So -- Why does healthcare cost so damn much? (warning: novel-length post)

#278
#278
utvolpj said:
exactly. Want an extra football season then you can space it out. Want to get out as fast as you can then get a over a full semester of hours in the summer. All up to the student
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I changed majors and vouched for the extra football season
 
#279
#279
Let me get this right - If Denny's allowed smoking they'd be violating the rights of non-smokers?

For years, Mercedes didn't offer their cars with manual transmissions. I guess they were violating my rights since I wanted most of what an MB had but also wanted a manual transmission. Those SoBs that prefer auto trans were having their rights served while I was discriminated against.
 
#280
#280
tigervol9802 said:
So basically you are being critical of a process/system you really don't have experience with?
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No, one of the biggest reasons I take issue with the process, is the issues I had with it. I'm more of a give me work to do, and let me learn it in a practical use environment, like working on computers for instance. I can read a book all day, but I get more out of just doing it. A lot of people are like that, and classroom theory was just something that bored the piss out of me.
 
#281
#281
justingroves said:
The people smart enough to do it are the ones you're talking about feeling "held back" in regular college classes.
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All I'm saying is that there are probably too many pre-req's for students these days, and there should be a way to get rid of them and make the process better.
 
#282
#282
g8terh8ter_eric said:
There is only so much math and english that you can take, before you just don't care anymore. :)
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math? I could have done it all day back then. I took 6 math classes in HS. And English 101 is good for those who don't have strong writing skills when they come in. You'll need it further down the line

g8terh8ter_eric said:
They also had to take some BS classes, in between those classes that really matter for their majors, which makes the process more hectic. Why not throw out those bulk classes, for more classes that pertain to the major??
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some were "BS" but not many. You can tailor it so the electives do fit your major but many go for the easy A in History of Jazz instead of doing that
 
#283
#283
milohimself said:
This thread blew up a bit faster than I can respond to it, but consider that there has to be a line.

For instance, legislation was used to outlaw drinking and driving. Nobody in the us has the right to get drunk and drive a vehicle, that is an action that the us government has determined that you can't do, and I think it's a safe assumption here that is an example of where legislation determining what people are and are not allowed to do. Part of that legislation has had a direct impact on business owners, but it issomething that people determined needed to be taken care of through legislation and law for the good of everyone. Smoking in public and places of businesses is something that falls under that category for most of us.
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But you don't have a "right" to drive on government roads, so you have to deal with government rules of the road.

To me this is a lot different than government telling a man he can't smoke inside his own bar.
 
#285
#285
g8terh8ter_eric said:
No, one of the biggest reasons I take issue with the process, is the issues I had with it. I'm more of a give me work to do, and let me learn it in a practical use environment, like working on computers for instance. I can read a book all day, but I get more out of just doing it. A lot of people are like that, and classroom theory was just something that bored the piss out of me.
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There's a lot of classes for a lot of majors that consist of "hands on" work.

I sold radio advertising and was on the radio for 3 hours or so a week for a class. That's pretty hands on.

I had another class where we met to turn in projects once a week. The rest of the time you were interviewing, writing and trying to get your stuff published.

You do have to take some BS classes in college. However, it's not all boring classroom work.
 
#286
#286
nbakerld said:
But you don't have a "right" to drive on government roads, so you have to deal with government rules of the road.

To me this is a lot different than government telling a man he can't smoke inside his own bar.
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Correct - roads are public property.
 
#287
#287
utvolpj said:
And English 101 is good for those who don't have strong writing skills when they come in. You'll need it further down the line

some were "BS" but not many. You can tailor it so the electives do fit your major but many go for the easy A in History of Jazz instead of doing that
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English 101 helped me out because I took a year off after I graduated from HS and didn't even think about writing a paper.

You can damn near earn a minor if you use your electives right.
 
#288
#288
g8terh8ter_eric said:
All I'm saying is that there are probably too many pre-req's for students these days, and there should be a way to get rid of them and make the process better.
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One thing that pisses me off is you are required to take specific classes...just extensions of the same classes you took all growing up (Math, English, History, etc). I get it, but why not change things up a bit. I majored in Econ and it's my passion and it's terribly upsetting how many people don't know anything about it.

I went to 2 different universities, and 2 different high schools and none of the 4 required any knowledge of economics to graduate. Hell even Poli-Sci majors graduate knowing nothing about economics. Poli-Sci?!!
 
#289
#289
nbakerld said:
One thing that pisses me off is you are required to take specific classes...just extensions of the same classes you took all growing up (Math, English, History, etc). I get it, but why not change things up a bit. I majored in Econ and it's my passion and it's terribly upsetting how many people don't know anything about it.

I went to 2 different universities, and 2 different high schools and none of the 4 required any knowledge of economics to graduate. Hell even Poli-Sci majors graduate knowing nothing about economics. Poli-Sci?!!
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It is ridiculous.
 
#290
#290
volinbham said:
Let me get this right - If Denny's allowed smoking they'd be violating the rights of non-smokers?

For years, Mercedes didn't offer their cars with manual transmissions. I guess they were violating my rights since I wanted most of what an MB had but also wanted a manual transmission. Those SoBs that prefer auto trans were having their rights served while I was discriminated against.
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I wouldn't have any problem with forcing manufacturers to make all their cars available with stick shift... :)

nbakerld said:
But you don't have a "right" to drive on government roads, so you have to deal with government rules of the road.

To me this is a lot different than government telling a man he can't smoke inside his own bar.
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volinbham said:
Correct - roads are public property.
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I knew this was coming because roads are public property, so it's not a perfect comparison, but the same thing still applies. I think it's pretty safe to say that prior to this legislation passing, smoking likely happened at nearly every bar in the country. If I wanted to go have a drink with my friends on the town, I'd have to expose myself to second hand smoke. There's no way for the market to correct this, apparently, because they never did until the government told them they had to.

FTR, and I don't know how it's set up elsewhere, but in Portland, a private business can allow smoking on premises so long as there is a certain type of ventilation in place that's not shared with other tenants, and a few other bits, which I think is better than saying no smoking altogether.
 
#291
#291
nbakerld said:
One thing that pisses me off is you are required to take specific classes...just extensions of the same classes you took all growing up (Math, English, History, etc). I get it, but why not change things up a bit. I majored in Econ and it's my passion and it's terribly upsetting how many people don't know anything about it.

I went to 2 different universities, and 2 different high schools and none of the 4 required any knowledge of economics to graduate. Hell even Poli-Sci majors graduate knowing nothing about economics. Poli-Sci?!!
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meh I have an econ degree and still know nothing about it
 
#293
#293
milohimself said:
I knew this was coming because roads are public property, so it's not a perfect comparison, but the same thing still applies. I think it's pretty safe to say that prior to this legislation passing, smoking likely happened at nearly every bar in the country. If I wanted to go have a drink with my friends on the town, I'd have to expose myself to second hand smoke. There's no way for the market to correct this, apparently, because they never did until the government told them they had to.
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they also don't have to serve you anyway. So even if you wanted to go have a drink on the town the business has the right to turn you away. Only difference is that is taken away from them by this

milohimself said:
FTR, and I don't know how it's set up elsewhere, but in Portland, a private business can allow smoking on premises so long as there is a certain type of ventilation in place that's not shared with other tenants, and a few other bits, which I think is better than saying no smoking altogether.
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which basically means the added expense of adding a second wing onto your business if you wish to give people the freedom to smoke in your establishment. That's a lot of money and wrong
 
#294
#294
milohimself said:
I knew this was coming because roads are public property, so it's not a perfect comparison, but the same thing still applies. I think it's pretty safe to say that prior to this legislation passing, smoking likely happened at nearly every bar in the country. If I wanted to go have a drink with my friends on the town, I'd have to expose myself to second hand smoke. There's no way for the market to correct this, apparently, because they never did until the government told them they had to.

FTR, and I don't know how it's set up elsewhere, but in Portland, a private business can allow smoking on premises so long as there is a certain type of ventilation in place that's not shared with other tenants, and a few other bits, which I think is better than saying no smoking altogether.
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The market will correct it when there is a demand for bars where there is no smoking. If there is no demand for it, then there is nothing to correct. If there is a demand, someone will build it. If there is a demand, YOU should build it.
 
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#295
#295
utvolpj said:
meh I have an econ degree and still know nothing about it
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I know what you mean, but at least you know the basics. We can argue all day about Keynesian policy, but at least you know supply/demand, price floors and ceilings, diminishing returns, sunk cost, etc.

Props, btw. Where is your degree from?
 
#296
#296
nbakerld said:
I know what you mean, but at least you know the basics. We can argue all day about Keynesian policy, but at least you know supply/demand, price floors and ceilings, etc.

Props, btw. Where is your degree from?
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I went to UT. I actually enjoyed it once I got to the upper level classes because we had some really good teachers and some wacky ones (the 3rd world econ one comes to mind).
 
#297
#297
utvolpj said:
I went to UT. I actually enjoyed it once I got to the upper level classes because we had some really good teachers and some wacky ones (the 3rd world econ one comes to mind).
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I enjoyed it all. I had a very boring professor for upper-Macro, but other than that it was awesome. I had some great professors, though. One of mine had a Phd from MIT, a law degree from Harvard, and an incredible resume which included work for the Reagan administration on Weinberger's staff. Very intelligent guy.
 
#298
#298
g8terh8ter_eric said:
So, now paying for an education, somehow trumps people who do it a lot cheaper?? Knowledge is knowledge, no matter how you get it. There are plenty of people who go to the best institutions this country has to offer, yet they are still dumb as bricks in the common sense department. You get out what you put in, no matter where you go.
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It is absolutely, no two ways about it, senseless to argue that the interview and resume process is about gained knowledge. There are plenty with the knowledge, but to ignore pedigree in the job search process is naive and, frankly, absurd. You can pretend that there aren't pat rules that dominate the process, but you're absolutely fooling yourself. You can bang your head on the wall and complain that you know as much as those who've punched the right tickets, but it's just not going to change anything. There is a process and you work within it to maximize your opportunities or you spend the rest of your life fighting windmills.
 
#299
#299
The reason they require you to take math over econ is so I don't have to sit through an hour of Rise vs Run in Econ class (which I did). Some real dumbasses are in college. And I loved some History of Jazz. I would argue I took away just as much from History of Jazz as Econ, which wasn't much.

I guess I need to preface this with I'm only talking about the basic electives, of course everything is better in the upper tiers.
 
#300
#300
Weezy said:
The reason they require you to take math over econ is so I don't have to sit through an hour of Rise vs Run in Econ class (which I did). Some real dumbasses are in college. And I loved some History of Jazz. I would argue I took away just as much from History of Jazz as Econ, which wasn't much.
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An hour in econ about rise over run? That's absurd. And yes, math should be required.
 
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