So -- Why does healthcare cost so damn much? (warning: novel-length post)

[g8terh8ter_eric]

it's not about money it's about education. You're really hung up on this $$ thing

No, I'm hung up on the whole you pay more to learn more thing. That's a BS argument. I've worked a place where a graduate from an SEC school, couldn't hold a candle to a graduate from an OVC school. People get what they put in, and the sad part is a degree doesn't really tell you much about work ethic. Work ethic is certainly something that is lacking in a lot of businesses these days, mostly because of technology though. Technology is a great thing, but it's made a lot of people lazy.

 

[droski]

Formal education is a bit overrated. If you have a specific vocation like accounting then it's a fine system, but if you are going into psychology so that you can do sales or something like that, I think you might be better off with self-education (if you are serious about learning).

dont' disagree, but do you feel society is unfairly holding those nonconformist learners back? lots of millionares didnt' go to college.

 

[droski]

No, I'm hung up on the whole you pay more to learn more thing. That's a BS argument. I've worked a place where a graduate from an SEC school, couldn't hold a candle to a graduate from an OVC school. People get what they put in, and the sad part is a degree doesn't really tell you much about work ethic. Work ethic is certainly something that is lacking in a lot of businesses these days, mostly because of technology though. Technology is a great thing, but it's made a lot of people lazy.

you don't think it takes work ethic to get a degree from a major university? seriously? if it's so friggin easy why doesn't everyone do it?

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

So you are implying that we should allow doctors to learn off the bat by the OJT principle if they are more inclined to learn by being hands on?

Why not, most docs don't figure out if they are going to cut it until they actually get on the job. Some people can process the material just fine, but that doesn't mean they are going to put in the time and effort the job actually requires. If you have a hard working, quick learning doc, then let them spend more time learning in a real setting, and who knows they might surprise the hell out of you.

 

[utvolpj]

No, I'm hung up on the whole you pay more to learn more thing. That's a BS argument. I've worked a place where a graduate from an SEC school, couldn't hold a candle to a graduate from an OVC school. People get what they put in, and the sad part is a degree doesn't really tell you much about work ethic. Work ethic is certainly something that is lacking in a lot of businesses these days, mostly because of technology though. Technology is a great thing, but it's made a lot of people lazy.

no one has said the more you pay the smarter you are. And yes a degree does give you a general idea about work ethic and it's why most companies still use them as a baseline for employment

 

[kptvol]

So, creating debt because you went to school proves beyond a reasonable doubt that people learn more who spend more?? If that's true, then the same should be for our school systems, and if you spend more on the school system or pupil, they should learn more. Oh wait.

Perfect opportunity for one of those face palm photos.

 

[droski]

Why not, most docs don't figure out if they are going to cut it until they actually get on the job. Some people can process the material just fine, but that doesn't mean they are going to put in the time and effort the job actually requires. If you have a hard working, quick learning doc, then let them spend more time learning in a real setting, and who knows they might surprise the hell out of you.

i tell you what. i'll let them operate on you. i'll take the guy who graduated from ucla medical.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

you don't think it takes work ethic to get a degree from a major university? seriously? if it's so friggin easy why doesn't everyone do it?

There are people in colleges with impeccable work ethic, but there are a lot of people who just get by with minimal effort, and don't get what they really need out of the material they go to school for.

 

[tigervol9802]

No, I'm hung up on the whole you pay more to learn more thing. That's a BS argument. I've worked a place where a graduate from an SEC school, couldn't hold a candle to a graduate from an OVC school. People get what they put in, and the sad part is a degree doesn't really tell you much about work ethic. Work ethic is certainly something that is lacking in a lot of businesses these days, mostly because of technology though. Technology is a great thing, but it's made a lot of people lazy.

I really hate to burst your bubble, but all things considered if I am hiring someone from an SEC school versus an OVC school with an accounting degree right off the bat I am going with the SEC school 99 times out of 100 for various reasons.

Now, these people 10 years down the road may flip when they get to the marketplace and show their worth, but right out of school I know who has had better training and has had a harder road earning their degree. You have to base it on something comparative to hire.

 

[kptvol]

Why not, most docs don't figure out if they are going to cut it until they actually get on the job.

What? You don't think some sort of an idea is formed over four years of med school and then several more years of an extremely difficult residency in their future field?

 

[tigervol9802]

Why not, most docs don't figure out if they are going to cut it until they actually get on the job. Some people can process the material just fine, but that doesn't mean they are going to put in the time and effort the job actually requires. If you have a hard working, quick learning doc, then let them spend more time learning in a real setting, and who knows they might surprise the hell out of you.

For it's initial appearance in the political forum.......

 

[kptvol]

There are people in colleges with impeccable work ethic, but there are a lot of people who just get by with minimal effort, and don't get what they really need out of the material they go to school for.

And those people go to the cheaper schools for the courses that are too tough for them to pass at UT.

 

[droski]

There are people in colleges with impeccable work ethic, but there are a lot of people who just get by with minimal effort, and don't get what they really need out of the material they go to school for.

if you can get by with minimal effort from a top university than you are a bright mofo and probably worth getting hired based on potential. i think you underestimate the difficulty of higher education. community college classes aren't the same thing btw.

 

[tigervol9802]

And those people go to the cheaper schools for the courses that are too tough for them to pass at UT.

We call it Pelissippi.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

no one has said the more you pay the smarter you are. And yes a degree does give you a general idea about work ethic and it's why most companies still use them as a baseline for employment

It's been stated in here, that the longer the doc goes to school or studies, the more capable and educated they are. Did I misinterpret that, cause if I did, I apologize.

If I didn't interpret it wrong, my whole problem with the longer they go the more they learn argument, is the simple fact that there are people that can learn the material and apply it a lot faster than others, yet are relegated to doing the same thing the other people who take longer do. How is that fair for the market, especially if the brighter people are held back by red tape??

 

[kptvol]

No, I'm hung up on the whole you pay more to learn more thing.

If the better school costs more, then yes.

 

[droski]

the simple fact that there are people that can learn the material and apply it a lot faster than others, yet are relegated to doing the same thing the other people who take longer do. How is that fair for the market, especially if the brighter people are held back by red tape??

once again if these people are so smart why can't they simply read the textbooks, not go to class, and still get the same degree the dumb people are getting?

 

[kptvol]

If I didn't interpret it wrong, my whole problem with the longer they go the more they learn argument, is the simple fact that there are people that can learn the material and apply it a lot faster than others, yet are relegated to doing the same thing the other people who take longer do. How is that fair for the market, especially if the brighter people are held back by red tape??

It's pretty rare there is someone that is wanting things to speed up. Things aren't slowed down for the dumbest. Those people are weeded out.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

I got a feeling that I'm arguing with a bunch of college grads from larger schools in here, and that's why I'm getting the responses I am. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to have a discussion on what I believe and see. Hopefully people don't take this stuff personally.

 

[utvolpj]

It's been stated in here, that the longer the doc goes to school or studies, the more capable and educated they are. Did I misinterpret that, cause if I did, I apologize.

If I didn't interpret it wrong, my whole problem with the longer they go the more they learn argument, is the simple fact that there are people that can learn the material and apply it a lot faster than others, yet are relegated to doing the same thing the other people who take longer do. How is that fair for the market, especially if the brighter people are held back by red tape??

yes but that has nothing to do with money. Drop the price tag and consider the actual learning. If you are able to get into med school then it's a safe bet you have some smarts. If you are not able to keep up after that then you won't pass and be able to cut people open. Pretty simple and it doesn't hold anyone back. In fact I can't ever remember a time I felt held back by a dumber person in undergrad

 

[kptvol]

I got a feeling that I'm arguing with a bunch of college grads from larger schools in here

I think that's pretty obvious, as the situation on the other side.

 

[n_huffhines]

dont' disagree, but do you feel society is unfairly holding those nonconformist learners back? lots of millionares didnt' go to college.

They're not really holding back the entrepreneurs, but pretty certain it hurts talented people looking for work.

 

[g8terh8ter_eric]

yes but that has nothing to do with money. Drop the price tag and consider the actual learning. If you are able to get into med school then it's a safe bet you have some smarts. If you are not able to keep up after that then you won't pass and be able to cut people open. Pretty simple and it doesn't hold anyone back. In fact I can't ever remember a time I felt held back by a dumber person in undergrad

Would you say that you may have benefited from speeding up certain studies you were involved in, because you just "got" the material??

 

[droski]

I got a feeling that I'm arguing with a bunch of college grads from larger schools in here, and that's why I'm getting the responses I am. I'm not trying to ruffle feathers, just trying to have a discussion on what I believe and see. Hopefully people don't take this stuff personally.

so your opinion is there are a lot of really smart people who want to learn more quickly than others and those same said people for some reason can get into and graduate from a major university? do you realize the logic problems with this argument?

 

[kptvol]

Would you say that you may have benefited from speeding up certain studies you were involved in, because you just "got" the material??

How is that a problem when you can take as many hours as you want? If your courses are easy for you, go ahead and load up that semester and then you'll be able to graduate early.