Something didn't go right within that organization and Gruden took the fall. End of the story on that.
 
#134
#134
VolBeef88 said:
Anyone who doesnt think Butch Davis is a very good coach should be banned from watching football.
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Lane Kiffin's team looks more well-coached after six games than Davis's does after three years.

He was a great coach at Miami. A decade ago.
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#136
#136
braths said:
There had to be some reason behind it. Bottom line here, Tampa couldn't reach that Super Bowl level after they won in 2003. Something didn't go right within that organization and Gruden took the fall. End of the story on that.
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The issue isn't whether or not the Bucs were a super bowl level team. We all know they haven't been since they won it. You claim he ran them into the ground. They were 9-7 the last 2 years. Back it up.
 
#138
#138
nbakerld said:
The issue isn't whether or not the Bucs were a super bowl level team. We all know they haven't been since they won it. You claim he ran them into the ground. They were 9-7 the last 2 years. Back it up.
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OK. Take out those two 9-7 seasons, the Super Bowl winning season, and the 11-5 record in 2005 and the Bucs were a combined 16-32 the rest of the time that he was there. Explanation?
 
#139
#139
In the last 25 years Tampa has 6 playoff appearances. Gruden was the coach for 3 of them. He ran them into the ground.
 
#140
#140
braths said:
OK. Take out those two 9-7 seasons and the 11-5 record in 2005 and the Bucs were a combined 16-32 the rest of the time that he was there. Explanation?
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Take out last season and 2006 and Urban Meyer has never won the SEC. Explanation?
 
#141
#141
braths said:
OK. Take out those two 9-7 seasons, the Super Bowl winning season, and the 11-5 record in 2005 and the Bucs were a combined 16-32 the rest of the time that he was there. Explanation?
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Take out Michael Jordan's 6 title seasons and then he doesn't have any titles. Explanation?
 
#142
#142
braths said:
There had to be some reason behind it. Bottom line here, Tampa couldn't reach that Super Bowl level after they won in 2003. Something didn't go right within that organization and Gruden took the fall. End of the story on that.
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The bottom line here, is that Gruden won a Super Bowl there, made the playoffs numerous times, had back to back 9-7 seasons before he was dismissed, and now they are 0-6.
 
#145
#145
braths said:
OK. Take out those two 9-7 seasons, the Super Bowl winning season, and the 11-5 record in 2005 and the Bucs were a combined 16-32 the rest of the time that he was there. Explanation?
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You are really grasping for straws if you are trying to throw out 4 of the 7 years he was in Tampa as evidence he sucked.
 
#146
#146
tvolsfan said:
Too easy to pass up. What kind of argument relies on ignoring 4 out of 7 seasons with a team in the NFL?
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The fact that he didn't keep the team at the high level of play from 2002 suggested some kind of deterioration in that team. It can't all be on the age of the players. The coach must take the blame somewhere.
 
#147
#147
Grudens coaching record in the NFL, 133 wins, 107 loses career winning pctg. .540, 26 loses from being a .500 coach...who wants that?
 
#148
#148
braths said:
The fact that he didn't keep the team at the high level of play from 2002 suggested some kind of deterioration in that team. It can't all be on the age of the players. The coach must take the blame somewhere.
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Nobody is saying he was a flawless coach, or that he had an impeccable record. There just aren't too many coaches that lose a job after back-to-back 9-7 seasons. Especially in a market like Tampa. And no rational person would say he ran them into the ground.
 
#149
#149
GmanTN said:
Grudens coaching record in the NFL, 133 wins, 107 loses career winning pctg. .540, 26 loses from being a .500 coach...who wants that?
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Yeah, only a MERE 26 losses away from being .500. .500 is pretty decent ball in the pro's. Obviously we wouldn't be happy with that, but that's cause this is college. Not only that, the guy did .540 in Oakland and Tampa Bay. All time Tampa has a .390 winning %. Who wants that? Glazers, apparently.
 
#150
#150
In my 40+ yrs of following football, .500 winning percentage at any level should not be tolerated. The money the coaches make in college and pro, there is no excuse to be .500 yr in and yr out, not to mention what the pro players make.
 
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