Socialism vs Capitalism

[AM64]

Socialism just puts more power into fewer hands. hardly sounds ideal to me, and it never works out for the people, how could it?

And communism just goes that one further step and really nails it down. But in the end both socialism and especially communism absolutely ensure that some people are more equal than others.

 

[theFallGuy]

Socialism is a leftist philosophy. Fascism is a far-right wing philosophy. There has long been talk of a "third way"--a hybrid of socialism and capitalism, which is what, effectively, as lot of European countries have, or close to it. The notion that business and the free-market will promote the well-being of all Americans has been proved to be a massive fallacy. The vast majority of business owners/executives want to pay workers as little as possible so they can stuff as much money as possible into their own bank accounts. Greed is the defining motif of capitalism--and it involves screwing most of the people who do most of the work. That is why unions were needed and created in the first place.

Here’s Why It’s Idiotic To Conflate Fascism With Right Wing Ideology

 

[AM64]

Here’s Why It’s Idiotic To Conflate Fascism With Right Wing Ideology

"Economically, fascism advocates control of business and labor, not ownership of it as communism advocates. In fact, Mussolini called his system the 'Corporate State.' Even the term 'totalitarianism' derives from Mussolini’s concept of the preeminence of the 'total state.'"

I spent my college years as far away from governing ideologies and philosophies as possible, so my thoughts on the subject may be somewhat bent by enlightened liberal standards. However, I've never been able to reconcile a relationship between fascism and capitalism based on independent ownership and competition. There's simply no way to have fascism without state control, and state control is pretty much defined by socialism and the more extreme form ... communism.

In my mind the difference between fascism and totalitarianism is the spelling. Look for the more modern examples of totalitarianism and those countries are generally communist or hybrid socialistic variants where state permitted "capitalistic" companies are allowed only to prevent collapse (as in China).

 

[Vol737]

Confiscatory tax policy? American taxes as a percentage of GDP are the 4th lowest of the 34 OECD countries. So this notion that we are taxed oppressively is the usual right-wing nonsense from neanderthals who think we can have a cohesive, well-functioning country without taxes.

I should have been clearer: I'm mostly fine with tax rates of today. We need to downsize our tax code and go to few marginal tax rates and remove most exemptions and write offs. The remark on confiscatory tax policy was mostly directed toward the fact that those countries that are more socialist have a very confiscatory tax policy. As we pile on social program after social program, there's a huge push from the left to create that confiscatory policy here.

Hyper-regulation? More nonsense. Right-wingers complain about taxes and regulation--that is their schtick; it's what they've talked about in every election for the last 50 years. Regulations serve important purposes. We suffered through a 7-year recession because of a lack of regulation in the financial industry, so spare us the claptrap about regulations.

Don't disagree. And where did that come from? Bill Clinton signed the bill that removed Glass/Steagal in 1998 and did away with important financial regulations. Yet in another post you blame the financial crisis on W! Entirely wrong if you would take time to study the history of how it began. Shows your lack of understanding on how things really happen. I never said all regulation is bad. But lets go with your premise that seems to be all regulations are good:

Warning Signs: The EPA Thinks You're Stupid

Big business does not like regulation because it interferes--ever so slightly--with the ability of corporate executives to stuff big bonuses in their bank accounts. Notice how rich businessmen, running behemoth companies, complain about regulation. If our regulations were really onerous, their companies/industries wouldn't be so successful in the first place. And notice how we never hear anything specific about a regulation hurting the economy--because they don't. Regulations and taxes are just rote blather from conservatives.

I'm sure you're correct again:
https://www.forbes.com/sites/realsp...gering-costs-of-its-regulations/#72901e0b4bc2

Clearly you've never tried to run a business and comply with regulatory standards. It's expensive and, yes,
many of them are outright stupid. Go set up a business and let me know the dollar amount you spend in compliance with local, state and federal regs. Then break them down into categories from necessary to the totally absurd and let me know what you come up with.
I'll save you the suspense. Most are stupid beyond belief.

As for social programs, they support the poor and the elderly--yes, how terrible! I want you, when you get old, if you are not old now, to pay for all your health care treatment yourself--no Medicare. Enjoy. Without our social programs, the country would be very unstable--a fact lost on conservatives. If right-wingers had their way, America would turn into a Latin American country where the wealthy live in walled compounds with armed guards to keep the angry masses at bay. In short, conservatives are always complaining about nothing, really. It's like conservatives like to burble about the government encroaching on their "freedoms"--except that they can't ever identify what those encroachments are, because they don't exist. Taxes and regulations are what separate well-functioning, advanced societies from chaotic, badly functioning countries. Fact. But of course, a lot of conservatives just want to live in the woods in rural America, in their $20K houses with four cars in the front yard, and not have to deal with society. Tough luck.

You make a lot of assumptions.
I'm all for a solid, solvent Social Security program.
Same for Medicare because we all get old, but there isn't enough tax revenue in the world that will sustain all the other social programs that either overlap and/or have become so bloated and inefficient they will collapse one way or another. The rest of your retorts in bold show your same tired and ignorant narrative. Kind of surprising coming from someone that boasts how much of an elite thinker they are.

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

For me it's capitalism, as enhanced by socialism. It seems like adopting some socialism makes capitalism work better, and I'm in favor of those -- healthcare and wealth tax.

.

Why is a wealth tax a good thing?

 

[Vol8188]

Why is a wealth tax a good thing?

Wealth is bad. Poverty good. Tax wealth. Encourage poverty.

Viva la socialism!!!!

 

[Orange_Crush]

You make a lot of assumptions.
I'm all for a solid, solvent Social Security program.
Same for Medicare because we all get old, but there isn't enough tax revenue in the world that will sustain all the other social programs that either overlap and/or have become so bloated and inefficient they will collapse one way or another. The rest of your retorts in bold show your same tired and ignorant narrative. Kind of surprising coming from someone that boasts how much of an elite thinker they are.

Five days old and no response, eh?

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

The tricky thing about greed is that basically everyone is driven by it in some way. The best solution is to to make incentives that attract greed/ambition to align with societal good.

It's not tricky. You even say so yourself in your second sentence. It's called competition. It got us to the moon from scratch in less than 10 years. Giving people free stuff does not foster ambition.

Just another example that we have no leaders in DC and have had none for a long time. We have politicians that only care about their next election. Good leadership is not that hard.

You want a car that will get an equivalent of 150 mpg and produce zero emissions that the average consumer can afford? CHALLENGE people to do it. Offer a billion dollar prize to the winner.

Or you could just force people to abide by your agenda thru force of law. Much easier and doesn't require any risk.

 

[jmacvols1]

 

[jvol1]

Why is a wealth tax a good thing?

Because it frees up more money among workers to spend in the market thus generating more profits and economic activity. For whatever reason there tends to be great concentration of wealth as the winners continue to win, like bezos, musk, or gates, who end up with more than anyone could possibly use or need. That wealth tends to just stay tied up in financial instruments, instead of being used productively. So the economy at large starts to benefit from a wealth tax after there has been sufficient capital formation. Basically, see Capitalism in the 21st century by thomas picketty.

Most proposals for a wealth tax are modest starting at .5% at $500k and peaking at 2.5% at 2.5m. Many working class folks could live completely tax free. For me, I'd end up paying more than I am currently, depending on what my capital gains are, but not by much.

 

[McDad]

Because it frees up more money among workers to spend in the market thus generating more profits and economic activity. For whatever reason there tends to be great concentration of wealth as the winners continue to win, like bezos, musk, or gates, who end up with more than anyone could possibly use or need. That wealth tends to just stay tied up in financial instruments, instead of being used productively. So the economy at large starts to benefit from a wealth tax after there has been sufficient capital formation. Basically, see Capitalism in the 21st century by thomas picketty.

Most proposals for a wealth tax are modest starting at .5% at $500k and peaking at 2.5% at 2.5m. Many working class folks could live completely tax free. For me, I'd end up paying more than I am currently, depending on what my capital gains are, but not by much.

I hope this was supposed to be in blue font.

 

[Sea Ray]

A wealth tax is a horrible concept and we ought not get started going down that road. Do you really want the gov't to say that they have a right to a certain portion of what you already own?

I also think it's unconstitutional. The 5th Amendment IMO would preclude them from doing this 'cause it says:

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

If they're taxing your wealth, they are taking your private property. They have no right to any percentage of my $500,000 house that I've slaved to buy and pay off.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Because it frees up more money among workers to spend in the market thus generating more profits and economic activity. For whatever reason there tends to be great concentration of wealth as the winners continue to win, like bezos, musk, or gates, who end up with more than anyone could possibly use or need. That wealth tends to just stay tied up in financial instruments, instead of being used productively. So the economy at large starts to benefit from a wealth tax after there has been sufficient capital formation. Basically, see Capitalism in the 21st century by thomas picketty.

Most proposals for a wealth tax are modest starting at .5% at $500k and peaking at 2.5% at 2.5m. Many working class folks could live completely tax free. For me, I'd end up paying more than I am currently, depending on what my capital gains are, but not by much.

1) freed up money among workers goes into the market? What percentage of that money goes to the illicit drug trade and winds up across the boarders?
2) How do you determine the 2nd bolded statement? What qualifies you to make that statement?

 

[Sea Ray]

Be careful when you start a wealth tax. There's nothing to limit it to the Bill Gates of the country. It could easily be spread to you. If it's OK to tax him, someone will say it's OK to tax you too. It can be a slippery slope

 

[MG1968]

Because it frees up more money among workers to spend in the market thus generating more profits and economic activity. For whatever reason there tends to be great concentration of wealth as the winners continue to win, like bezos, musk, or gates, who end up with more than anyone could possibly use or need. That wealth tends to just stay tied up in financial instruments, instead of being used productively. So the economy at large starts to benefit from a wealth tax after there has been sufficient capital formation. Basically, see Capitalism in the 21st century by thomas picketty.

Most proposals for a wealth tax are modest starting at .5% at $500k and peaking at 2.5% at 2.5m. Many working class folks could live completely tax free. For me, I'd end up paying more than I am currently, depending on what my capital gains are, but not by much.

Why should working class people not pay taxes? What’s fair (there’s that word, again) about a system that places the entire burden on a minority?

 

[n_huffhines]

Because it frees up more money among workers to spend in the market thus generating more profits and economic activity. For whatever reason there tends to be great concentration of wealth as the winners continue to win, like bezos, musk, or gates, who end up with more than anyone could possibly use or need. That wealth tends to just stay tied up in financial instruments, instead of being used productively. So the economy at large starts to benefit from a wealth tax after there has been sufficient capital formation. Basically, see Capitalism in the 21st century by thomas picketty.

Most proposals for a wealth tax are modest starting at .5% at $500k and peaking at 2.5% at 2.5m. Many working class folks could live completely tax free. For me, I'd end up paying more than I am currently, depending on what my capital gains are, but not by much.

Bro, do you know how much easier and better Bezos' company has made my life? I can buy a very affordable product with 10k ratings at 4.5 stars, know it's good, and have it arrive at my door tomorrow so I can take my kids to the park instead of the store. Why should I care if he's taxed more? I'm not going to see any of that money.

Leslie's Pool Supply tried get me to pay them $30 to install wings on my vacuum. I got them on Amazon for $7 with new shoes included. They're marking it up like 400% for 1 minute of labor. The brick and mortar store making peanuts in comparison tries to take advantage of me as much as anybody. Amazon makes that much more $ because they make consumers' lives that much better.

 

[turbovol]

Denmark is the most egalitarian country in the world---and it's a social-democratic country that "gives people things"--such as free education
and health care. Same with Sweden and Norway. Successful countries, all. We are the only one of 37 OECD countries that does not have nationalized health care. Everyone else in the world has got it wrong and we've got it right? Please. There are many millions of Americans who have no health care insurance at all.

Don't tell people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and then pay them a poverty-level wage that makes getting ahead impossible. Capitalism is a good thing; vulture capitalism is a bad thing. We've had a lot of vulture capitalism in the U.S. since the late 1980s.

 

[n_huffhines]

Denmark is the most egalitarian country in the world---and it's a social-democratic country that "gives people things"--such as free education
and health care. Same with Sweden and Norway. Successful countries, all. We are the only one of 37 OECD countries that does not have nationalized health care. Everyone else in the world has got it wrong and we've got it right? Please. There are many millions of Americans who have no health care insurance at all.

Don't tell people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and then pay them a poverty-level wage that makes getting ahead impossible. Capitalism is a good thing; vulture capitalism is a bad thing. We've had a lot of vulture capitalism in the U.S. since the late 1980s.

We do have free education and health care, LOL.

This is about socialism vs. capitalism, and socialism is specifically government controlling the means of production. Socialism doesn't really mean free health care and free education. But since we're talking about it, you can't compare us to Denmark. It's got the population of Tennessee. You can't replicate their success with our massive population and government bloat.

 

[MG1968]

Denmark is the most egalitarian country in the world---and it's a social-democratic country that "gives people things"--such as free education
and health care. Same with Sweden and Norway. Successful countries, all. We are the only one of 37 OECD countries that does not have nationalized health care. Everyone else in the world has got it wrong and we've got it right? Please. There are many millions of Americans who have no health care insurance at all.

Don't tell people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and then pay them a poverty-level wage that makes getting ahead impossible. Capitalism is a good thing; vulture capitalism is a bad thing. We've had a lot of vulture capitalism in the U.S. since the late 1980s.

Don’t want a poverty level wage? don’t have a poverty level skill set and work ethic.

 

[whodeycin85]

Flat tax and a luxury tax.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Denmark is the most egalitarian country in the world---and it's a social-democratic country that "gives people things"--such as free education
and health care. Same with Sweden and Norway. Successful countries, all. We are the only one of 37 OECD countries that does not have nationalized health care. Everyone else in the world has got it wrong and we've got it right? Please. There are many millions of Americans who have no health care insurance at all.

Don't tell people to pull themselves up by their bootstraps and then pay them a poverty-level wage that makes getting ahead impossible. Capitalism is a good thing; vulture capitalism is a bad thing. We've had a lot of vulture capitalism in the U.S. since the late 1980s.

Please move to wherever it is you want to model us by and then tell us how you love it. GTFO.

 

[82_VOL_83]

We do have free education and health care, LOL.

This is about socialism vs. capitalism, and socialism is specifically government controlling the means of production. Socialism doesn't really mean free health care and free education. But since we're talking about it, you can't compare us to Denmark. It's got the population of Tennessee. You can't replicate their success with our massive population and government bloat.

22 million in the 3 countries named. 2023 count.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Don’t want a poverty level wage? don’t have a poverty level skill set and work ethic.

Hey, flipping burgers or serving beer is a very highly prized skill set.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Flat tax and a luxury tax.

 

[Orangeburst]

Be careful when you start a wealth tax. There's nothing to limit it to the Bill Gates of the country. It could easily be spread to you. If it's OK to tax him, someone will say it's OK to tax you too. It can be a slippery slope

We got a pinky promise that those new IRS agents wouldnt audit those less than 400K.