Sousa out as director of the POSL...

Nothing to do with free speech. Everything to do with poor job performance.

I really don't care, just thought it was kind of humorous. The quote up above my post did say it was because he was stirring up alumni and others. Didn't say anything poor job performance. :hi:
 
I guess what I am trying to say is..I really don't give a crap about this either way....I just really thought is was funny that Sousa tried to stir up a bunch of crap and he got the hammer dropped on him....I was just kidding.
 
Could you or another passionate Hart hater give a legitimate reason why he is called BAMA Dave and not Seminole Dave, and why he is not qualified to be the UT AD. Legit Q.

While I'm pretty impartial on the guy myself, he gets the "Bama Dave" nickname because he is a graduate and former employee of the University of Alabama, and has probably said the R-T words several thousand times in his life.
 
Did I miss somewhere in Cheeks letter where he notifies Souza of a change in job status?

He tells him that his status is up to Dr. Martin. Her letter reflects the change in status.

Regardless, any written communication would be open to a FOIA request.

So you believe he shouldn't have communicated with him at all because it might have been requested by the media? What exactly is your point here?
 
Dave was ASSISTANT AD at Alabama for a short time, and that after being HEAD AD at Florida State for a lot of years.

Could you or another passionate Hart hater give a legitimate reason why he is called BAMA Dave and not Seminole Dave, and why he is not qualified to be the UT AD. Legit Q.

Did you ever stop to think why he isn't AD at FSU anymore? How many major programs have ADs who couldn't hack it at another major program and was let go?
 
Did you ever stop to think why he isn't AD at FSU anymore? How many major programs have ADs who couldn't hack it at another major program and was let go?

Couldn't hack it? He was there nearly a decade where FSU had unprecedented success on the field and financially.

He left because of a new President that wanted rid of Bowden, and Hart refused to pull the trigger.
 
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You know, the Supreme Court has "waffled" on the rights of free speech on privately owned property since the 40s. Look up some of their rulings and you don't have a clear consensus...

The Supreme Court has ruled in some cases that privately owned property owners cannot restrict the free speech of citizens when that property exists solely for the purpose of public commerce and trade.

I'd say that pretty much characterizes Volnation...

Nevertheless, I certainly have misunderstood the rights to free speech, but after reading a summary of Supreme Court cases concerning where free speech is allowed and disallowed by private property owners--I'm more confused than ever. And, it seems that no one really knows until it is challenged in court. :salute:

It is actually simpler than you are making it seem, but far more complicated than most believe who attempt to interpret this run-on sentence: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

In this case, many are making the argument that Sousa is a government employee. That appears to have merit, and if so, the Supreme Court has clearly stated that "First Amendment protection does not exist [for public employees] unless the expression is about public concern, and even then, the employee can be disciplined or fired if the government can show, on balance, that the efficient operation of the office justified the action."
(see: Constitutional Law, Principles and Policies, 3rd by Chemerinsky).

The key here is that the band performing, while important to some on here, isn't likely of great public concern, no matter how much people here freak out about it. This is more reserved for the hypothetical situation where Sousa finds Cheek spending school funds to hire prostitutes, so Sousa speaks out and is fired.

To your other points, especially about message boards, I think the evaluation is much simpler. If the property is private, such as a message board that is not a public entity, it is clear that there is no right to use that private property for your own speech. Because it is private property, the Constitution does not apply.

It is important to remember that there are categories of speech that are totally unprotected or less-protected regardless of where you do them. Those include:
1)incitement of illegal activity,
2)fighting words, and
3)obscenity

But this is all a general discussion and I am sure I have taken anyone who is still reading to the end of their attention span.
 
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The Pride of the Southland can never go away. Sousa perhaps....but hire someone with the ability and drive to keep it going strong. Times change but we can't get rid of Rocky Top played by the Pride of the Southland. It is awesome....still and always will give me chills. The band is the band though. They are great but they can't get to big for their britches. They have to accept change like everyone else. The*bands everywhere...High school included....act like they have such a chip on their shoulder...that they are the abused step sister. The football on the field is the attraction and the band is something thats greatly appreciated and something we are all proud of but don't try to get bigger than the football team. Ain't gonna happen. Ever since I was small in the early 60s the band has been awesome and something everyone [mostly] has been utterly proud of. Get over it, accept some change and enjoy being a part of such a great band that gets to play in such a historic stadium for one of the most storied programs in the nation. The worlds not against you and everything you all do is awesome and we are proud to call you ours but come on now. Football is the reason you all exist and the reason we as fans go to Neyland. The Pride of the Southland though do does make it more enjoyable. Don't ruin your gig at Neyland...there is nothing else out there!!
 
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Couldn't hack it? He was there nearly a decade where FSU had unprecedented success on the field and financially.

He left because of a new President that wanted rid of Bowden, and Hart refused to pull the trigger.

JoAnne Graf...


Wetherell has pushed Hart to improve working relationships with other university offices, improve procedures for investigating allegations of wrongdoing by athletes, and the internal communications within the athletic department.

Seminoles AD Hart leaving Florida State after 12 years - College Sports - ESPN
 
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Well why don't you walk up to a politician or cop and tell them your going to shoot them in the face and see how that goes for you. I bet it doesn't end with them letting you on your way because your just exercising your freedom of speech.

Also its clear this isn't a freedom of speech issue, this is an employee circumventing company policy for their own agenda issue.

This is the part I think some have difficulty understanding. The guy is hired by the company to do a job consistent with company policy and business plans and so forth. He apparently had issues with elements of the business plan and tried to circumvent management. Insubordination.

It happens a lot in government and related institutions. People set up their own little kingdoms and disassociate themselves from the bigger picture.

It'd be like the QB calling a play and both tackles and both guards go along with him and the RB is on board, also the TE. The X, Y, and slot receivers are right there with him too but the center is pissed because he doesn't like that play so he deliberately snaps the ball over the QB's head in order to register his opposition to the play call. Everyone knows what he did and why he did it. I'd have a hard time finding excuses for that sort of behavior. That has to be a violation of team rules worthy of suspension. jmo.
 
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Sousa fired and young hotshot band director comes in and in a year moves on to his dream school. UT goes another three years with a band director that is in way over his head. Finally after almost a half decade in the wilderness a band director that "gets it" will be hired.
 
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Dave was ASSISTANT AD at Alabama for a short time, and that after being HEAD AD at Florida State for a lot of years.

Could you or another passionate Hart hater give a legitimate reason why he is called BAMA Dave and not Seminole Dave, and why he is not qualified to be the UT AD. Legit Q.

"Bama Bangs" Dave is a Bama ALUM who I think is here to undermine the program. He hired Butch just to get UT good enough to make Bama look good in the BCS standings but not good enough to top the Tide. Hopefully this comes back to bite him, but that's the reason we did not have a "grand slam" hire.
 
First off, I've never met Sousa personally, but people I trust told me he was pretty much an assclown. Apparently he thought extremely highly of himself without ever earning the respect.

Second, I did march POTS under Dr. Julian's last years. That man was a complete badass. He could be extremely difficult(put nicely), but I respected the hell out of the man. He could have pulled this stunt and gotten away with it. Doc had been there a long time and knew a lot of important alumni. As hard as he could be, he understood the politics of the university and played them well. My understanding is Sousa has never really done this, so it doesn't surprise me he's in his current position.

And finally, to any who suggest the band is not needed, I call you idiots. Stop and think how many of the game day traditions involve the band. I'm not saying they couldn't be phased out, but do you realize the traditions that would be diminished? The band participates in the Vol walk. The band marches to the stadium and crowds do line up to watch, and when they do the "Salute to the Hill", the crowd on the Hill goes nuts. I've known lots of families who always include that in their game day experience. Inside the stadium, the band performs one of the oldest and most traditional pre-game shows in the country, concluding with the opening of the T when the players enter the field. And all of these things are before the game even starts.

And after the game starts, could you imagine a UT game without Rocky Top? Listening to a 100k plus crowd trying to sing Rocky Top is an experience itself. And let's not forget other traditional songs the band plays, or at least played while I was there. Fight Vols Fight, Down the Field(UT's actual fight song), The Tennessee Waltz, and the Alma Mater. And believe it or not, some people do indeed enjoy the half-time show.

I'm not defending Sousa. Honestly, I've only ever heard bad things about him. But don't attack the POTS because of him. That's like hating the Vols because you couldn't stand Dooley. The men and women involved in the band work hard to keep you entertained. In my time, most of us weren't scholarship players, we did it because we enjoyed it. We felt like we were part of something bigger. Yes, the football team is why you go, but we add tremendously to the festivities of gameday. We help make it special.
 
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So a longtime staple of the program spoke out about a change in policy that was bound to be unpopular with fans, and so the new administration got rid of him?

Yeah, sounds like Hart is running things smoothly over there. No wonder he was so successful at FSU.

Dont tell this to the sheep they- think hart is great.. Fact is he has never hired a coach that's won a championship..but he is taking care of tn...

N sounds like hart wants it his way or the highway.. Maybe he wants to pull in the bammer or FSU band guy n have his guy... U know like he thought dools was going to beat mizz or candy n keep him around. If that's evaluating talent. ..geez we r in trouble.
 
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Now that is how you squash free speech folks..

Are you serious?

No one is stopping him from speaking in any way. There is however consequences when you are part of an organization and choose to step outside the organization to air your complaints.

Sousa ought to run for congress. Instead of working within your organization to reach agreeable compromise, run to the press, stomp your feet, and hold your breath unless the other guys do what you want.
 
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If you read the 10/14/13 letters to Sousa from the chancellor & provost, it's clear why he was dismissed. They are online; sorry, don't have the link.:whistling:
 

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