Space Exploration

[hog88]

Just chalk me up to a "no until we have the technology and money."

You don't have to justify anything. We have differing opinions that's all. You think exploring space is detrimental to the survival of the human race and something that we should do regardless of the cost.

I feel that money could be used for helping humans on this planet. Like education, biomedical research, feeding the hungry and getting to know our planet. Your opinion deals in the POSSIBILITIES of benefitting mankind. Mine deals with absolutely helping mankind. That's all.

Never will have the technology unless we send the money.

Bet you would have been one of the guys standing at the dock calling Columbus and idiot and waste of money.

 

[Velo Vol]

Asteroid defense ≠ space exploration

 

[Grand Vol]

Asteroid defense ≠ space exploration

Gotta see them coming.

 

[Velo Vol]

If defending the planet were our top priority, we need not fool with this kind of stuff.

NASA Statement on National Research Council Report on Human Spaceflight | NASA

 

[Grand Vol]

If defending the planet were our top priority, we need not fool with this kind of stuff.

NASA Statement on National Research Council Report on Human Spaceflight | NASA

Okay think about it. If defending the Earth is a priority (and I think it should be) a manned mission to divert an incoming asteroid or comet would have a far greater chance of success then an automated one. Humans can think on their feet and adapt to a changing environment. And the chances of success go way up in that situation.

Now how does this relate to a Mars mission or even a lunar colony? Because the research and development of technologies associated with a long term maned mission to Mars would be the same technologies that would be needed for a manned deep space mission to divert a potentially hazardous object. So the goals are really one in the same.

Yes, earth defense is equal to space exploration because the technologies and goals associated with both are the same. You can't send a team to Mars and back without long term considerations. Just the same that you couldn't send a team to an inbound asteroid or comet without long term considerations.

 

[PKT_VOL]

I disagree.

We can actually use stuff here on Earth, tomorrow.

How many tomorrows? We could have pushed off orbiting the Earth, the moon landing, Mars missions, Hubble (and its replacement), etc. with this line of thinking.

We're decades away from any new benefits exploring space.

Where do you get this?

 

[PKT_VOL]

You cannot be serious. Please explain how exploring space is more important than learning more about our own planet. What makes you think we are even remotely close to making earth uninhabitable?

Super duper serious.

1) The unknown/unexplored universe >>> unknown/unexplored parts of Earth. *Note* There are not enough ">" to make an accurate comparison there. The difference is unimaginable.

2) Diminishing return.

In the present day, how much useful knowledge/technology do we actually discover via the exploration of unknown/unexplored parts of the Earth? How much would we (or have we) if we explored space? Most of our important discoveries come in a lab and are not specific to Earth.

3) Humans have to transcend this planet to survive. Many things could go wrong.

 

[CagleMtnVol]

SpaceX's Huge Falcon Heavy Rocket: How It Works (Infographic)

SpaceX's Huge Falcon Heavy Rocket: How It Works (Infographic)

The next generation of super heavy-lift launch vehicle is the privately developed SpaceX Falcon Heavy. Although NASA's Saturn V moon rocket could lift about two and a half times as much mass, the Falcon Heavy would still be the most powerful U.S. rocket to be launched since the Saturns were retired in 1972.

Overall the Falcon Heavy is 224 feet tall (68.4 meters) and can lift 53 metric tons into orbit. Its first stage is composed of three Falcon 9 rocket boosters, with a total of 27 Merlin 1D rocket engines.

Once the first stage has separated, the second stage fires its single Merlin 1D rocket engine to put the payload into orbit. Both stages burn kerosene fuel and liquid oxygen.

SpaceX is planning a reusable version of the Falcon Heavy would have landing legs built into the first stage rockets, allowing for them to fly back to the launch site and land for refurbishment.:rock:

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

You obviously have missed everything that has been said so far. Or more likely ignore it. There are more than enough examples of items that have been developed from space travel technologies that have ABSOLUTELY helped mankind.

Your argument is detrimental to your stance.

I agree with you but there is no way you can say with any certainty that any more great technologies will be generated. I can say with 100% certainty that using money to feed hungry children, to give life saving medicine to those in need, provide more money for education and researching how to fight infectious diseases WILL ABSOLUTELY help mankind.

Oh and BTW I would like for you to provide some proof that man was not supposed to stay on Earth.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Super duper serious.

1) The unknown/unexplored universe >>> unknown/unexplored parts of Earth. *Note* There are not enough ">" to make an accurate comparison there. The difference is unimaginable.

2) Diminishing return.

In the present day, how much useful knowledge/technology do we actually discover via the exploration of unknown/unexplored parts of the Earth? How much would we (or have we) if we explored space? Most of our important discoveries come in a lab and are not specific to Earth.

3) Humans have to transcend this planet to survive. Many things could go wrong.

1) Pure conjecture on your part

2) Really? How about silicon the second most abundant element on Earth? It is responsible for making all of our computers and most of our electronics work. It is an earth element. How can you be so certain that we will not discover a new element on Earth that will help mankind out tremendously? What if there is a new element that is waiting to be discovered in our oceans? Or at some unexplored area of the planet? These are possibilities. Not specific to Earth? Penicillin, DNA, fire, anitbiotics and written language are specific to Earth.

3) Please provide proof that we have to leave this planet. Yes things could go wrong but what makes you think any other planet will be safer?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Gotta see them coming.

We can see them coming from a great distance.

 

[Grand Vol]

We can see them coming from a great distance.

I'm glad your knowledge and experience in this matter is helping impart valuable insight on this discussion.

Please feel free to continue contributing your learned and rational thoughts on the matter.

 

[hog88]

I agree with you but there is no way you can say with any certainty that any more great technologies will be generated. I can say with 100% certainty that using money to feed hungry children, to give life saving medicine to those in need, provide more money for education and researching how to fight infectious diseases WILL ABSOLUTELY help mankind.

Oh and BTW I would like for you to provide some proof that man was not supposed to stay on Earth.

Want proof?

God gave man a mind, free will and a wondering spirit.

I'm sure there were people like you saying the same thing many many years ago. Man was supposed to stay in Africa, Europe, Asia ext ext

 

[CagleMtnVol]

We can see them coming from a great distance.

:lolabove:

Oh really? Didn't see this one coming! See the damage it caused now imagine had it hit a large city across the world.


[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UqrA007yZWQ[/youtube]


"Tiny" asteroid causes significant damage in Russia

"Tiny" asteroid causes significant damage in Russia

A 55-foot-wide meteor broke up over the country’s Ural region February 15, creating a shock wave of air pressure that collapsed buildings, shattered windows, and injured more than 1,200 people.

February 21, 2013, UPDATE:

According to the Ural Federal University, its scientists have found meteorites from the February 15 event, bringing them back to laboratories for analysis. According to the expedition leader Viktor Grokhovsky, a member of the Russian Academy of Sciences' committee on meteorites, the meteorites belong to the class of regular chondrites.

As for damage on the ground, according to the Russian Emergency Ministry, the shock wave from the meteoroid's disintegration broke windows in 2,962 buildings. Total damage covered 4,700 buildings and is estimated at more than 1 billion rubles ($33.2 million). In addition, 1,147 people applied for medical aid (including 259 children); 51 people (including 13 children) were hospitalized, only nine in moderately serious condition......

.

 

[AggieInTN]

I'm much for private companies making it profitable to do so themselves, not the government doing it just because.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I'm much for private companies making it profitable to do so themselves, not the government doing it just because.

Agreed.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Want proof?

God gave man a mind, free will and a wondering spirit.

I'm sure there were people like you saying the same thing many many years ago. Man was supposed to stay in Africa, Europe, Asia ext ext

Huge difference between exploring our own world and exploring space. Sorry but your statement is not proof. It's only opinion and conjecture.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

I'm glad your knowledge and experience in this matter is helping impart valuable insight on this discussion.

Please feel free to continue contributing your learned and rational thoughts on the matter.

Just stating my opinions in an opinion based thread. Just like you and everybody else. Sorry my opinion doesn't agree with yours. That's human nature. Deal with it. The fact is a lot of the NEO's (especially ones over one kilometer) have been discovered. In fact over 90% of them have already been found.

NEO Discovery Statistics

Continue with your condescending retorts though. Feel free to assume your opinions are any more accurate or better than anyone else's.

 

[Grand Vol]

Just stating my opinions in an opinion based thread. Just like you and everybody else. Sorry my opinion doesn't agree with yours. That's human nature. Deal with it. The fact is a lot of the NEO's (especially ones over one kilometer) have been discovered. In fact over 90% of them have already been found.

NEO Discovery Statistics

Continue with your condescending retorts though. Feel free to assume your opinions are any more accurate or better than anyone else's.

Here's the thing that you miss. We know about 90% of the known NEOs and PHAs. The Kuiper Belt, Scattered Disk and Oort Cloud are continually spitting things out that we may not have known about before. And a 10 KM asteroid/comet is enough to start an extinction level event. We do not have the resolution necessary to see every 10 KM rock out that far. We barely have a good understanding of objects beyond Neptune as it is and continue to discover objects. And finding an inbound object in that clutter, especially in the 10-50 KM range? We just don't have the proper detection capabilities.

Now how does this fit into space colonization? Easy enough. We get hit and the atmosphere is covered which will, not maybe, will cause mass death of plant and animal live. Some will live, sure, but it surely won't be the same afterwards. Now those living off this rock will have a fighting chance at continuing the human race. At least until the air clears and the expected nuclear winter subsides and the earth can be repopulated. Sure some of the population will survive, but on a Torino Scale 9 you have millions if not more lives lost. At a level 10 impact, you are looking at billions of lives lost.

Billions.

So yes, the future of the human race is out there beyond the atmosphere. We can explore our own planet all you want, but the fact remains that this planet will, not can, get struck by a major object again just like we've been hit in the past. The last was the K-T event 65 million years ago which killed 75% of the species at the time. It's infrequent, but it does happen. And furthermore, we have the technology today to possibly stop it but most certainly to survive it. Something the 90% of cataloged species on this planet that have gone extinct have never been able to do before. We can stop our own extinction.

We're going to get hit again. It's only a matter of time. And the more we know about the cosmos and either have the ability to alter the trajectory and/or have colonies off world that can survive. Or if one of the super volcanoes in he world happened to erupt. Or a global pandemic. Any number of reasons for people to be off this planet if/when they happen.

There's plenty of time to discover all the neat things about our own planet when we can make sure humanity will survive.

 

[MercyPercy]

BOT's just skurt they're gonna find space Jesus.

 

[hog88]

Huge difference between exploring our own world and exploring space. Sorry but your statement is not proof. It's only opinion and conjecture.

And you are closed minded.

 

[WooPigSooie]

Huge difference between exploring our own world and exploring space. Sorry but your statement is not proof. It's only opinion and conjecture.

There is no difference whatsoever and this statement is nonsense. Exploring our environment and pushing back the frontier of the unknown has always been something our species has done. Our solar neighborhood, our own solar system are just another part of our environment just like our continent, country, and state.

Environments can be hostile and it's best you know how they work and what they contain so that you may increase your chances of survival. One example that comes to mind are the native Americans. The first humans showed up in the Americas around 10,000 b.c.e. They really were not all that much different from the rest of the world in terms of tool making and social organization at that time.

Fast-forward 11,000 years and the natives are being wiped out by a race of humans that are so far advanced, they may as well have been little green men in flying saucers.

The societies in the Americas were never able to organize themselves is such a manner that they could meet their most basic needs so efficiently that they would have the luxury of leisure time so that they may study the natural world around them.. which would have ultimately led to more advanced tools for exploration and eventually integration with the rest of the world.

Perhaps had smaller populations of natives been introduced to diseases, they could have survived their own black plague and developed immune systems capable of dealing with total global integration.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Here's the thing that you miss. We know about 90% of the known NEOs and PHAs. The Kuiper Belt, Scattered Disk and Oort Cloud are continually spitting things out that we may not have known about before. And a 10 KM asteroid/comet is enough to start an extinction level event. We do not have the resolution necessary to see every 10 KM rock out that far. We barely have a good understanding of objects beyond Neptune as it is and continue to discover objects. And finding an inbound object in that clutter, especially in the 10-50 KM range? We just don't have the proper detection capabilities.

Now how does this fit into space colonization? Easy enough. We get hit and the atmosphere is covered which will, not maybe, will cause mass death of plant and animal live. Some will live, sure, but it surely won't be the same afterwards. Now those living off this rock will have a fighting chance at continuing the human race. At least until the air clears and the expected nuclear winter subsides and the earth can be repopulated. Sure some of the population will survive, but on a Torino Scale 9 you have millions if not more lives lost. At a level 10 impact, you are looking at billions of lives lost.

Billions.

So yes, the future of the human race is out there beyond the atmosphere. We can explore our own planet all you want, but the fact remains that this planet will, not can, get struck by a major object again just like we've been hit in the past. The last was the K-T event 65 million years ago which killed 75% of the species at the time. It's infrequent, but it does happen. And furthermore, we have the technology today to possibly stop it but most certainly to survive it. Something the 90% of cataloged species on this planet that have gone extinct have never been able to do before. We can stop our own extinction.

We're going to get hit again. It's only a matter of time. And the more we know about the cosmos and either have the ability to alter the trajectory and/or have colonies off world that can survive. Or if one of the super volcanoes in he world happened to erupt. Or a global pandemic. Any number of reasons for people to be off this planet if/when they happen.

There's plenty of time to discover all the neat things about our own planet when we can make sure humanity will survive.

We are talking about "climate change" right?..

 

[Grand Vol]

We are talking about "climate change" right?..

lulz

 

[Grand Vol]

Related (and interesting article)

Russia Eyes Soyuz Upgrades for Mission Around the Moon

Space Adventures' captive market is in tourist flights to low Earth orbit a few hundred miles above Earth, and Shelley said the supply of seats to the International Space Station is poised to go up in the next few years.

Even with the $52 million price tag per seat, tourists are paying less than NASA astronauts to get to the space station. Shelley said that is because NASA buys more training and other services than a civilian passenger needs.

Perhaps NASA should take notice and start contracting through these guys and save some bucks.