Some of these players owe Butch Jones some effort.

[Joe Vols]

If Butch gets this entire team to come out and fight against Vandy, then he is little short of a miracle worker. If I were ***** I would have some guys doing nothing but running this entire week. Some of these guys still owe Butch some physical effort from Saturday. Some of those players shouldn't be allowed onto the field to practice until they have repaid Butch for the effort they owed him from Saturday with interest.
As a fan of UT it was painful to watch. As a fan of the game of football it was even worse. The lack of effort some of our players put forth was striking. It was astonishing that division 1 athletes, or coaches would accept such mediocre effort from so many. The most blaring aspect of the game for me was special teams, coverage teams specifically, and then the defense. The offense played the best as a unit, although it wasn't without its fair share of loafers. There were people loafing down field. People dodging blocks. Players loafing and getting steam rolled by Auburn players who were going full speed. It was like watching a boxing match were only one guy is throwing any punches.
We aren't as slow as everyone is saying. We have a lot of players who simply loaf. We have a lot of players who simply don't fight off a block at all. We have a lot if players taking poor angles to the ball. We have a lot of blockers who AVOID contact of any kind getting playing time. How can this happen?
The players who are giving effort are working their tales off, and if I were them I would have a serious heart to heart with the guys who are going through the motions. Our defensive ends played terrible. I know Smith had one great play, but they lost 70% of their battles. Our corners lost 95% of their battles. Our linebackers, even AJ lost 50%. Our defensive linemen lost 70% of theirs.
Our coverage teams were a joke.
To me the most disappointing thing about Saturday was the lack of effort from many of our guys. From a competitive standpoint, I just don't understand how a guy can accept getting his tail whipped play after play and not fight back.
I don't think you can coach fight in a guy, you have to recruit it.

 

[HuntlandVolinColo]

If Butch gets this entire team to come out and fight against Vandy, then he is little short of a miracle worker. If I were ***** I would have some guys doing nothing but running this entire week. Some of these guys still owe Butch some physical effort from Saturday. Some of those players shouldn't be allowed onto the field to practice until they have repaid Butch for the effort they owed him from Saturday with interest.
As a fan of UT it was painful to watch. As a fan of the game of football it was even worse. The lack of effort some of our players put forth was striking. It was astonishing that division 1 athletes, or coaches would accept such mediocre effort from so many. The most blaring aspect of the game for me was special teams, coverage teams specifically, and then the defense. The offense played the best as a unit, although it wasn't without its fair share of loafers. There were people loafing down field. People dodging blocks. Players loafing and getting steam rolled by Auburn players who were going full speed. It was like watching a boxing match were only one guy is throwing any punches.
We aren't as slow as everyone is saying. We have a lot of players who simply loaf. We have a lot of players who simply don't fight off a block at all. We have a lot if players taking poor angles to the ball. We have a lot of blockers who AVOID contact of any kind getting playing time. How can this happen?
The players who are giving effort are working their tales off, and if I were them I would have a serious heart to heart with the guys who are going through the motions. Our defensive ends played terrible. I know Smith had one great play, but they lost 70% of their battles. Our corners lost 95% of their battles. Our linebackers, even AJ lost 50%. Our defensive linemen lost 70% of theirs.
Our coverage teams were a joke.
To me the most disappointing thing about Saturday was the lack of effort from many of our guys. From a competitive standpoint, I just don't understand how a guy can accept getting his tail whipped play after play and not fight back.
I don't think you can coach fight in a guy, you have to recruit it.

Only partially true. Generals get troops to follow them in battle, many times facing certain death. Fight is motivated into players and it is instinctive.

 

[ItsAllVols]

Maybe the 21 points on special teams pretty much tells the story when injuries and lack of depth and speed, playing freshman that are hitting the wall. Hopefully the week off will help the younger players get there legs back, the schedule is killing the mojo Butch has going on. The starters are playing too many snaps on special teams, if you look at the big boys hardly ever do you see starters playing any special teams snaps let alone 70 to 80 pays a games with the schedule we have, its just the situation we are in with the turn over of coaches. If anything we need Butch here for 10 years to get the food chain filled up.

 

[Tenacguy50]

This ^

 

[cpavol]

Maybe the 21 points on special teams pretty much tells the story when injuries and lack of depth and speed, playing freshman that are hitting the wall. Hopefully the week off will help the younger players get there legs back, the schedule is killing the mojo Butch has going on. The starters are playing too many snaps on special teams, if you look at the big boys hardly ever do you see starters playing any special teams snaps let alone 70 to 80 pays a games with the schedule we have, its just the situation we are in with the turn over of coaches. If anything we need Butch here for 10 years to get the food chain filled up.

The defensive line was on the field less than 8 minutes in the first half. The effort problem begins with them. I don't care how much faster Auburn was--the chasms they had to run through made the speed difference insignificant.

 

[SGMVols]

Butch Jones owes his players a gameplan that actually gives them a chance to compete.

 

[titansvolsfaninga]

Butch Jones owes his players a gameplan that actually gives them a chance to compete.

Oh wow...you've been huffing paint today I see.

 

[LaagerVol]

The defensive line was on the field less than 8 minutes in the first half. The effort problem begins with them. I don't care how much faster Auburn was--the chasms they had to run through made the speed difference insignificant.

This ^^^^^^^^

You know when we got push on the DL??? When Greg Clark and Danny O'brien were in the game. And O'brien was loafing on STs.

I don't like to criticize players too much for their physical shortcomings but to me they are fair game if they are giving little effort. That is one thing I can't overlook as a fan.

I've had this discussion in other threads but anyone who says big Dan is giving even decent effort is full of it. They either don't watch the DL at ALL, or they just want to take up for him because he is big and was supposed to be good. Most of the year he hasn't given good effort but hasn't gotten blown off the ball either. Well, this game he was getting pushed around and that should NEVER happen to him. He is too big and too good for him to allow that to happen. Just no fire. And i wish 55 would set the edge just one time, plz!!

 

[LotteryPick]

Butch Jones owes his players a gameplan that actually gives them a chance to compete.

There's no successful gameplan for an incredibly slow team.

 

[Joe Vols]

Butch Jones owes his players a gameplan that actually gives them a chance to compete.

I was at the game, and I can deal with getting beat. What I saw that was so upsetting is that there were so mNy players shying away fro contact, and physical battles in general. It is hard to game plan, when you have players who are too scared or are unwilling to block.
My wife thinks our guys put too much worth in playing for UT and not enough worth in how they play. She said she thinks that she believes have let playing at UT go their heads, and they are satisfied to just wear the uniform, but not defend it. The more time I have to consider what she said the less preposterous it seems now, than it did on the drive home.

 

[BeecherVol]

Butch Jones owes his players a gameplan that actually gives them a chance to compete.

True.

If the players can't get up enough pride for themselves they re more than likely not gonna dig down deep for anyone else. And if thats the case, the only way to fix that is attrition and recruiting.

 

[volinbama256]

This ^^^^^^^^

You know when we got push on the DL??? When Greg Clark and Danny O'brien were in the game. And O'brien was loafing on STs.

I don't like to criticize players too much for their physical shortcomings but to me they are fair game if they are giving little effort. That is one thing I can't overlook as a fan.

I've had this discussion in other threads but anyone who says big Dan is giving even decent effort is full of it. They either don't watch the DL at ALL, or they just want to take up for him because he is big and was supposed to be good. Most of the year he hasn't given good effort but hasn't gotten blown off the ball either. Well, this game he was getting pushed around and that should NEVER happen to him. He is too big and too good for him to allow that to happen. Just no fire. And i wish 55 would set the edge just one time, plz!!

Agree totally, these are the same guys that fought hard for the first part of the season and now look tired, lethargic, and unmotivated.(most of the Defense at this point) People can talk about speed all they want, but when we played FL, GA, and USCe, their lines were healthy and Strong and look how we performed against them. People forget that.....

 

[BanditVol]

@OP...I always wonder about the whole "lack of effort" thing, because it's really hard to gauge.

I was blasted for saying we didn't show a lack of effort against SOLA in the second half, that the players just got their confidence hurt by the turnovers.

How can anyone possibly crawl inside the head of the players and say "yeah, he's not trying". Sometimes it's a lack of decisiveness caused by lack of confidence, that can make it look like a player is loafing.

And the other thing is sometimes they just are not very good. Auburn is clearly fast and really good, from what I saw, at blocking downfield with their WRs. Heck, the WRs don't have anything else to do, they might as well block well.

Having said that, sometimes it's so obvious that you can absolutely spot a lack of effort. I think this did happen increasingly on Saturday as the game wore on.

But I think often some are quick to attribute EVERYTHING to "lack of effort", and to me that's too easy to do, for something that IMO is really hard to gauge.

 

[JACK8254]

If Butch gets this entire team to come out and fight against Vandy, then he is little short of a miracle worker. If I were ***** I would have some guys doing nothing but running this entire week. Some of these guys still owe Butch some physical effort from Saturday. Some of those players shouldn't be allowed onto the field to practice until they have repaid Butch for the effort they owed him from Saturday with interest.
As a fan of UT it was painful to watch. As a fan of the game of football it was even worse. The lack of effort some of our players put forth was striking. It was astonishing that division 1 athletes, or coaches would accept such mediocre effort from so many. The most blaring aspect of the game for me was special teams, coverage teams specifically, and then the defense. The offense played the best as a unit, although it wasn't without its fair share of loafers. There were people loafing down field. People dodging blocks. Players loafing and getting steam rolled by Auburn players who were going full speed. It was like watching a boxing match were only one guy is throwing any punches.
We aren't as slow as everyone is saying. We have a lot of players who simply loaf. We have a lot of players who simply don't fight off a block at all. We have a lot if players taking poor angles to the ball. We have a lot of blockers who AVOID contact of any kind getting playing time. How can this happen?
The players who are giving effort are working their tales off, and if I were them I would have a serious heart to heart with the guys who are going through the motions. Our defensive ends played terrible. I know Smith had one great play, but they lost 70% of their battles. Our corners lost 95% of their battles. Our linebackers, even AJ lost 50%. Our defensive linemen lost 70% of theirs.
Our coverage teams were a joke.
To me the most disappointing thing about Saturday was the lack of effort from many of our guys. From a competitive standpoint, I just don't understand how a guy can accept getting his tail whipped play after play and not fight back.
I don't think you can coach fight in a guy, you have to recruit it.

I AGREE 100 %. If the good players don't try- sit them down and give a guy with less talent but more heart a chance. Loafing spreads like cancer on any team- a coach cant tolerate it for any reason. I know these 4th year guys have had a hard time with 3 diff coaches, but quitting is not an option. Butch will get it done, somehow. Losing has become a way of life over there. that has to change.

 

[PACKERVOL]

There's no successful gameplan for an incredibly slow team.

Very true especially vs. most of the teams we've had to play are teams that are strong (fast) against our weakness (slow) on D. Our special teams looked like they were running in in water on the punt and kickoff returns.

 

[Joe Vols]

@OP...I always wonder about the whole "lack of effort" thing, because it's really hard to gauge.

I was blasted for saying we didn't show a lack of effort against SOLA in the second half, that the players just got their confidence hurt by the turnovers.

How can anyone possibly crawl inside the head of the players and say "yeah, he's not trying". Sometimes it's a lack of decisiveness caused by lack of confidence, that can make it look like a player is loafing.

And the other thing is sometimes they just are not very good. Auburn is clearly fast and really good, from what I saw, at blocking downfield with their WRs. Heck, the WRs don't have anything else to do, they might as well block well.

Having said that, sometimes it's so obvious that you can absolutely spot a lack of effort. I think this did happen increasingly on Saturday as the game wore on.

But I think often some are quick to attribute EVERYTHING to "lack of effort", and to me that's too easy to do, for something that IMO is really hard to gauge.

It's not hard to gauge when they are jogging, or standing and watching as the play goes on around them. It's not hard to gauge when a wedge blocker runs right passed the guy who makes the tackle without even trying to block him. It isn't as easy to sermon TV as it is live.

 

[oldsmokey67]

This ^^^^^^^^

You know when we got push on the DL??? When Greg Clark and Danny O'brien were in the game. And O'brien was loafing on STs.

I don't like to criticize players too much for their physical shortcomings but to me they are fair game if they are giving little effort. That is one thing I can't overlook as a fan.

I've had this discussion in other threads but anyone who says big Dan is giving even decent effort is full of it. They either don't watch the DL at ALL, or they just want to take up for him because he is big and was supposed to be good. Most of the year he hasn't given good effort but hasn't gotten blown off the ball either. Well, this game he was getting pushed around and that should NEVER happen to him. He is too big and too good for him to allow that to happen. Just no fire. And i wish 55 would set the edge just one time, plz!!

and i wish our dbs would take good angles.

 

[oldsmokey67]

who is 21 on the team.i wished he had been playing all year.he was in there playing with about 8.5 min. left and looked pretty good.

 

[sjt18]

Butch Jones owes his players a gameplan that actually gives them a chance to compete.

After a long time... I finally get to agree with you.

I like Jones and think that he is a good coach. Not so sure about the DC.... actually... I almost am sure after the last three games but it isn't quite fair to draw conclusions yet.


That said, the one thing so far that bothers me about Jones is that he seems to be tolerating the guys referenced in the OP. Run them? How about BENCH THEM? Start with Bullard and McCullers. That should get the attention of the two most underperforming groups.

Personally... I'm at the point of wanting to see the whole 2nd unit on the OL. Let's see if they will actually finish blocks and not commit penalties constantly.

I actually feel sorry for AJ right now. I'm sure it isn't easy pursuing runners with McCullers in his lap. Big Dan is getting manhandled one on one. The ball is snapped. He stands up. The OL drives him 8 yards into the secondary.... line up and repeat. But no changes to the starting line ups?

 

[Ducreux]

This stuff translates to the 'real world' as well....where you work if you have peers not putting the same effort in that you do or if you have department heads not requiring the same effort from his/her employees you do ….how do you handle that?

 

[sjt18]

who is 21 on the team.i wished he had been playing all year.he was in there playing with about 8.5 min. left and looked pretty good.

R Jones. He's the guy who has been healthy enough to play for 2 or 3 weeks now... practiced in spring... and in August... but couldn't get on the field until junk time vs Auburn.

 

[sjt18]

This stuff translates to the 'real world' as well....where you work if you have peers not putting the same effort in that you do or if you have department heads not requiring the same effort from his/her employees you do ….how do you handle that?

I manage a fairly complex operation where people MUST work autonomously much of the time. The answer is that people get discouraged or confrontational. Teamwork... ends. Respect for leadership... ends. Unless you can and are willing to micromanage everything every person does... you cannot tolerate low performers or bad attitudes.

Tolerance of poor performance is a disease. Demanding performance... weeds out those you don't want to start with.

 

[vollygirl]

I wish every thread went like this one. You are guys are actually discussing your points of view, instead of arguing with each other. Kudos to every one of you!!!!

Please pardon this interruption and carry on.

 

[sjt18]

There's no successful gameplan for an incredibly slow team.

This isn't an "incredibly slow team". It isn't an incredibly fast team... but a good gameplan would have prevented the rapes we witnessed in the last 3 games.

That is a worse excuse than was ever given for Dooley's failures... by me or anyone else

 

[volfan411]

R Jones. He's the guy who has been healthy enough to play for 2 or 3 weeks now... practiced in spring... and in August... but couldn't get on the field until junk time vs Auburn.

I had heard he was looking to redshirt but was glad to see him in the game. #46 came in and looked to be flying to the ball as well. I hope and want to see some of these younger guys at least getting in the games early against Vandy if for nothing more than to give the starters a breather.