Space Exploration

Are NASA's future missions and budget justified?

  • It's worth the time and expenditures

    Votes: 223 66.0%

  • Complete waste of money

    Votes: 41 12.1%

  • We need to explore, but not at the current cost

    Votes: 74 21.9%
  • Total voters
    338
#226
#226
Orange_Crush said:
You serious?

If a serial killer said: "Hey, I won't kill anymore. And I'll even help little old ladies cross the street."

That makes it all OK?

One of the top NASA scientists ran the internment camp on-site, producing bombs, where 25,000 people died of hangings, starvation and lack of medical provisions. He ran a concentration camp! Another went out and hand picked people to put in it.

Pull the view back beyond just the rocket program. Try this one on for size:



Tried and convicted of mass murder war crimes. The US gave him a pardon and put him to work. But as long as he didn't do it again, and since he helped us develop nerve gas... No problem. Nothing to be ashamed of there.
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You're starting to see the light. Problems? Yeah, sure. Everything has problems. But, there's nothing to be ashamed of, given the alternatives. You know, the big picture.

How many lives have been saved because of their contributions? How many US lives were/are better for their contributions? Any? Some? A lot?

How many US lives would have been lost had they defected to the USSR vs. the US?

We all knew at the time that they were former Nazi scientists, right? The fact that some of the former Nazi scientists allegedly did horrible things is interesting, but did you or anyone else think that Nazi scientists were all working on a cure for cancer or a new raspberry flavor formula?

I still don't get the embarrassment.
 
#227
#227
n_huffhines said:
Why?

I know there is value in it, but why do we need an agency to do it? Can't we just leave it up to academics and the free market?
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He who controls space will control the world.

Want to leave that up to just anyone with no oversight?
 
#228
#228
Grand Vol said:
Elon Musk is a genius.
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A lot more photos at this link!!

Photos inside and outside of Dragon V2

Photos inside and outside of Dragon V2


Eyeing the next step beyond launching satellites and supplies, SpaceX dropped the curtain Thursday on the design of an upgraded Dragon spacecraft, replete with 3D printed rocket engines, leather seats, and touchscreen cockpit controls for up to seven astronauts.

SpaceX founder and CEO Elon Musk summarized the capsule as a "21st century spaceship" that will return to Earth with a propulsive touchdown on land.

SpaceX presented the capsule to VIPs and media Thursday night at the company's headquarters in Hawthorne, Calif., giving visitors an up-close look at the capsule and its flight-like interior, including futuristic controls inspired by Tesla Motors, Musk's electric car company.

10_600627.jpg



25_600387.jpg
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SpaceX Dragon V2 | Flight Animation (2:10)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cf_-g3UWQ04[/youtube]


SpaceX Dragon V2 | Unveil (15:08)

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yEQrmDoIRO8[/youtube]
 
#230
#230
CagleMtnVol said:
A lot more photos at this link!!
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Like I said before, seeing things like this is like studying the days after the Wright Brothers flew at Kitty Hawk. It's taken several decades for the private sector to finally get going in the space realm, but the first companies are bravely taking new steps into the cosmos. And I'm thinking you will see a whole lot more companies getting started in the near future just like there were dozens of companies that formed to create marvels that travel through the skies. All it takes is one person with some vision and a crazy idea of going into space.

Things like this are exciting. And again, a bit embarrassing since the private sector is doing what our government isn't and won't right now.
 
#231
#231
McDad said:
You sound like Dr Evil from the Austin Powers movies.
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It's the truth. Hog point out before the British controlled a vast portion of the world because they were unrivaled on the oceans.

Whomever controls the new "ocean" of space will control the world.
 
#232
#232
Grand Vol said:
It's the truth. Hog point out before the British controlled a vast portion of the world because they were unrivaled on the oceans.

Whomever controls the new "ocean" of space will control the world.
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I highly doubt it. But I'm not getting my thong in a pinch over it.
 
#235
#235
McDad said:
I highly doubt it. But I'm not getting my thong in a pinch over it.
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Doesn't our (and everyone else's) military depend on satellites for navigation... and targeting.....and communications.

Isn't most commerce directly or indirectly integrated to comm satellites?
 
#236
#236
Danl said:
Doesn't our (and everyone else's) military depend on satellites for navigation... and targeting.....and communications.

Isn't most commerce directly or indirectly integrated to comm satellites?
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That's a tinfoil hat conspiracy. Get real.
 
#237
#237
Grand Vol said:
It's the truth. Hog point out before the British controlled a vast portion of the world because they were unrivaled on the oceans.

Whomever controls the new "ocean" of space will control the world.
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It's surprising that more do not understand this. Any wonder China and Rusia and India are moving as fast as they can?
 
#238
#238
hog88 said:
It's surprising that more do not understand this. Any wonder China and Rusia and India are moving as fast as they can?
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China is about 30 years late into the game and that's kind of surprising. India is about where they should be. Russia...should be and could be doing more, but with the budget crisis they had after the fall of the Soviet Union, they are about where they should be expected to be.

Us on the other hand are far behind where we should be in my opinion.
 
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#239
#239
Grand Vol said:
China is about 30 years late into the game and that's kind of surprising. India is about where they should be. Russia...should be and could be doing more, but with the budget crisis they had after the fall of the Soviet Union, they are about where they should be expected to be.

Us on the other hand are far behind where we should be in my opinion.
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Agreed. They (at our current pace) will surpass us.
 
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Reactions: 1 person
#242
#242
hog88 said:
True.
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As I pointed out earlier, if our priorities in space wouldn't change every administration, this wouldn't be a problem. Kennedy proposed we go to the moon and Johnson naturally followed up on it (because he loved the program as well as having a vested interest by NASA being in Texas). Nixon was President during Apollo 11, but Johnson got us there.

Nixon axed the remainder of the planned Apollo 18-20 flights, brought us Skylab.

Carter nixed salvaging Skylab and brought us the Shuttle Program.

Reagan never really pushed the Shuttle program any further or had long term goals so to speak except the Freedom Space Station which would eventually become part of the ISS. However, the STS was our new "toy" so to speak and the Challenger disaster set the program back some time.

Clinton focused on the ISS, but never took the logical step in the short term Shuttle replacement.

And neither did Bush to a degree. But started the Constellation Program to return us to the moon and a leap frog to Mars.

Obama cancelled the large scale Constellation Program and scaled it back in favor of an asteroid mission.

Who knows what the next President will do.
 
#243
#243
I read somewhere that NASA main focus is getting to Mars by 2035 or so? I think the article said the round trip would take 3 years. It also said they want to create out posts on Mars. My question is what's so important about Mars? We don't even know enough about Earth. Why waste money going to Mars?
 
#244
#244
BigOrangeTrain said:
I read somewhere that NASA main focus is getting to Mars by 2035 or so? I think the article said the round trip would take 3 years. It also said they want to create out posts on Mars. My question is what's so important about Mars? We don't even know enough about Earth. Why waste money going to Mars?
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Because outside of earth, it's the one place in that solar system that's even remotely capable of sustaining life as we know it.
 
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Reactions: 2 people
#246
#246
The return in spin-off technologies alone make the space program worth it. This is to say nothing of the everyday stuff we take for granted that wouldn't be possible.

And the moral high ground discussion about using nazi scientists is warranted, but a little overblown IMO. We can say what we want in 20/20 hindsight but given the circumstances at the time you got to do what you need to. We shook hands and carved up Eastern Europe with a ruthless dictator who was systematically worse than Hitler. Von Braun was a Nazi, but by all accounts and given his post war achievements he never bought into the ideology despite his complacency for reasons we can't fathom unless we were in that situation. Hell, this country was founded on the extermination of American Indians. Who is embarrassed to live here as a result?

It's always easy to say what we "should" do, it's a lot harder to say what we "would" do. Characterizing that as an embarrassment is wrong. Context means a lot in these situations.
 
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Reactions: 2 people
#247
#247
Grand Vol said:
Because outside of earth, it's the one place in that solar system that's even remotely capable of sustaining life as we know it.
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So? We are a long, long way from making earth uninhabitable. So why spend billions exploring a planet that has no atmosphere and one that we would need to spend even more money to build artificial outposts to live in?
 
#248
#248
BigOrangeTrain said:
So? We are a long, long way from making earth uninhabitable. So why spend billions exploring a planet that has no atmosphere and one that we would need to spend even more money to build artificial outposts to live in?
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Yeah, for certain! We should continue overpopulating the earth and stop all forms of research that have come about from the space program. No more exploration, no more scientific benefits, no more commercial benefits.

Screw space, we don't need that crap!

It doesn't matter that some significant leaps in commercial technologies happened as a part of space exploration. Or when you want to watch UT play football this fall that's only because satellite uplinks make it happen (a by product of space exploration). Or whether or not you know it might rain tomorrow because of satellite images (by product of space exploration). Or any number of dry lubricants you use in every day life (by products of space exploration). Or even wireless communications that were greatly enhanced by...you guess it, space exploration.

Tip of the iceberg. Who knows what technologies would come about from attempting to travel to another planet. Maybe you have no spirit of adventure, but man was not meant to stay in one spot.
 
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Reactions: 1 person
#249
#249
Grand Vol said:
Yeah, for certain! We should continue overpopulating the earth and stop all forms of research that have come about from the space program. No more exploration, no more scientific benefits, no more commercial benefits.

Screw space, we don't need that crap!

It doesn't matter that some significant leaps in commercial technologies happened as a part of space exploration. Or when you want to watch UT play football this fall that's only because satellite uplinks make it happen (a by product of space exploration). Or whether or not you know it might rain tomorrow because of satellite images (by product of space exploration). Or any number of dry lubricants you use in every day life (by products of space exploration). Or even wireless communications that were greatly enhanced by...you guess it, space exploration.

Tip of the iceberg. Who knows what technologies would come about from attempting to travel to another planet. Maybe you have no spirit of adventure, but man was not meant to stay in one spot.
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And we wouldn't even be where we are today as a species without antibiotics. Something that had zero to do with the space program. We are a mutation away from destruction, but you're right, spending billions for a mission 20+ years away is way more important.

Education and biomedical research are way more important than space. I would support learning more about our own planet much more. If NASA wanted to use the money to explore the Earth in more depth, I say go for it.
 
#250
#250
BigOrangeTrain said:
And we wouldn't even be where we are today as a species without antibiotics. Something that had zero to do with the space program. We are a mutation away from destruction, but you're right, spending billions for a mission 20+ years away is way more important.

Education and biomedical research are way more important than space. I would support learning more about our own planet much more. If NASA wanted to use the money to explore the Earth in more depth, I say go for it.
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Funny you mention biomedical research as a majority of advances in biomedical research in the last 2 decades have come from ISS.
 
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