Socialism Fails Everytime ...

#901
#901
AM64 said:
Then why not define simply where motivation or incentive to improve or progress become the sin of greed? I don't think you can for any number of reasons. Simple example: times are good and you are making well above the normal expected returns on investment of labor, materials, fuel, etc to produce your product. Let's say you "hoard" some of that "excessive" profit, and a few years later that excess becomes the thing that keeps the company going and workers employed. Perhaps something happened that affected the supply and therefore cost of fuel, and you used used the saved income to keep prices in line and thereby grew market share. Greedy or smart business?
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Smart business.
 
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#903
#903
AM64 said:
But Henry Ford was a very wealthy man, and earned well more than others and well more than what he "needed". Was his desire to become a larger producer and sell more cars while becoming "excessively" wealthy motivation and reward or greed and privilege? More importantly who is fit to judge?
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Could have been either and more than likely some of both. I don't have the facts to know. I'm sure those who were familiar with him were in a position to make a better judgement.....which would always be the case.

Who was in a position to judge whether or not cigarette companies were being greedy as they tried to deny their harmful affects?

The answer to that changed over time as more information came to light.
 
#907
#907
Vol8188 said:
You didn’t answer. Are some billionaires not greedy?
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I did answer. EVERYBODY (which includes all billionaires) is on the continuum.

People are not either 100% greedy or 0% greedy. All people are somewhere in-between.
It's like saying people are either 100% intelligent or 0% intelligent.
It's like saying people are either 100% attractive or 0% attractive.
It's like saying people are either 100% liars or 0% liars.
It's like saying people are either 100% racists or 0% racists.

Everyone is on each of those continuums somewhere.
No one is at 100% or 0% on a single one of them.
 
#909
#909
luthervol said:
I did answer. EVERYBODY (which includes all billionaires) is on the continuum.

People are not either 100% greedy or 0% greedy. All people are somewhere in-between.
It's like saying people are either 100% intelligent or 0% intelligent.
It's like saying people are either 100% attractive or 0% attractive.
It's like saying people are either 100% liars or 0% liars.
It's like saying people are either 100% racists or 0% racists.

Everyone is on each of those continuums somewhere.
No one is at 100% or 0% on a single one of them.
Click to expand...
Alabama says hi!. You can choose what you want to believe.
 
#911
#911
luthervol said:
I did answer. EVERYBODY (which includes all billionaires) is on the continuum.

People are not either 100% greedy or 0% greedy. All people are somewhere in-between.
It's like saying people are either 100% intelligent or 0% intelligent.
It's like saying people are either 100% attractive or 0% attractive.
It's like saying people are either 100% liars or 0% liars.
It's like saying people are either 100% racists or 0% racists.

Everyone is on each of those continuums somewhere.
No one is at 100% or 0% on a single one of them.
Click to expand...

So if everyone is greedy just to varying degrees and greed drives people (just to varying degrees), then you have to accept that it’s the greed of others that has driven them to create your privileged lifestyle.
 
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#913
#913
Vol8188 said:
So if everyone is greedy just to varying degrees and greed drives people (just to varying degrees), then you have to accept that it’s the greed of others that has driven them to create your privileged lifestyle.
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Not in the least.
People are driven by many things other than greed. In fact, there have probably been more negative than positive consequences resulting from actions motivated through greed.
 
#915
#915
luthervol said:
Not in the least.
People are driven by many things other than greed. In fact, there have probably been more negative than positive consequences resulting from actions motivated through greed.
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Lol you can’t say “not in the least” while admitting it’s at least one of the things that drive people
 
#916
#916
Vol8188 said:
Lol you can’t say “not in the least” while admitting it’s at least one of the things that drive people
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Sure. I've always admitted it is a negative motivator. I can also admit there have been some societal benefits resulting from actions based on greed.
 
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#917
#917
luthervol said:
Sure. I've always admitted it is a negative motivator. I can also admit there have been some societal benefits resulting from actions based on greed.
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Lol you just said no in the least?

So now you admit that at least some of the privileges you enjoy in life are the result of the greed of others
 
#918
#918
Vol8188 said:
Lol you just said no in the least?

So now you admit that at least some of the privileges you enjoy in life are the result of the greed of others
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What to you mean "now I admit"?
I've never, ever, not once, denied that.
Once again you guys are projecting things into my position that are simply baseless and false.

.......Just reread your post and I think I see where we are at odds.
I agree that some of the privileges I enjoy are the result of actions taken by others through greed.
I do not agree that the privileges I enjoy are the result of actions taken by others through greed.
I also maintain that most of the negative things our society is faced with are the results of decisions based on greed.
Whereas, only a few of the negative things our society is faced with are the results of decisions based on more altruistic things.
 
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#919
#919
luthervol said:
What to you mean "now I admit"?
I've never, ever, not once, denied that.
Once again you guys are projecting things into my position that are simply baseless and false.

.......Just reread your post and I think I see where we are at odds.
I agree that some of the privileges I enjoy are the result of actions taken by others through greed.
I do not agree that the privileges I enjoy are the result of actions taken by others through greed.
I also maintain that most of the negative things our society is faced with are the results of decisions based on greed.
Whereas, only a few of the negative things our society is faced with are the results of decisions based on more altruistic things.
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luthervol said:
By that definition, it is always bad.
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You claimed it’s on a spectrum. If so, then it can’t always be bad. There has to be net positives that occur from the greed of others, which you later admit to.

luthervol said:
Wrong. That answer isn't greedy in the least.
Think of it more this way.
Greed is enriching one's self at the known detriment to others.
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Here you completely redefined greed to only occurring when an action harms others. Yet now it’s on a continuum? Seems like two different standards given that an action can be greedy without harming others (trying to sell as many cars as possible so you can get a yacht for example).

Vol8188 said:
The greed of others is the reason you live the privileged life you do. Yes, it’s very beneficial
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luthervol said:
I completely disagree.
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This is you doing the thing you said above that you “never, ever, not once did”
 
#920
#920
luthervol said:
I agree that some of the privileges I enjoy are the result of actions taken by others through greed.
I do not agree that the privileges I enjoy are the result of actions taken by others through greed.
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Idk why I took the time to show you contradicting yourself by bumping old posts. Hell you contradict yourself here in back to back sentences.

“I agree, that some of the privileges I enjoy” are the result of greed
“I do not agree that the privileges I enjoy” are the result of greed.

That’s an impressive level, even for you
 
#921
#921
Vol8188 said:
You claimed it’s on a spectrum. If so, then it can’t always be bad. There has to be net positives that occur from the greed of others, which you later admit to.



Here you completely redefined greed to only occurring when an action harms others. Yet now it’s on a continuum? Seems like two different standards given that an action can be greedy without harming others (trying to sell as many cars as possible so you can get a yacht for example).





This is you doing the thing you said above that you “never, ever, not once did”
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I clarified that.
You said...The greed of others is the reason you live the privileged life you do. Yes, it’s very beneficial
I said...I completely disagree. .......I'll stand by that response to your statement.

The greed of others is absolutely not the reason I live a privileged life.

Had you said "the greed of others is partially responsible for the privileged life you live."
I would have said "absolutely, and even more responsible for many of the negatives in our society"

Greed is always bad. It being on a continuum has nothing to do with that. Positives resulting from actions based on greed in no way changes the fact that it is a negative motivator.
Racism is always bad, it is on a continuum, and I'm sure there have been societal benefits that have come from people acting through racism.
I don't get what point you are attempting to make.
 
#922
#922
Vol8188 said:
Idk why I took the time to show you contradicting yourself by bumping old posts. Hell you contradict yourself here in back to back sentences.

“I agree, that some of the privileges I enjoy” are the result of greed
“I do not agree that the privileges I enjoy” are the result of greed.

That’s an impressive level, even for you
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I just said it again. Maybe you'll understand this time.
 
#923
#923
McDad said:
Those of you arguing with Luther know what a fool's errand that is. But I would like to lob a thought into the fray.

If greed exists, and If it can be evil or virtuous depending on intent, and if that intent is judged by those who develop the continuum, then would we not have to acknowledge greed exists in all economic and government systems. If true, do you want greed which improves the quality of life of others through voluntary behaviors, or do you want greed which improves the quality of life of others through forced behaviors?
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The pragmatist perspective.
 
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