So the Tuohy's were phonies (Michael Oher)

#326
#326
Unfortunately, the judge will likely rule against inclusion of (i.e., ban) the NCAA angle in the case. (It made no sense for the NCAA to honor conservatorship retroactively).

Then rule against inclusion of (i.e., ban) the legal fact that the conservatorship (the Tuohy's own idea) legally required the Tuohys to act as Oher's legal representative in all deals they engaged in. They have broken the law in this respect, so far with impunity. (This is the massive fact on the ground that people keep willfully or ignorantly ignoring).

It's a shame how many cases turn on what judges prohibit from consideration. In many cases, without ground and with seeming bias.
 
#327
#327
To repeat: unless a judge works some mischief in precluding pertinent evidence, it makes absolutely no legal difference that Oher did not ask the Tuohys for financial advice. A conservatorship, in fact, is a specific instrument designed for cases where the "ward" is considered incapable of asking for advice. That's why the court appoints guardians. The "ward" is not expected to ask.

It also makes no legal difference if Oher didn't seek the Tuohys advice in his own NFL deals. It was still the Tuohys' legal obligation to advise Oher in all deals from the moment that the Tuohys filed the guardianship. Whatever Oher did or did not do in relation to the NFL, does not excuse the Tuohys from violating their legal obligation in all matters that involved Oher as a character, used his NIL, or in matters that employed a lie about his "adoption" as "donation bait" for their very profitable "non-profits."

If one replies, "Well, Oher obviously didn't need advice," then so much the worse for the Tuohys. They appear to have made a back-room deal with the NCAA, then shopped or influenced a judge to sign off on an inappropriate and apparently unprecedented legal instrument (guardianship) to wrongly dodge NCAA penalties. But the Tuohys by all rights are stuck with their actions. They can't credibly argue, like some of their supporters do, that the conservatorship was applicable to the NCAA retroactively (it wasn't), then turn around and claim that it was inapplicable in every provision as a legal document in all other matters. That's ridiculous! 😂

If Oher "recently" or "long ago" found out x, y, or z, does not change the Tuohys' obligations at law. All such stories appear to be aimed at confusing people and propogandizing.
 
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#328
#328
Also the Bar Association needs to investigate the attorney the Tuohys hired to counsel Oher to sign the conservatorship. She seems to have gone along with the Tuohys false representation that the guardianship was an adoption for people over 18.

If she continued to represent the Tuohys thereafter (which apparently she did), then she was further engaged in legal malpractice in not calling to the Tuohys every year thereafter of their legal obligation to advise Oher in everything touching on his interests and in reporting annually of what they had done for their legal ward.
 
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#329
#329
If it is true that "there are a lot of not just unusual, but shocking and maybe never before seen things [in the Tuohys' use of guardianship in Oher's case], for even attorneys experienced in this area," as two professors of trusts and estates have stated (#288), the Bar needs to look into the judge too.
 
#335
#335
@Orange if all you say is true about what they did was wrong with getting the conservatorship, I still don’t understand Oher’s damage and hence the reason for the suit.

It is known now the movie deal they made was standard and not unusual at the time. They gave Oher his fair shair.

The only way I see any damages for him is if he is now saying they should have helped him with his NFL legal and financial affairs because he was not competent which would actual then justify the conservatorship. I guess you can say they shouldn’t have let him do any signing without them. If that’s the case he is arguing against his own argument at times claiming to sometimes be competent and sometimes not…
 
#336
#336
How dare the Tuohy's take that boy from his home, put him in private school, house him, feed him, etc. etc. etc. etc.... and get him educated and into the NFL...............those ****ing selfish pricks!
 
#337
#337
Cod said:
How dare the Tuohy's take that boy from his home, put him in private school, house him, feed him, etc. etc. etc. etc.... and get him educated and into the NFL...............those ****ing selfish pricks!
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They didn't put him in private school. They didn't get him into the NFL either. They got him into Ole Miss, which was their game from the beginning.
 
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#338
#338
Dadof2Vols said:
@Orange if all you say is true about what they did was wrong with getting the conservatorship, I still don’t understand Oher’s damage and hence the reason for the suit.

It is known now the movie deal they made was standard and not unusual at the time. They gave Oher his fair shair.

The only way I see any damages for him is if he is now saying they should have helped him with his NFL legal and financial affairs because he was not competent which would actual then justify the conservatorship. I guess you can say they shouldn’t have let him do any signing without them. If that’s the case he is arguing against his own argument at times claiming to sometimes be competent and sometimes not…
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That is an interesting point about the movie deal. I am not aware of any reliable figures on it.
But to better understand the case one must notice that whatever occurred (the movie, e.g.) is not necessarily what would have been negotiated for Oher by an astute, experienced, trustworthy, and reliable person negotiating on Oher's behalf.

The Tuohys negotiating on their own behalf established book and movie deals that made them celebrities, completely hid their crookedness with respect to the NCAA, concealed and perpetuated their lies about adoption, made Oher appear to be a completely unmotivated imbecile who needed Leigh Anne Tuohy to explain football to him, and set themselves up to rake in millions in profits and further expand their falsely obtained celebrity through "non profit" enterprises and speaking engagements that are still ongoing. The Tuohys did not represent the financial interests or Oher's interests as touch on his public persona in each of these activities (which was required by law), even if they sent him some money. Oher would have had much better deals, had some say over content, equal or greater billing on the public speaking and "adoption" promotional "non" profits, and not have been depicted as a lackadaisical idiot who had to have football explained to as if he were 3 years old, for instance. He might have played himself in the movie. Who knows? Some people did. He certainly would not have endorsed the Tuohys lying about adopting him.

Consider my point this way. Imagine that Oher had hired a top-flight agent even before he signed at Ole Miss. This agent represented Oher in consideration of the recruiting commitment that would best advance his career and enjoyment, and the substance and profits of book, movie, ancillary businesses, and every aspect of Oher's name, likeness, and image that appeared frequently as the Tuohys' products, as well as products of his own. Don't you think each of those products and deals have been radically different?

But Oher did have such an agent representing his personal interests: The Tuohys. By law and by the Tuohys own connivance (in order to swindle the NCAA and keep Ole Miss from going on probation, to be sure, but that doesn't cancel the Tuohys' legal obligation). But the Tuohys did an absolute sh-t job for Oher, while stabbing him in the back, and making themselves celebrities and "heroes." But this was not from incompetence. The Tuohys are multi-centi-millionaires and very proven negotiators. The Tuohys voluntarily made themselves legally bound to apply all of their skill and effort to negotiating for Oher. And to report to Oher on a regular basis as to what they had done for him in his name. They betrayed his trust, harmed him enormously, while racking up untold benefits for themselves. Those are harms.
 
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#339
#339
vollygirl said:
They didn't put him in private school. They didn't get him into the NFL either. They got him into Ole Miss, which was their game from the beginning.
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I have seen it reported somewhere that Oher has said that because he was "adopted" he couldn't bear to go to another school (though it was clearly in his interest to) because he couldn't stand to have his "sister" cheering for a team he played. But she wasn't his sister, he wasn't adopted. He was being played and manipulated by well-heeled Ole Miss boosters. That some benefits accrued to him in the process does not change the primary fact on the ground.

Yet by virtue of the conservatorship that the Tuohys contrived to get themselves and Ole Miss out of likely probation, the Tuohys became immediately legally obligated to enroll Oher at the university that gave Oher the best chance to be developed as an offensive lineman and to advance his career by earning him more acclaim and publicity playing on a winning team. They wouldn't have had to lie to Michael and back-room rig up some preposturous and inapplicable deal with NCAA enforcement that never should have been allowed. They could have helped him all they wanted with clean intentions. Oher also would not have ended up depicted to the entire world as an idiot.

The Tuohys acted against Oher's interests and exclusively in their own from the very beginning. You are right to notice this.

It is good that you point out also that Oher was already in the private school, iirc. Ole Miss had identified Oher earlier as a target and several boosters were working the case. It is not true that the Tuohys saw Oher by accident driving down some street or accidentally in some gym (or whatever propaganda they had Hollywood broadcast for them, idk) when they had an overwhelming heart to help the "poor baby." They were in contact with other boosters.

One final thing worth noting. If Oher had been adopted he could legally have chosen whatever university he wished to enroll in since he was over 18 and a legal adult. But by means of substituting a conservatorship for an adoption, the Tuohys rigged up a situation in which Oher was not legally able to make a college decision on his own behalf. The Tuohys had turned Oher into a child or imbecile at law. The false and lying representation of Michael's "adoption" and "Mom" and "Dad," and the false and lying representation of conservatorship as "adoption for adults," bound Oher to the boosters emotionally. The conservatorship bound Oher legally to do the boosters' will.
 
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#341
#341
vollygirl said:
They didn't put him in private school. They didn't get him into the NFL either. They got him into Ole Miss, which was their game from the beginning.
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They took him from where he was at and therefore gave him the opportunity to get to where he is..... if they had chosen to do nothing where would he be? Not at Ole Miss, Not in the NFL and definitely not worth "reportedly" 20 Mil..... no idea his net worth just a quick google.
 
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#342
#342
Cod said:
They took him from where he was at and therefore gave him the opportunity to get to where he is..... if they had chosen to do nothing where would he be? Not at Ole Miss, Not in the NFL and definitely not worth "reportedly" 20 Mil..... no idea his net worth just a quick google.
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LOL
 
#343
#343
vollygirl said:
They didn't put him in private school. They didn't get him into the NFL either. They got him into Ole Miss, which was their game from the beginning.
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Would he have flunked out of private school if not for the Tuohys? That's the impression I got from the movie.
 
#345
#345
Awesome. The judge says she is "shocked" that such a unprecedented conservatorship was ever approved. "She said she had never seen in her 43-year career a conservatorship agreement reached with someone who was not disabled." (But we still aren't yet informed of who the judge is who approved the conservatorship and his or her ties to the Tuouys and to Ole Miss.)

The Tuohys continue to duck the issue that they were required to file timely annual updates on the conservatorship with the court, which they never did. (Because, as everyone should finally understand, the arrangement was never needed or intended to be a conservatorship. It was a fraudulent tactic to get away with a massive recruiting violation.)

The Tuohys admit that they have lied to world this entire time about their situation with Oher. They have changed their story suddenly to saying that they never intended to adopt Oher. 😂 "The Tuohys ... acknowledged that websites show them referring to Oher as an adopted son, but the term [adoption] was only used “in the colloquial sense" 😂 and "they never ever intended to adopt him."

The Tuohys finally admit that the scam of the unprecedented "conservatorship" was motivated exclusively by the wishes of the Tuohys and Ole Miss to break NCAA recruiting rules through an ad hoc manufactured loophole.

“When it became clear that the Petitioner could not consider going to the University of Mississippi (”Ole Miss”) as a result of living with the Respondents," [i.e., they had committed an enormous recruiting violation that the NCAA was not going to ignore] the Tuohys had a yet to be identified and investigated judge rig up a conservatorship-in-name-only for the occasion.

The fact that the Tuohys never negotiated NFL contracts for Oher is not exonerating, as they and others on their behalf have misleadingly claimed. It is hard evidence that the conservatorship was unnecessary for any reason other than getting Tuohy into Ole Miss against the rules. And it was never thereafter taken seriously by Tuohys for any other purpose thereafter.

The story that the interest of the Tuohys in Oher all along was to get him to Ole Miss is still a glaring omission in all the reporting. But it peeks through in them not admitting they never wanted him to be part of their family.

The Tuohys now initiate a new swindle trying to mislead the public into the believing that the NCAA -- and not the Tuohys and their go-betweens -- were the motive force behind negotiations to find a way for the Tuohys and Ole Miss to break the rules with impunity. The Tuohys instead say "The NCAA made it clear that he could not attend Ole Miss if he was not part of the Tuohy family in some fashion.”

Unfortunately, as much money as the multi-centi-millionaire Tuohys have, they will almost surely influence a judge and as many others as necessary to compel some settlement in order to keep the recruiting story suppressed. Just when the facts are coming out!

But the Tuohys book, movie, and "non profit" businesses and speaking tours founded on being the king and queen of loving adoption are exposed.

Sorry for anyone's sawft feelings or compulsion to side with the most money, but this was always about cheating at Ole Miss and breaking recruiting rules.
 
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#346
#346
woodpusher said:
Would he have flunked out of private school if not for the Tuohys? That's the impression I got from the movie.
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Well since none of the Tuohy apologists would ever answer you, I will tell you. They got him a tutor but he still fell sort of admission requirements. So, in a sense: no. I don't know if college admission requirement were the same as high school graduation requirements. But Hugh Freeze was his high school coach, so you can be pretty sure he would have stayed eligible one way or another.

So here is what the Tuohys did. They somehow found some fully on-line, two-week courses after high school, and rehired the tutor to make absolutely damn sure this time that he passed one way or another. There have always been suspicions that the tutor took those exams for or with Oher, who took the online exams in the Tuohys home, where the tutor always worked with him. But no one knows. So, in a sense: sort of.

Ole Miss hired Freeze with orders to bring Oher with him. Meanwhile the Tuohys worked behind the scenes to find a way to get around all the NCAA violations they had piled up. That turned out the be the scam conservatorship that Tuohys ignored forever the second after Oher got to Ole Miss.

And the entire story about adoption was always a lie, even though the Tuohys founded two profitable "non-profits" touting their "for the children" adoption hearts.
 
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#348
#348
The Tuohys' strategy now is almost surely to somehow bribe or otherwise compel or persuade a judge (or by some similar means) to force a settlement against the will of Oher and the public interest, in order to prohibit the collection of evidence.

Oher's attorney needs to go after all the NCAA and Ole Miss information and their communication with the Ohers, directly or through back-channels. The NCAA needs to be made an example of.

Who at the NCAA and Ole Miss was involved in this ad hoc "back-room" deal to knowingly excuse massive recruiting violations by means of an unprecedented conservatorship-in-name-only? Was there even a rule about "conservatorship," or did someone make that up on the spot?

It wouldn't hurt to collect evidence from Hugh Freeze, as well.
 
#349
#349
What do you guys think about the Tuohys admitting that they never had any intention of adopting Oher?

They talked about "adoption" frequently, but only with a super-secret "colloquial" sense in mind. 😂 This but-we-had-our-fingers-crossed-behind-our-backs excuse included their "adoption" businesses and speaking tours?
 
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