So who do you hire?

#253
#253
TMHoosierVol said:
On your last paragraph; I don't think it's a matter of they can not compete. Men or women choose to coach in women's basketball because of their desire to teach and coach the game of basketball without the side show of dealing with inflated egos that have to be kept in check.
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Yes, men and women can "choose" to coach on the women's side becasue they are regarded as viable candidates by ADs and fanbases. However, the issue is that "women" can't choose to coach on the men's side because they are not regarded as viable candidates. For example, if Coach K decided to retire tomorrow, could you imagine Duke announcing that they had hired Muffett McGraw to be the new head coach?
 
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#254
#254
UTFanatic said:
So Fulmer has to earn his money with this one. We all know Fulmer and Holly are friends and firing or asking Holly to resign is a huge decision for him. But, bigger yet, is who does he hire? The lady vol program is obviously steeped with history and needs a second "Summitt" like coach. So who is it that can legitimately bring the Lady Vols back to prominence? Who can make them competitive with Uconn, Baylor and ND? Who can make the SEC their stepping stone to the NCAA again?

I agree a change needs to be made, but if your Fulmer, who is the "magic bullet"?
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I believe that Kara Lawson would be the best choice to be a second "Summit" like coach. I know she doesn't have college experience but she does have coaching experience with the USA teams and most of all she seems to be the candidate (?) that values discipline. Lady Vols are in desparate need of some "fear" like back in the day. Kara was raised by a father who took no excuses. Everything was done as expected... a lot like Pat. I also think Kara has a high level of basketball intelligence. I would really like to see her get an opportunity. And I don't think she would hang around like Holly has if things didn't get better pretty quickly.
 
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#255
#255
madtownvol said:
Yes, men and women can "choose" to coach on the women's side becasue they are regarded as viable candidates by ADs and fanbases. However, the issue is that "women" can't choose to coach on the men's side because they are not regarded as viable candidates. For example, if Coach K decided to retire tomorrow, could you imagine Duke announcing that they had hired Muffett McGraw to be the new head coach?
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Okay. You're probably right with the example you offered up. Let me ask this question. When UT decided to move on from Buzz Peterson and before they offered the job to Pearl, What if they had offered the job to Pat. What do you think would have been her response and why.
 
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#259
#259
TMHoosierVol said:
Okay. You're probably right with the example you offered up. Let me ask this question. When UT decided to move on from Buzz Peterson and before they offered the job to Pearl, What if they had offered the job to Pat. What do you think would have been her response and why.
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But she wasn't.

This situation really is not a hypothetical "let's us first imagine a world where women coaches are offered jobs in men's programs and then envision that they turn down those opportunities because they only want to coach women players and then assume, therefore, that gender bias in hiring does not exist. See (in my imaginary world), women are self-selecting not to coach in men's program."

Fine, but we are not living in your imaginary world. The UTAD did not offer the job to Pat. Given her legendary status at UT, it is not completely beyond the realm of plausibility to think that it could have happened. In reality, though, you had a women who has named "the Naismith Basketball Coach of the Century" and who was beloved and idolized by the Tennessee fan base. Yet, she did no get the call nor was she ever mentioned as a viable option for any other top tier men's coaching job.

And there is only ONE Naismith Basketball Coach of the Century. CPS was the exception among the exceptional; the supersuperhuman among superhumans. No other women coach has that rarefied status and so if CPS could not have the OPTION to break the barrier, then think about the implications for women coaches who are merely very successful mortals.

If you don't get it, then you don't get it. A message board is not the right forum to explain glass ceiling limitations.
 
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#261
#261
Imagine for a moment that UT were to have an opening for a tenured full professor and department head in microbiology or Romance philology or geology or history.
Would you want the position to be filled based on whether the candidate earned their undergraduate or graduate degrees at UT?
Consider the folowing personal characteristics, and decide if they should have any bearing on the hiring decision:
- biological sex
- gender
- ethnicity
- race

As madtownvol stated so eloquently above, "If you don't get it, then you don't get it. A message board is not the right forum to explain glass ceiling limitations."
 
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#262
#262
TMHoosierVol said:
Okay. You're probably right with the example you offered up. Let me ask this question. When UT decided to move on from Buzz Peterson and before they offered the job to Pearl, What if they had offered the job to Pat. What do you think would have been her response and why.
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Simple
same as mine
"I don't coach boys"
 
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#263
#263
There are a lot of good coaches out there who seem to have the ability to recruit, motivate individual player personalities, help players grow as individuals, students, and athletes, blend disparate talents into a coherent team identity, and handle all the off-court responsibilities of a major program. There have been some interesting suggestions made from lower-division or smaller programs re: highly-successful coaches at that level. Now, a historic program such as Tennessee is a whole different animal, and coaching the most talented athletes requires knowing how and when to push buttons, rein in big egos without breaking spirit, make the game challenging and fun, and instill pride in reaching team and individual goals. And the higher the level, the more the coach is under the fan base microscope (as we can see from the entire WCBB world and other sports media beyond discussing the Lady Vols situation).

Caveat before posting this: Not suggesting that Fulmer should look (or have to look) at coaches who are untested at the highest levels or (in the words of other posters) make any new hire an "experiment." But seeing this piece about Molly Miller at D-2 Drury and her 113-16 four-year record (they are undefeated in D-2 and currently ranked #1) drove home the point that there are many young coaches who seem to have it together. In Miller's case, I'd think that floundering D-1 programs might want to give her a shot, although she seems happy to coach at her alma mater. Anyway, here's the university promo about her: Drury Athletics - Molly Miller - 2014-15 Women's Basketball Coaching Staff - Drury University
 
#266
#266
Good2bavol said:
Well first of all, and you may not realize it, but Geno would never get and offer from TN nor would he ever accept an offer from TN, so you don't need to be concerned with tongue-n-cheek comments about what he would do with the statue. I do not like Geno after being involved in his recruiting tactics I personally witnessed with players from my daughter's AAU team a number of years ago. I do not know anything about a check, certainly he could afford it and write it off, but he was the only guy slouching in his seat during Pat's memorial with his tie loosened, and had a look on his face that he did not want to be there. You can love him as much as you like.... I will allow it. (BTW.. that is also a tongue-n-cheek comment)
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Okay, we can agree to disagree. Maybe a tongue in cheek emoticon would come in handy.
 
#267
#267
Tennesseefan2019 said:
Quintin Hillsman has done an outstanding job as head coach of Syracuse and would be a strong replacement for Holly Warlick as Tennessee women's basketball coach

View attachment 196497

Quintin Hillsman's record at Syracuse

2006-2007 9-20
2007-2008 22-9 NCAA Tournament 1st round
2008-2009 17-15 WNIT 2nd round
2009-2010 25-11 WNIT Quarterfinals
2010-2011 25-10 WNIT Quarterfinals
2011-2012 22-15 WNIT Semifinals
2012-2013 24-8 NCAA Tournament 1st round
2013-2014 23-10 NCAA Tournament 2nd round
2014-2015 22-10 NCAA Tournament 2nd round
2015-2016 30-8 NCAA Tournament Runner Up
2016-2017 22-11 NCAA Tournament 2nd round
2017-2018 22-9 NCAA Tournament 1st round
2018-2019 22-7
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He's a very reasonable pick to me. Ambitious and he gets his players to give everything they have all the time.
 
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#268
#268
lvocd said:
Personally, I'd be fine with Tennessee hiring a man if they have done their very best to give a woman the opportunity first. I would PREFER the next coach to be a woman because, IMO, one of Pat Summitt's most important, most enduring legacies is all the effort she gave to empower young women. She would scoff at the idea of coaching men -- though she very well could have been successful doing so -- because, primarily, she didn't want anyone to disrespect women with the implication that coaching men is the REAL triumph, and that coaching women is just... a fun little thing to do while you hope to get something better.

Pat was a leader for women in the Title IX fight, and made it pretty much her life's work to empower, to enrich, to teach and encourage young girls to grow into strong WOMEN.

So, to me, it seems like giving one of the most coveted jobs in all of women's college athletics to a man if there's a strong woman out there to give it to, would kinda feel like a wasted opportunity to reward a strong woman -- something Pat would have very likely appreciated.

Now, don't get me wrong. Pat's ultimate goal was for her SON to take the reins one day, and, obviously, he's not a woman. But I fully believe that, now that he's out of the picture, that in her heart of hearts Pat would want a woman to continue to build on her legacy of Strong Women Helping Build Future Strong Women.

And with ALLLLLLL that said, I'm also fairly certain that Pat wouldn't be so stubborn about it that she would have an absolute moratorium on hiring a man. I think she'd be just fine with it and supportive of whomever he was -- as long as everyone had given women a fair shake first.

And you might be thinking, "Phil should hire the BEST CANDIDATE AVAILABLE, regardless of gender!" And I'd agree. But I'd also remind everyone that "best candidate available" is a highly subjective term, and, being that, makes it easy for some people to inadvertently allow personal biases into their thought processes. I say this because I personally know a couple of budding misogynists who would rather be poked in the eye with a sharp, flaming stick than admit that there could even remotely be a qualified female candidate out there.

My bottom line? Make a strong effort to hire a woman. But if a man rises so high above the female candidates in his list of qualifications, then hire the man. I'm just excited to see what ANYONE else will do next with the talent she/he will have available!
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The U is a state institution, so writing that job posting you suggest may be a bridge too far.
 
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#269
#269
panthers01 said:
I believe that Kara Lawson would be the best choice to be a second "Summit" like coach. I know she doesn't have college experience but she does have coaching experience with the USA teams and most of all she seems to be the candidate (?) that values discipline. Lady Vols are in desparate need of some "fear" like back in the day. Kara was raised by a father who took no excuses. Everything was done as expected... a lot like Pat. I also think Kara has a high level of basketball intelligence. I would really like to see her get an opportunity. And I don't think she would hang around like Holly has if things didn't get better pretty quickly.
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I agree, BUT ... she's spent almost 15 years in broadcasting and in the last few years on the Men's and women's side of professional basketball as well as WCBB. Has she expressed an interest in leaving that for coaching? She's coached once I thing in U 17 or 18 USA ball, but that is something you can fir into another career. Here's an interesting recent article about her. As A Player, Broadcaster And Now Coach, Kara Lawson Is A Leader Of Girls And Women

As to her role with the Wizards: Kara Lawson to be primary analyst for Wizards' games
 
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#271
#271
Has anyone considered how the players feel! Maybe they want to keep their Coach! They already chose her once and for upperclassmen each year they come back they chose her again!
 
#272
#272
Editing this paragraph to correct it: Some people have mentioned that Dawn wouldn't accept the job because she has the #1 class signed for next fall. If Dawn were to accept the TN job, the #1 incoming class players could be released from their letters of intent; but the University of South Carolina would not have to release them from their letters of intent.

I hope we get a proven winner. Dawn, Vic, Jeff - I'd like any of them. People have mentioned Kim but I think she should have done more with Sims and Griner.

One thing about it, we will see.
 
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#273
#273
WNBA coaches don't get a lot of love here. There are some very good ones, Stephanie White notwithstanding. And I suspect most are paid considerably less than UT is currently paying. Consider Nickie Collen, whom I mentioned in another thread: current WNBA Coach of the Year, her team exceeded everyone's expectations but their own. Only one year as a head coach, but considerable experience as an assistant coach. Her Mechanical Engineering degree suggests an analytical mind which will have no problem understanding various offensive and defensive schemes.
There are others as well. Curt Miller and Mike Thibault are excellent coaches, and Bill Laimbeer, a champion as a player and a coach.
 
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#274
#274
mcannon1 said:
Some people have mentioned that Dawn wouldn't accept the job because she has the #1 class signed for next fall. If Dawn were to accept the TN job, the #1 incoming class players would be released from their letters of intent and could come with her if they wanted.

I hope we get a proven winner. Dawn, Vic, Jeff - I'd like any of them. People have mentioned Kim but I think she should have done more with Sims and Griner.

One thing about it, we will see.
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Is this true. I believe that it was Jumper that said that the University has to agree to release the incoming freshmen and if the ladies still do not come they sit out and lose a year of eligibility?

I always thought that if the head coach changes, the incoming freshmen that have not played would be released to go elsewhere if they choose and would not sit out and would not lose a year of eligibility.
 
#275
#275
mike099 said:
Is this true. I believe that it was Jumper that said that the University has to agree to release the incoming freshmen and if the ladies still do not come they sit out and lose a year of eligibility?

I always thought that if the head coach changes, the incoming freshmen that have not played would be released to go elsewhere if they choose and would not sit out and would not lose a year of eligibility.
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I saw that on the NCAA site in their bylaws. I may have misread it or Miss quoted it but I think I caught it correctly
 
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