So, what is UConn doing to prevent turnovers which we aren't?

[Sandvol]

THERE IS NO RULE THAT STATES A POINT GUARD ON OFFENSE HAS TO GUARD THE OTHER POINT GUARD WHILE ON DEFENSE. WHY THE HELL IS IT SO HARD FOR YOU TO GRASP THIS CONCEPT? Andraya Carter could EASILY start at SG and guard the other team's PG. This isn't exactly rocket science.

Calm down shorty. Who said I didn't grasp that? Do you grasp that its a defensive liability when you have to switch off like that? Luigi finds a point guard who can guard.

 

[Sandvol]

How in the ever lovin hell is it "pretty dumb" to go by a/to ratio for a point guard? A/TO ratio is BY FAR the most telling stat for a point guard. I'm going to take a wild guess and say you think it's "pretty dumb" because it shoots a giant hole through your mind numbingly stupid statement.

The offense did not "run better" without Ariel. You thinking freshman Reynolds was anywhere near junior Massengale, who was probably among the five best PGs in the country at the time she got injured, at point guard is so stupid that I wonder if you're just trolling. Seriously. That's seriously so stupid it's hard to put it into words.

Team stats with Ariel playing (19 games):
81.8 ppg
45.38% FGs
17.63 assists per game
17.31 turnovers per game

Team stats without Ariel (16 games):
72.6 ppg
45.04% FGs
12.31 assists per game
14.63 turnovers per game

Yeah, our offense was obviously running so much better after Ariel went out. No change in FG% (basically) but quite a drop in points per game and assists vs. turnovers.

And obviously Ariel was doing something right. She was tops on the team in minutes played per game.

OBTW, Tucker is good, but she isn't as good as Diamond. Another mind-numbingly dumb statement from you.

Geez, another drama queen. I just based it on watching film of Tucker in high school versus DeShields. I thought she was more controlled and a better all-around player-nothing mind numbing. Also, those aren't really that telling of a statistic other than the team lost some offensive fire power when Ariel went out but gained some defensive fire power. And, do you think scoring 103 versus Troy and 110 versus Lipscomb might have skewed the point average? That's why you shouldn't just go by stats. I knew the stats were better with Ariel. Any dork can look up stats. You have to look beyone the stats and at the team's record and how they played. The team played better with Reynolds and Carter at point guard. Their offense flowed better. Points were distributed better and they played better all around defense. Also, this was evidenced in their record 15-4 with Ariel, 14-2 without. And, they didn't have teams like Troy, Oakland, and Lipscomb on their schedule. Also, I like Ariel, I think she is a good player. I just think she'd be a better two. When the other team had a really fast guarding point she even had trouble bringing it up the floor. Andraya and Reynolds didn't. Also, it doesn't shoot a hole through my statement because look at any team. Almost all teams have a point guard with about a two to one assist to turnover ratio and about 5 to 6 assists per game. No matter what their record. If this is such a telling stat for a point guard then why is this the same for most teams no matter what their record? Also, Ariel and Reynolds logged over half the year at another position so their A/TO is skewed. Yes you're right. Not rocket science.

 

[GameTime]

Are you seriously going to compare the team Geno took over in 1984 with the team Holly got. She should be judged on how she performs with the players she has in the circumstances she has. Comparing her to Pat or Geno and expecting those types of results is unfair to her. Now she will have a team that should be extremely competitive next season and even better after that. Let's judge her on what she does with them.

Tony, welcome to the board......It is always good to have fans of other teams represented...And by the way, UConn has been quite impressive and their fans that I have known are good guys/gals.

There is a lot of good happenings going on at both camps....Deshields will help develop the young talent at UT and will ingrain herself with the talent she will play with next season. It will pay huge dividends when she takes the court.

As long as you have Stewart, you guys will be awesome....She is quite a ball player, and even though she is a Husky, I like the girl/person a great deal.

I do believe it is time for old scores to be put away and the teams to play each other again....It would be good for the game...Not popular with some, but this feud is ridiculous.

Anyway son, it is good to have you here.

 

[volcrazy89]

Geez, another drama queen.

Sooo you can go around and spewing unbelievably stupid BS like this ... but I'm the drama queen. Bless your little heart.

I just based it on watching film of Tucker in high school versus DeShields. I thought she was more controlled and a better all-around player-nothing mind numbing.

You obviously didn't watch enough film.

Also, Diamond got QUITE a bit better her senior year and had a monsterous final season in high school. Tucker, OTOH, missed her last season due to her ACL tear.

And Tucker is indeed the real deal. But she simply isn't as good as Diamond. Seeing them on the same team together, though ... watch out.

Also, those aren't really that telling of a statistic other than the team lost some offensive fire power when Ariel went out but gained some defensive fire power.

YOU are the one that said the offense was run better without Ariel.

And, do you think scoring 103 versus Troy and 110 versus Lipscomb might have skewed the point average?

Do you think the majority of Reynolds' minutes being mop-up duty vs. scrubs doesn't skew her turnovers numbers?

That's why you shouldn't just go by stats. I knew the stats were better with Ariel. Any dork can look up stats.

Any dork should also be able to see that Massengale is by far the best PG on the team, too.

You have to look beyone the stats and at the team's record and how they played.

And you also have to look at stats, too, instead of totally ignoring them when they don't fit your argument. Stats don't tell the whole story, but they tell quite a bit. I'm looking at the whole picture. I attended several games in person and watched all of them play. I posted the stats to show you a concrete example instead of "well, I believe this way just because" like you. I didn't even get into intangibles, like how Rel is the most vocal player on the team and how her court vision, specifically in transition, is much better than Reynolds and especially Carter.

The team played better with Reynolds and Carter at point guard.

If you say so.

Their offense flowed better.

It most certainly did not.

Points were distributed better and they played better all around defense.

Not sure about points being distributed better. If so, it wouldn't surprise me given how Carter, the starter, pretty much never looks to score herself. It's good that she is unselfish but most of the team she was an offensive liability, which was rather maddening. There were many times she flat out wasn't being guarded by the other team.

Also, this was evidenced in their record 15-4 with Ariel, 14-2 without.

LOL. The fact that two of those losses with Rel came to Final Four teams (Stanford and Notre Dame) has nothing to do with anything, right? Do you think we would have beaten either of those teams with Ariel out? (Please don't say yes. You look like a big enough idiot already.)

And, they didn't have teams like Troy, Oakland, and Lipscomb on their schedule.

They did have teams like Ole Miss, Auburn, Mississippi State and Northwestern State on the schedule, though.

Also, I like Ariel

LOL. Yes, you are proving that so much.

I just think she'd be a better two.

Thank God Holly doesn't agree with you, nor have any of her coaches for the last several years, since she's been a PG for most of her life.

When the other team had a really fast guarding point she even had trouble bringing it up the floor. Andraya and Reynolds didn't.

Once again, bless your heart.

Also, it doesn't shoot a hole through my statement because look at any team. Almost all teams have a point guard with about a two to one assist to turnover ratio and about 5 to 6 assists per game. No matter what their record. If this is such a telling stat for a point guard then why is this the same for most teams no matter what their record?

Ok, the first statement is right, second statement about assists per game ... I don't know about that. Almost all teams do have a PG with between a 1-2 a/to ratio. And guess what? That's not all that great. Rel's a/to ratio was over 2.3. That's OUTSTANDING.

You would be well-served to stop acting like every team has a PG like Rel, whether it's based on stats or not. That's simply not true.

Also, Ariel and Reynolds logged over half the year at another position so their A/TO is skewed.

Oh, but if they are such great PGs, why weren't they getting minutes at PG over Rel? Why is it skewed because they are at other positions? For players that should be at PG, their assist numbers might not be as high as a PG, but a/to ratio shouldn't matter.

Of course Draya won't have as many turnovers as Massengale. She is NOWHERE near as aggressive. She's EXTREMELY passive, which is a bad trait for a PG. And I REALLY like Reynolds, and think her future is very bright at UT. She saved our ass in Duluth, and I was there to see it in person. But she won't be getting many minutes at PG over Massengale or Cooper (except for backup or if an injury occurs), but I would give her minutes over Carter. I really, really don't like Carter at PG at all.

Simply put: Rel is a true PG, and Carter and Reynolds are combo guards. There is a reason for that.

 

[volcrazy89]

Do you grasp that its a defensive liability when you have to switch off like that?

Nope, I sure don't. So please explain why it's a defensive liability.

Was it a liability when Nicky Anosike, a center, didn't just guard centers? Or Spencer, who was a SF but could guard posts, actually guarded posts? Or when Glory Johnson didn't just guard posts?

 

[Sandvol]

Nope, I sure don't. So please explain why it's a defensive liability.

Was it a liability when Nicky Anosike, a center, didn't just guard centers? Or Spencer, who was a SF but could guard posts, actually guarded posts? Or when Glory Johnson didn't just guard posts?

It's always a defensive liability to have to switch off. It is easier to lose your man especially in transition. Heck, how many transition points did Stanford and Notre Dame get against us? Too many to count.

 

[Sandvol]

Sooo you can go around and spewing unbelievably stupid BS like this ... but I'm the drama queen. Bless your little heart.



You obviously didn't watch enough film.

Also, Diamond got QUITE a bit better her senior year and had a monsterous final season in high school. Tucker, OTOH, missed her last season due to her ACL tear.

And Tucker is indeed the real deal. But she simply isn't as good as Diamond. Seeing them on the same team together, though ... watch out.



YOU are the one that said the offense was run better without Ariel.



Do you think the majority of Reynolds' minutes being mop-up duty vs. scrubs doesn't skew her turnovers numbers?



Any dork should also be able to see that Massengale is by far the best PG on the team, too.



And you also have to look at stats, too, instead of totally ignoring them when they don't fit your argument. Stats don't tell the whole story, but they tell quite a bit. I'm looking at the whole picture. I attended several games in person and watched all of them play. I posted the stats to show you a concrete example instead of "well, I believe this way just because" like you. I didn't even get into intangibles, like how Rel is the most vocal player on the team and how her court vision, specifically in transition, is much better than Reynolds and especially Carter.



If you say so.



It most certainly did not.



Not sure about points being distributed better. If so, it wouldn't surprise me given how Carter, the starter, pretty much never looks to score herself. It's good that she is unselfish but most of the team she was an offensive liability, which was rather maddening. There were many times she flat out wasn't being guarded by the other team.



LOL. The fact that two of those losses with Rel came to Final Four teams (Stanford and Notre Dame) has nothing to do with anything, right? Do you think we would have beaten either of those teams with Ariel out? (Please don't say yes. You look like a big enough idiot already.)



They did have teams like Ole Miss, Auburn, Mississippi State and Northwestern State on the schedule, though.



LOL. Yes, you are proving that so much.



Thank God Holly doesn't agree with you, nor have any of her coaches for the last several years, since she's been a PG for most of her life.



Once again, bless your heart.



Ok, the first statement is right, second statement about assists per game ... I don't know about that. Almost all teams do have a PG with between a 1-2 a/to ratio. And guess what? That's not all that great. Rel's a/to ratio was over 2.3. That's OUTSTANDING.

You would be well-served to stop acting like every team has a PG like Rel, whether it's based on stats or not. That's simply not true.



Oh, but if they are such great PGs, why weren't they getting minutes at PG over Rel? Why is it skewed because they are at other positions? For players that should be at PG, their assist numbers might not be as high as a PG, but a/to ratio shouldn't matter.

Of course Draya won't have as many turnovers as Massengale. She is NOWHERE near as aggressive. She's EXTREMELY passive, which is a bad trait for a PG. And I REALLY like Reynolds, and think her future is very bright at UT. She saved our ass in Duluth, and I was there to see it in person. But she won't be getting many minutes at PG over Massengale or Cooper (except for backup or if an injury occurs), but I would give her minutes over Carter. I really, really don't like Carter at PG at all.

Simply put: Rel is a true PG, and Carter and Reynolds are combo guards. There is a reason for that.

You're ability to properly evaluate is very suspect in my opinion. You're not very observant. Also, so you're saying 0.3 higher assist to turnover makes that substantial of a difference to a team? No, it doesn't. That might mean two to four points in a game. Defense is much more important and the ability to bring the ball up court quickly and to move the ball around and get the team into its offense. Ariel takes too long. Maybe you should stay home and watch more of the games on TV and then maybe you'd learn something. Holly is going to have a tough decision this year but you're right she'll probably succomb and start Ariel at point because that's what she'll be more comfortable doing. But, if she would have the courage to move Ariel to the two and use Reynolds and Carter at the one we'd have a better team. I really appreciate you giving me the blessings though.

 

[Sandvol]

LOL. The fact that two of those losses with Rel came to Final Four teams (Stanford and Notre Dame) has nothing to do with anything, right? Do you think we would have beaten either of those teams with Ariel out? (Please don't say yes. You look like a big enough idiot already.)

I think if we'd had Ariel at the two, Simmons on the bench, and Reynolds and Carter at the one we'd have beaten Stanford, not Notre Dame. You're a little pipsqueak aren't you?

 

[GameTime]

My friends you guys are on the same team.

You both make good points.

 

[Sandvol]

My friends you guys are on the same team.

You both make good points.

Thanks, you don't recognize this other individual do you?

 

[Amb3096]

It's always a defensive liability to have to switch off. It is easier to lose your man especially in transition. Heck, how many transition points did Stanford and Notre Dame get against us? Too many to count.

VC isn't talking about switching. He's talking about defensive assignments.

When Anosike and Spencer were on the team together, Spencer would often be assigned to guard the opposing team's center and Nicky would guard perimeter. Spencer was not a great perimeter defender, and she had the size to play defense inside even if she was a perimeter offensive player.

If Tennessee started Ariel and Andraya, and the opposing PG was lighting them up, there's no reason that Holly can't switch defensive assignments and let Andraya be the primary defender for the opposing PG. Players don't need to play the same position on offense and defense.

 

[Amb3096]

Thanks, you don't recognize this other individual do you?

I knew him from the ESPN board. He's an all around good guy and passionate LV fan.

 

[GameTime]

I knew him from the ESPN board. He's an all around good guy and passionate LV fan.

I second that.....It is sad to see you guys fighting each other.....Just agree to disagree and lets have fun on the board.....You both are great fans.:rock:

 

[armchair]

We need Massengale back in the lineup, no question. She is a genuine talent: run the team well, can pass, shoot and get to the basket. But she has issues. For one thing, she has never been very good defensively--she is soft on defense, a bit indifferent and/or lazy. Her other issue is that she lacks the toughness that great PGs and great team leaders have. This is her last go-round, so it would be nice to see her crank her play up another notch.

 

[reno tony]

Tony, welcome to the board......It is always good to have fans of other teams represented...And by the way, UConn has been quite impressive and their fans that I have known are good guys/gals.

There is a lot of good happenings going on at both camps....Deshields will help develop the young talent at UT and will ingrain herself with the talent she will play with next season. It will pay huge dividends when she takes the court.

As long as you have Stewart, you guys will be awesome....She is quite a ball player, and even though she is a Husky, I like the girl/person a great deal.

I do believe it is time for old scores to be put away and the teams to play each other again....It would be good for the game...Not popular with some, but this feud is ridiculous.

Anyway son, it is good to have you here.

Thank you for the welcome. I have enjoyed VN so far and it is interesting to get other perspectives on topics. I certainly hope UCONN/TENN could get the series going again. The last few years it might not have been so interesting but the coming years look like they could provide some great games. :yes:

 

[Sandvol]

VC isn't talking about switching. He's talking about defensive assignments.

When Anosike and Spencer were on the team together, Spencer would often be assigned to guard the opposing team's center and Nicky would guard perimeter. Spencer was not a great perimeter defender, and she had the size to play defense inside even if she was a perimeter offensive player.

If Tennessee started Ariel and Andraya, and the opposing PG was lighting them up, there's no reason that Holly can't switch defensive assignments and let Andraya be the primary defender for the opposing PG. Players don't need to play the same position on offense and defense.

It's just I've heard many great basketball minds like Pearl say that when you have to do that you're giving up something. Not saying it can't be done. A good transition offense can take advantage of that. And, why do that when Carter and Reynolds are better at the one and Ariel better at the two? Why not at least entertain that? Ariel will never be an effective point guard in the WNBA. She's too slow and has trouble bringing it up the floor against the press. When Carter and Reynolds became the point teams eventually just stopped pressing us because it didn't work anymore.

 

[Sandvol]

I second that.....It is sad to see you guys fighting each other.....Just agree to disagree and lets have fun on the board.....You both are great fans.:rock:

Listen bub, I've not been the one throwing insults and acting like a horse's ass. I enjoy debating on the board. Even if I don't really believe a certain position I'll take it just to have a lively debate. It's just all fun to me. Some take this way too seriously. I do have a life other than the Vols. But I do love the Vols.

 

[GameTime]

Listen bub, I've not been the one throwing insults and acting like a horse's ass. I enjoy debating on the board. Even if I don't really believe a certain position I'll take it just to have a lively debate. It's just all fun to me. Some take this way too seriously. I do have a life other than the Vols. But I do love the Vols.

Well OK bub...you say you like to argue/debate just for the sake of arguing/debating. Fine by me.

 

[Sandvol]

Well OK bub...you say you like to argue/debate just for the sake of arguing/debating. Fine by me.

I don't make it a point of calling anyone stupid or idiots even though I do get irritated if someone criticizes Pat. I don't think anyone has earned that right. It is just you seemed to indicate we were equally culpable but she was the one who started the insults. I didn't really retaliate but when others do that I like to see how much I can get them spun up. I guess its a personality flaw.

 

[GameTime]

I was trying to be a peacemaker, but you wanted none of it.....So much for blessed are the peacemaker......

I'm not taking sides...As I said, you both had good points.

Let's just move on.

 

[Sandvol]

I was trying to be a peacemaker, but you wanted none of it.....So much for blessed are the peacemaker......

I'm not taking sides...As I said, you both had good points.

Let's just move on.

I agree we both had good points. And, I appreciate you being a peacemaker. I just made my points without calling her an idiot.

P.S.-Why Jeff Bridges?

 

[Voluble2]

P.S.-Why Jeff Bridges?

Because the dude abides?

 

[Volfan2012]

To sum up this post UConn players are far more efficient in their play. The exact reason is a combination of player skills and coaching techniques. Coaches there may develop more skills in their players. I noticed that Stewart struggled most of her freshman year, but was able to work out her problems by end of season. She has went on to be an exceptional player. So you would have to say that the coaches there are really helping her develop.

You could also notice we started out the season a bad passing team and ended the season a bad passing team. We never improved on that skill. We started out the season turning the ball over and ended the season turning the ball over. We started the season with less assists than turnovers and ended the season the same way. We never improved.

 

[meekfan]

To sum up this post UConn players are far more efficient in their play. The exact reason is a combination of player skills and coaching techniques. Coaches there may develop more skills in their players. I noticed that Stewart struggled most of her freshman year, but was able to work out her problems by end of season. She has went on to be an exceptional player. So you would have to say that the coaches there are really helping her develop.

You could also notice we started out the season a bad passing team and ended the season a bad passing team. We never improved on that skill. We started out the season turning the ball over and ended the season turning the ball over. We started the season with less assists than turnovers and ended the season the same way. We never improved.

Great distillation of this entire thread

 

[Sandvol]

Great distillation of this entire thread

What was this thread about?