Sousa out as director of the POSL...

#377
#377
vavolunteer said:
And now...................for the rest of the story............(see what I did there?)


Sousa knew his days were numbered. He was allowed to be mediocre for years because nobody cared. Seriously, you may consider him the Dooley of band directing. Well, guess what, things are changin, and the Athletic Department and Butch Jones want a kick ass band. Sousa, being the arrogant numbskull he is, didn't want to play ball. His actions made this decision by the university all too easy. He played right into their hands. When all the smoke clears, this will be a good move for the future of the band, assuming they hire a great candidate. They are pretty rare in the band directing world.

DON"T equate my comments into "Butch got the band director fired." Sousa got himself fired after years of being a jerk. Someone finally called him on it.
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Drummer?
 
#381
#381
Disclaimer First:
Saxophone, UF Bands 1983-84
Drumline, Michigan State 1984-85
UT Parent, 2011-Present

The music department is it's own entity. The Marching Band is an extension of the Football Program. They are a vital part of the game day experience, but just a part of it. Football drives the revenue, football is king, football is the reason that 100k people flock to campus on gameday. Without football, there would be no marching band.

But the COLLEGE gameday atmosphere depends heavily on the marching band. While I agree, somewhat, with Sousa's issues, I do not agree with his methods, or his madness. He stepped WAY over the line, from all I have read, and got what was coming to him.

MY CONCERNS:
1) I have a couple friends that are College Marching Band directors. There seems to be some rumor about the AD asking for 100 members to be cut from the band block. (100 more tickets to sell) Not cool.

2) In the news reports it states that Butch Jones was at the meeting that resulted in Sousa's removal from his position. Will the next band director be involved in meetings that involve the football coaches removal? Im not saying that these positions are equal, and one is clearly more vital to the University than the other, but that seems a bit odd to me.

3) Sousa clearly effed up the whole situation. If he had a beef with someone, he needed to go through proper channels. If he felt that channel was not responding, he needed to go a different route to get to where he needed, but not publicly.

3a) He didnt help his case by skipping meetings about gameday affairs.

4) I am a huge advocate for the college game day experience. I love college football. Pro football sucks in my opinion, because it is not the same experience. The Marching band is a large part of that experience. The UT pregame experience is a tradition that should remain untouched, and I imagine it will remain untouched. HOWEVER.......that band needs to get better. Im not intending to disrespect any members of the band, Im not disrespecting their work, or their talent. But as a whole, the band experience is not what it should be, or could be. There is a ton of musical talent, I dont think it is being used properly.

5) Yall need to pay attention to the Mich State Drumline, and their 3rd quarter feature. WOOT!!! There is so much that can be improved at UT in that area. No disrespect, just sayin'.

6) Replacing the band with piped in music is not going to happen. Diminishing the bands role by playing more piped in music IS going to happen. The second rumor (also by the college director friends) is that the band has been asked to LIPSYNC, or AIRBAND some tunes. Pretend they are playing, while the music is piped over the PA. Probably a rumor started by someone that is bitter.....I have my guesses.....but not cool. Hopefully it is wrong, and just a bad rumor. NOT COOL, if true.

7) Travel Budget: It's freaking expensive to take a full band on the road. The SEC is one of the few conferences where Pep bands are taken to most games. That is also still an expensive venture. This money has to come from somewhere and it is generally from the Athletic Budget. I dont have access to the budget, I dont know where their money goes, but it does fund the minor sports, and they are not cheap either. It would seem more relevant to send the Volleyball team, or soccer/rowing/tennis/golf, etc. to their games than it would to send a full band to Ol Miss. Just my thoughts.

Anyways, I hope this settles down fast, there are not many places with better game day experiences than UT (maybe no other place.......but I admittedly have a bias on this subject)
 
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#386
#386
Velo Vol said:
Heaven forbid that anyone dare offer an opinion on how the University of Tennessee should spend money.

What a rabble.
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Heaven forbid someone define what is an acceptable/unacceptable excuse for UT to not spend their athletics $$$ on.

I imagine UT can probably formulate half a dozen valid reasons for not sending the band on the road.

The "but the cheerleaders get to go" comparison is roughly analogous to me, if I was hurting for money, and decided to eat out at McDonalds-- Burger King telling me I shouldn't have eaten at McDonalds because I couldn't afford their burger too.
 
#387
#387
Orange Blazer said:
Sousa did a little more than just offer his opinion. Let's be honest here.
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I think everyone would agree with this. It's one thing to go through the proper channels to express a problem and try to get a resolution.

Was anything accomplished by the actions of Sousa other than making both sides look bad and resulting in him getting terminated?
 
#388
#388
Orange Blazer said:
Sousa did a little more than just offer his opinion. Let's be honest here.
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I know. So the comparison with a poster here was silly.

Orange_Crush said:
Heaven forbid someone define what is an acceptable/unacceptable excuse for UT to not spend their athletics $$$ on.
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You're doing exactly what you criticized him for doing: opining on how the university should spend money.
 
#389
#389
Velo Vol said:
So the only options for September 10 were (1) no game or (2) a road game?
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UT did not give up or cancel a home game to play the game at Bristol. They would have played at Nebraska.

You can't give up something you don't/didn't have.
 
#391
#391
I think Sousa's removal was clearly justified.

1. Sousa had some legitimate grievances, but approached the problem in entirely the wrong way. He tried to be a diva and extend power he did not have. As a result, he has injured the integrity of the very entity that he was trying to protect.

2. The band's budget being slashed (1% reduction) is likely justified. Times are tough and everyone is cutting back. The band should be no exception. I agree that tons of money is spent on football, but people don't pay hundreds of dollars to watch the band. Yes, it is part of the experience, but I'd rather see a winning football team than a nice halftime show. Our band's budget is still tremendous compared to pretty much any other institution.

3. I don't think its a big deal at all that we are not sending a pep band to Oregon or Missouri. It is enormously expensive to do so. If you fly 30 band members, a drum major, and probably 5-6 staff members and equipment/uniform people, that adds up really quick. I don't see why my tuition dollars should be spent in order to give band members a short free vacation to Oregon in order to play Rocky Top for Oregon fans. There are more appropriate uses of university funds. Also, its not like the teams performance is impacted by the presence of the band. If it is, we have larger concerns

4. I don't think the pride's music, aside from Rocky Top and Down the Field, is very good. I sit near the band and they don't really pump up or excite fans around me. Just my two cents, but Sousa may be a little old fashioned. Its a new age.

5. The players want canned music. Every song played at the UGA game was chosen by the football players as music THEY wanted to hear. Recruits also want canned music. I agree the band is a pivotal part of the experience, but allowing some pre-recorded music to play at certain times can improve the experience for both the football players and the fans. The band's live music should not be replaced, merely augmented.

6. Pride members are going to be upset. They don't get as many free trips, don't get to play quite as much, and don't get as high of per diems, which were high. They are also buying in on Dr. Sousa's misleading statements. They need to learn to accept change. The band members still get to play, retain their scholarships, have the PRIVILEGE (not right) to march in Neyland every home game, and still get to represent the University while doing an activity they enjoy. The band would not have many of the opportunities they enjoy were it not for the athletic department.

Changes happen. You may protest in the appropriate avenues. Sousa thought he was above such recourse. The University should have little tolerance of insubordinate employees. Sousa created this nightmare, now he has to wake up. He should be allowed to teach, per his tenure, but not conduct the Pride. Its time for new leadership.
 
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#392
#392
The thing that you guys are missing on these last few pages is that it is SEC policy that the home team decides what kind of band that the visiting team gets to bring. What band looks like on away games is not a decision that UT gets to make.
 
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#394
#394
whobethis16 said:
I'm not all that concerned with full band. There's no excuse to not send at least a 30 member pep band.
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Oh really? Let's look at the cost.

Plane - How do you suggest we get them and their equipment there? The team charter was full, so if we charter a separate plane for the band for 35, including a couple of staffers, you're looking at $50-60k minimum for a round trip cross-country flight. Commercial fights were running at about $1,100 a person, according to friends that went. So just for the plane, you're looking at $38,500, and you still haven't gotten the instruments there. But let;s be conservative for the sake of argument and say $38,500 for getting there.

Bus - Now you're in Oregon, going to need a bus. A charter bus for two days is going to run about $2,500. Again, this is probably on the low end, but whatever.

Hotel - Well, you got there, now you have to stay somewhere. Hotels in Eugene were nuts that weekend, so let's say they had to stay down in Portland. That'll add a little to the charter bus cost, but I'll just leave that out. The cheapest rate my friends found for an acceptable hotel (a Hampton Inn) was $150/night with a 2-night minimum. I'm again going to be super conservative and say the band negotiated a deal and didn't have to pay for the minimum. They'll stack the band members at 4 to a room, but those staff members will be two to a room. So you'll need 11 or 12 rooms. Again, low end, we'll say 11 rooms at $150/night, there's another $1650.

Food/Per diem - Leaving on Friday afternoon and returning late Saturday night, UT would be on the hook for the standard $10 breakfast, $12 lunch and $22 dinner that is the state rate for per diem. So 1 breakfast, 2 lunches, 2 dinners. $2730.

Tickets - What I think a lot of people forget is bands don't get in at road games for free. UT is paying for a full-price ticket for each of those band members. Oregon tickets were $90. So there's another $3,150.

So here's how it breaks down, using the most conservative estimate possible.

Plane - $38,500
Bus - $2,500
Hotel - $1650
Meals - $2730
Tickets - $3,150

Total - $48,530

So it is your opinion, Mr. whobethis16, that it is in the best interests of the University and the athletic department to spend at a bare minimum nearly $50k to send a 30-person band to Oregon? The band could hire a full-time employee for that.
 
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#395
#395
Boca Vol said:
UT did not give up or cancel a home game to play the game at Bristol. They would have played at Nebraska.

You can't give up something you don't/didn't have.
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My point is that UT could have had a home game against some directional school on that date rather than playing at Bristol.

Why is it relevant that UT has seven home games that season? Is there an NCAA rule against eight home games?
 
#396
#396
Velo Vol said:
My point is that UT could have had a home game against some directional school on that date rather than playing at Bristol.

Why is it relevant that UT has seven home games that season? Is there an NCAA rule against eight home games?
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Because seven is the usual number of home games. We played eight once. Seven is the number that Tennessee and every other BCS-level school base their budget around having. Going under that number is what we would consider "giving up" a home date.

So, yes, it's possible that Tennessee could have cancelled the Nebraska game to have a home game. But they cancelled it to have the Bristol game instead. They did not cancel or move a scheduled home game to do it. If this game had not come along, we would not have cancelled the series and would be playing in Lincoln, Nebraska on September 10, 2016.
 
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#397
#397
DeerPark12 said:
Oh really? Let's look at the cost.

Plane - How do you suggest we get them and their equipment there? The team charter was full, so if we charter a separate plane for the band for 35, including a couple of staffers, you're looking at $50-60k minimum for a round trip cross-country flight. Commercial fights were running at about $1,100 a person, according to friends that went. So just for the plane, you're looking at $38,500, and you still haven't gotten the instruments there. But let;s be conservative for the sake of argument and say $38,500 for getting there.

Bus - Now you're in Oregon, going to need a bus. A charter bus for two days is going to run about $2,500. Again, this is probably on the low end, but whatever.

Hotel - Well, you got there, now you have to stay somewhere. Hotels in Eugene were nuts that weekend, so let's say they had to stay down in Portland. That'll add a little to the charter bus cost, but I'll just leave that out. The cheapest rate my friends found for an acceptable hotel (a Hampton Inn) was $150/night with a 2-night minimum. I'm again going to be super conservative and say the band negotiated a deal and didn't have to pay for the minimum. They'll stack the band members at 4 to a room, but those staff members will be two to a room. So you'll need 11 or 12 rooms. Again, low end, we'll say 11 rooms at $150/night, there's another $1650.

Food/Per diem - Leaving on Friday afternoon and returning late Saturday night, UT would be on the hook for the standard $10 breakfast, $12 lunch and $22 dinner that is the state rate for per diem. So 1 breakfast, 2 lunches, 2 dinners. $2730.

Tickets - What I think a lot of people forget is bands don't get in at road games for free. UT is paying for a full-price ticket for each of those band members. Oregon tickets were $90. So there's another $3,150.

So here's how it breaks down, using the most conservative estimate possible.

Plane - $38,500
Bus - $2,500
Hotel - $1650
Meals - $2730
Tickets - $3,150

Total - $48,530

So it is your opinion, Mr. whobethis16, that it is in the best interests of the University and the athletic department to spend at a bare minimum nearly $50k to send a 30-person band to Oregon? The band could hire a full-time employee for that.
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You are making way too much sense for some people.
 
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#400
#400
Weezer said:
If they want to keep their scholarships, then any musician that has one will perform. They'd have to have a medical excuse to miss in this situation(imo). It would be silly for them to put their schollys on the line.

Non-schollys could sit out without fear of financial repercussion, but it would seem silly to me.

Maybe there's more to the story than I've seen, but what I've read makes all this seem so silly. If it really is about reduced playing time and reduced travel expenses, then Sousa is an idiot. I'm sorry to the guy with the man-crush on him, but really? Is this something to start a fight with the admin over?

You still have pre-game, you still have half-time, you still have after the game. I'm sure when there's a score, Down the Field is still played followed by Rocky Top. It's not like a football game is where you showcase your true musical ability, so I fail to see how reduced playing time is something to stir the pot over. And as for travel, the AD pays for that. It doesn't come from the music dept budget. If they decide they don't want the band at every game, so be it. That's their choice, and any negativity expressed by fans should be directed at the AD for that choice, but travel is not a right the band has. We travelled at the AD's discretion, on their dime. And as I recall, they gave us enough of a per diem to have a good time. I normally came home with money left over.

IMO, as someone who marched in the POTS, this smacks of individuals wanting more because they always got it. UT and the UTAD do not owe the POTS anything. That's not to say the band is unimportant because I truly believe we add to the gameday environment enormously, but the sense of self-importance is out of hand. Yes, members put in long practice hours, hours harder than most would realize, but we did it, at least in my time there, because we enjoyed the overall experience. You get to see the game in a totally different way.

I think the band should be appreciated, but I also think the band members should appreciate what they have. Anyone that dissatisfied should just quit.

End of rant.
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Good post....thanks for the input. I too doubt that any member would not want to march. I am sure they are very devoted and love the gameday experience. Again, Neyland would not be the same without them. Hopefully something good will come out of this....and I really hope for the POTSB as well.
 
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