Sousa out as director of the POSL...

[Ulysees E. McGill]

Are you serious?

No one is stopping him from speaking in any way. There is however consequences when you are part of an organization and choose to step outside the organization to air your complaints.

Sousa ought to run for congress. Instead of working within your organization to reach agreeable compromise, run to the press, stomp your feet, and hold your breath unless the other guys do what you want.

No..No I wasn't. For about the 15th time. Jeez you people need to turn your sarc detectors on.

 

[VolLee]

I've said numerous times that I don't agree with the way he handled it. However, based on his no response policy that he lifted, I'm inclined to believe the AD is covering something up.
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Like what? Roswell/Area 51 type stuff? I'm intrigued.

 

[whobethis16]

Like what? Roswell/Area 51 type stuff? I'm intrigued.

Since when does the football coach sit in on a meeting regarding anybody other than his staff or players, much less one that puts a faculty member on administrative leave? For about the millionth time, if you understood anything about how the Pride handles things, you'd know that Sousa has a no-response policy for anything from drunk fans at road games to scrutiny in the media. So, something happened in there that made Sousa lift that policy. Also, Cheek sounds like a power happy whiny school boy in his letter to Sousa. Makes him look like he's defensive about something that Sousa accused him and the AD about. If not that, then he's not thick skinned enough to be in a position that can have as much scrutiny as his does.

 

[DeerPark12]

Since when does the football coach sit in on a meeting regarding anybody other than his staff or players, much less one that puts a faculty member on administrative leave? For about the millionth time, if you understood anything about how the Pride handles things, you'd know that Sousa has a no-response policy for anything from drunk fans at road games to scrutiny in the media. So, something happened in there that made Sousa lift that policy. Also, Cheek sounds like a power happy whiny school boy in his letter to Sousa. Makes him look like he's defensive about something that Sousa accused him and the AD about. If not that, then he's not thick skinned enough to be in a position that can have as much scrutiny as his does.

Jones and Hart didn't sit in on the meeting where Sousa was relieved of his duties. They attended the meeting with the band where it was announced to them.

Jones attended because Sousa had told band members that he had requested the changes and was responsible for this. Jones took personal offense to that accusation and wanted to let the band know personally how much he appreciates them.

For the second time in this thread, if you're going to make accusations and conspiracy theories, at least get your basic facts straight.

 

[Weezer]

Sonic boom.

 

[Weezer]

Since when does the football coach sit in on a meeting regarding anybody other than his staff or players, much less one that puts a faculty member on administrative leave? For about the millionth time, if you understood anything about how the Pride handles things, you'd know that Sousa has a no-response policy for anything from drunk fans at road games to scrutiny in the media. So, something happened in there that made Sousa lift that policy. Also, Cheek sounds like a power happy whiny school boy in his letter to Sousa. Makes him look like he's defensive about something that Sousa accused him and the AD about. If not that, then he's not thick skinned enough to be in a position that can have as much scrutiny as his does.

Out of curiosity, are you a current POTS member? Are your statements from what you know of the situation or what you believe of Sousa?

From the outside looking in, I see a man who misjudged how his actions would be taken. Now he's paying severely for that misjudgement. It sucks for him, but actions have consequences.

 

[whobethis16]

Out of curiosity, are you a current POTS member? Are your statements from what you know of the situation or what you believe of Sousa?

From the outside looking in, I see a man who misjudged how his actions would be taken. Now he's paying severely for that misjudgement. It sucks for him, but actions have consequences.

I'm 4 years removed from it. There are current members that I have spoken to directly. I was told about 85% of the initial reaction is true. That is a helluva lot more than the AD has admitted.

I've admitted that Sousa has let his arrogance get the best of him. I have admitted that I'm not thrilled of how he handled it. And, yes, based on how he voiced his opinion, the consequences are justified. However, I do know the man would not have done that if he didn't feel he had no other way to stand up and defend his students. I have given situations that show Sousa knows how to follow protocol and has done so. But for a man that lived so strongly of that no response policy to lift it, allowing each member to be the voice of the 100 year old organization rather than just him or selecting a few is very telling. I'm sorry those with connections in the AD don't see that, but that is no different than any other jock vs musician situations. Jocks will stick together.

I don't know the extent of the cover-up I believe is taking place, but if you don't think the University and AD would side together against the Pride based on how much backscratching that goes on between the two, then I can't help you.

 

[whobethis16]

Jones and Hart didn't sit in on the meeting where Sousa was relieved of his duties. They attended the meeting with the band where it was announced to them.

Jones attended because Sousa had told band members that he had requested the changes and was responsible for this. Jones took personal offense to that accusation and wanted to let the band know personally how much he appreciates them.

For the second time in this thread, if you're going to make accusations and conspiracy theories, at least get your basic facts straight.

I'll only believe that as I see actions. Words mean nothing to me, especially after we heard similar words from Kiffin that year. I want to believe in Jones and how much he loves the traditions and appreciates things like the band, but until I see actions, all it'll be is words. Call me pessimistic or paranoid or whatever, but you know as well as I do how much the AD put up with Kiffin's crap just because he said the right things and was idolized like Jones is now.

 

[governmentmule]

This is ridiculous. What has Hart done to warrant being fired?

what has he done to stay ?he hamstrung Dooleys good defense,told Wilcox and company no contract extensions over a year and then Sal was brought in with a good contract

and backed into hiring CBJ,which I'm sure he is telling all who will listen,look at what i have done and he may be messing up the Lady Vols program

now there getting rid of Sousa because he was trying to take care of the bands role at football games,it does make you wonder what is going on between Hart and Cheeks

 

[Vercingetorix]

I'm 4 years removed from it. There are current members that I have spoken to directly. I was told about 85% of the initial reaction is true. That is a helluva lot more than the AD has admitted.

I've admitted that Sousa has let his arrogance get the best of him. I have admitted that I'm not thrilled of how he handled it. And, yes, based on how he voiced his opinion, the consequences are justified. However, I do know the man would not have done that if he didn't feel he had no other way to stand up and defend his students. I have given situations that show Sousa knows how to follow protocol and has done so. But for a man that lived so strongly of that no response policy to lift it, allowing each member to be the voice of the 100 year old organization rather than just him or selecting a few is very telling. I'm sorry those with connections in the AD don't see that, but that is no different than any other jock vs musician situations. Jocks will stick together.

I don't know the extent of the cover-up I believe is taking place, but if you don't think the University and AD would side together against the Pride based on how much backscratching that goes on between the two, then I can't help you.

DeerPark has disputed you on basic facts several times in this thread, on everything from the band not going to Arkansas in 2011, to the band not going to Missouri this year, to when Butch Jones sat in on what meeting this week. You have not pushed back on any of those facts, which leads an outsider such as myself to surmise that he probably has a better command of the current facts than you do, now that you're four years out. Which makes this idea of some cover-up seem unlikely. Do you have a comment on that? I'm not trying to be argumentative; I'm just an outsider reading message boards trying to figure out what's most likely going on. Thanks.

 

[GatorBill]

One thing I have noticed in my time here: Never doubt Deerpark.

Actual.
Factual.


And thanks for clearing up the "bJones attending the meeting" issue. I could not find a good explanation for that, and I think some of the places I have read it were a little confusing. That makes perfect sense to me.

 

[DeerPark12]

I'll only believe that as I see actions. Words mean nothing to me, especially after we heard similar words from Kiffin that year. I want to believe in Jones and how much he loves the traditions and appreciates things like the band, but until I see actions, all it'll be is words. Call me pessimistic or paranoid or whatever, but you know as well as I do how much the AD put up with Kiffin's crap just because he said the right things and was idolized like Jones is now.

I think taking an hour from his schedule to go meet with the band during a game week is a pretty strong action, but that's just me.

 

[PotS]

As a former member under Sousa, there is no doubt the man loves that band. It's really not even disputable. If you ever get a chance to see the Pride singing the Alma Mater in the band room before a game, you'll get a new understanding of what it means to be in that band.

But it's also not debatable that the man is incredibly arrogant.

There are times when you need to button up and have an "us against the world" mentality. There are also times when you need to realize the best path forward is to play nice with others. Maybe Sousa felt threatened, I don't know, and we may never know the specifics as to why he lifted the no-response policy.

But I do think he's attempting martyrdom, and I think that played into Butch Jones' personally addressing the Pride.

When Bruce Pearl was hired, he came to a practice, and pleaded with band members during the "around the ladder" at the end of rehearsal. You've got to understand that back then, very few wanted to be in the Men's Basketball Pep Band, because we all knew that the Women's Basketball Pep Band was where the post-season travel was. Bruce Pearl made it a point to embrace the band, and he understood what the support of the band would do TBA. The Men's Basketball Pep Band doubled in size that year, before Bruce had even beaten Texas. We all just wanted to be around Bruce -- that's just how he was.

I don't know Coach Jones. I'm not a student anymore, I'm not in the band anymore, I don't even live in the state of Tennessee anymore. But the way that he has seemingly embraced Tennessee, I have to believe that he understands just how important the Pride is to the football program.

Are the stand tunes old, outdated, and overplayed? Absolutely, 100%. Are the halftime shows corny? Most of the time, yes. But Circle Drill, Pregame, and the March to the Stadium/Salute to the Hill are all entrenched in the Tennessee Gameday Experience, and they aren't going anywhere. And if these things weren't actually being threatened, why did Sousa go off the handle like he did? I also don't understand why Sousa thought he needed to disassociate himself with the gameday planning.

Sorry for the novel.

 

[VolsRule]

is sousa related to john phillip sousa?

 

[oregonvol]

As a former member under Sousa, there is no doubt the man loves that band. It's really not even disputable. If you ever get a chance to see the Pride singing the Alma Mater in the band room before a game, you'll get a new understanding of what it means to be in that band.

But it's also not debatable that the man is incredibly arrogant.

There are times when you need to button up and have an "us against the world" mentality. There are also times when you need to realize the best path forward is to play nice with others. Maybe Sousa felt threatened, I don't know, and we may never know the specifics as to why he lifted the no-response policy.

But I do think he's attempting martyrdom, and I think that played into Butch Jones' personally addressing the Pride.

When Bruce Pearl was hired, he came to a practice, and pleaded with band members during the "around the ladder" at the end of rehearsal. You've got to understand that back then, very few wanted to be in the Men's Basketball Pep Band, because we all knew that the Women's Basketball Pep Band was where the post-season travel was. Bruce Pearl made it a point to embrace the band, and he understood what the support of the band would do TBA. The Men's Basketball Pep Band doubled in size that year, before Bruce had even beaten Texas. We all just wanted to be around Bruce -- that's just how he was.

I don't know Coach Jones. I'm not a student anymore, I'm not in the band anymore, I don't even live in the state of Tennessee anymore. But the way that he has seemingly embraced Tennessee, I have to believe that he understands just how important the Pride is to the football program.

Are the stand tunes old, outdated, and overplayed? Absolutely, 100%. Are the halftime shows corny? Most of the time, yes. But Circle Drill, Pregame, and the March to the Stadium/Salute to the Hill are all entrenched in the Tennessee Gameday Experience, and they aren't going anywhere. And if these things weren't actually being threatened, why did Sousa go off the handle like he did? I also don't understand why Sousa thought he needed to disassociate himself with the gameday planning.

Sorry for the novel.

That was a very interesting perspective. Thanks for sharing.

 

[IBlvNTmWrk]

As a former member under Sousa, there is no doubt the man loves that band. It's really not even disputable. If you ever get a chance to see the Pride singing the Alma Mater in the band room before a game, you'll get a new understanding of what it means to be in that band.

But it's also not debatable that the man is incredibly arrogant.

Sorry for the novel.

Nice post Pots... thanks for sharing.

 

[knoxvols11]

This not over with yet?

 

[Orange Blazer]

Jones and Hart didn't sit in on the meeting where Sousa was relieved of his duties. They attended the meeting with the band where it was announced to them.

Jones attended because Sousa had told band members that he had requested the changes and was responsible for this. Jones took personal offense to that accusation and wanted to let the band know personally how much he appreciates them.

For the second time in this thread, if you're going to make accusations and conspiracy theories, at least get your basic facts straight.

Boom x 2?

 

[whobethis16]

As a former member under Sousa, there is no doubt the man loves that band. It's really not even disputable. If you ever get a chance to see the Pride singing the Alma Mater in the band room before a game, you'll get a new understanding of what it means to be in that band.

But it's also not debatable that the man is incredibly arrogant.

There are times when you need to button up and have an "us against the world" mentality. There are also times when you need to realize the best path forward is to play nice with others. Maybe Sousa felt threatened, I don't know, and we may never know the specifics as to why he lifted the no-response policy.

But I do think he's attempting martyrdom, and I think that played into Butch Jones' personally addressing the Pride.

When Bruce Pearl was hired, he came to a practice, and pleaded with band members during the "around the ladder" at the end of rehearsal. You've got to understand that back then, very few wanted to be in the Men's Basketball Pep Band, because we all knew that the Women's Basketball Pep Band was where the post-season travel was. Bruce Pearl made it a point to embrace the band, and he understood what the support of the band would do TBA. The Men's Basketball Pep Band doubled in size that year, before Bruce had even beaten Texas. We all just wanted to be around Bruce -- that's just how he was.

I don't know Coach Jones. I'm not a student anymore, I'm not in the band anymore, I don't even live in the state of Tennessee anymore. But the way that he has seemingly embraced Tennessee, I have to believe that he understands just how important the Pride is to the football program.

Are the stand tunes old, outdated, and overplayed? Absolutely, 100%. Are the halftime shows corny? Most of the time, yes. But Circle Drill, Pregame, and the March to the Stadium/Salute to the Hill are all entrenched in the Tennessee Gameday Experience, and they aren't going anywhere. And if these things weren't actually being threatened, why did Sousa go off the handle like he did? I also don't understand why Sousa thought he needed to disassociate himself with the gameday planning.

Sorry for the novel.

Pretty much what I've been saying. There is some reason why Sousa lifted his policy and felt threatened (or felt his students were being wronged.) But, everyone takes these press releases by the AD as gospel, and don't understand that there is something the AD did, that most likely hasn't been mentioned, to cause Sousa to lose it like he did.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Pretty much what I've been saying. There is some reason why Sousa lifted his policy and felt threatened (or felt his students were being wronged.) But, everyone takes these press releases by the AD as gospel, and don't understand that there is something the AD did, that most likely hasn't been mentioned, to cause Sousa to lose it like he did.

So, you take these press releases and state the bolded, as gospel?

 

[whobethis16]

So, you take these press releases and state the bolded, as gospel?

When the University chancellor responds with an immature spoiled brat attitude, I do a bit. I've already conceded that Sousa's arrogance got the best of him, as well as that the end result based on how he went about it is justified. However, what would entice a man, who has spent 17 years in his position, obviously cares about the traditions and his students, been through 3 ADs, two Presidents, and 4 head coaches, but never acted this way, to do this? Those who don't believe the world revolves around football can sense that something is amiss.

 

[Orange_Crush]

When the University chancellor responds with an immature spoiled brat attitude, I do a bit. I've already conceded that Sousa's arrogance got the best of him, as well as that the end result based on how he went about it is justified. However, what would entice a man, who has spent 17 years in his position, obviously cares about the traditions and his students, been through 3 ADs, two Presidents, and 4 head coaches, but never acted this way, to do this? Those who don't believe the world revolves around football can sense that something is amiss.

So, the chancellor (in your opinion) acted like a spoiled brat, in response to actions that you have already conceded as arrogant and unprofessional, so it's obviously the administration's fault? I'm not sure I follow your logic. I'll break it down into a simpler form to make sure we're all on the same page.

Response: Chancellor, (in your opinion) unprofessional.
Action/(Response?): Sousa -- conceded as unprofessional
(Unknown) But it's obviously the Chancellor's fault. So much so, that you posted it as a given two posts ago...

To reverse the order for cause/effect:

(Unknown)
Sousa is conceded as unprofessional.
Chancellor responds.
You claim chancellor is obviously at fault.

Don't you think it's possible that your emotional ties to Sousa could be clouding your reasoning here?

 

[DaddyChad]

Well Martin's letter to Sousa was much more scathing IMHO than Cheek's.

Could it be that Sousa was just hard as hell to work with when people had equal or more power than him? There are those types in this world.

 

[Dragon18]

I'm 4 years removed from it. There are current members that I have spoken to directly. I was told about 85% of the initial reaction is true. That is a helluva lot more than the AD has admitted.

I've admitted that Sousa has let his arrogance get the best of him. I have admitted that I'm not thrilled of how he handled it. And, yes, based on how he voiced his opinion, the consequences are justified. However, I do know the man would not have done that if he didn't feel he had no other way to stand up and defend his students. I have given situations that show Sousa knows how to follow protocol and has done so. But for a man that lived so strongly of that no response policy to lift it, allowing each member to be the voice of the 100 year old organization rather than just him or selecting a few is very telling. I'm sorry those with connections in the AD don't see that, but that is no different than any other jock vs musician situations. Jocks will stick together.

I don't know the extent of the cover-up I believe is taking place, but if you don't think the University and AD would side together against the Pride based on how much backscratching that goes on between the two, then I can't help you.

Cover up??? What would be covered up? That the AD and CBJ wanted to modernize the game day experience? That's a given. Please enlighten me (us) as what would be so diabolical between the AD and the band that could possibly require a cover up? eace2:

 

[bamacheats]

Dear whobethis16,

You should've quit a long time ago.