Space Exploration

Are NASA's future missions and budget justified?

  • It's worth the time and expenditures

    Votes: 222 66.1%

  • Complete waste of money

    Votes: 41 12.2%

  • We need to explore, but not at the current cost

    Votes: 73 21.7%
  • Total voters
    336
#3,377
#3,377
CagleMtnVol said:
With the news from NASA could we see Elon & SpaceX change course over the next couple of months and put more focus on the Moon version of Starship?
Click to expand...

I don’t think it will require much of a change in focus; they will need to develop Starship tanker variants regardless, a cargo Starship version is in play for the Commercial Lunar resupply contract and I assume the life support for the Lunar Starship will be usable in the Mars bound Starships. I think there is actually so much overlap this may actually help the Mars effort because very little extra would be required to send the first unmanned Starships to Mars, hopefully in 2024.
 
#3,378
#3,378
CagleMtnVol said:
I've seen folks online ask where this leaves SLS & Orion but something has to get to people to Lunar orbit and currently a Falcon 9 with Crew Dragon doesn't have the power to do that. Could a Falcon Super Heavy maybe?

Perhaps a FH with a 2nd Stage booster making it a 3 stage rocket?🤔
Click to expand...

They were planning on using Falcon Heavy to send Dragon XL cargo variant to the Lunar Gateway so I assume they could send a Crew Dragon. I think before Dear Moon was slated for Starship the rich guy Maezawa was going to circle the moon on a Crew Dragon launched by Falcon Heavy.

I doubt Congress will give up SLS and Orion, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are quiet, unspoken backup plans that would utilize Crew Dragon and/or Starship. I mean Dear Moon is currently scheduled for 2023. Elon time for sure, but if anything slips significantly more with SLS they would have some options.
 
#3,379
#3,379
twoffo said:
I don’t think it will require much of a change in focus; they will need to develop Starship tanker variants regardless, a cargo Starship version is in play for the Commercial Lunar resupply contract and I assume the life support for the Lunar Starship will be usable in the Mars bound Starships. I think there is actually so much overlap this may actually help the Mars effort because very little extra would be required to send the first unmanned Starships to Mars, hopefully in 2024.
Click to expand...

There's also the possibility of a "Lunar Base" model of the Starship. Think about the fact it has massive amounts of space and could be easily modified for living quarters, science labs and whatever else they might like. Send one up to precision land and have it stay? Tends to make decent sense to me.

But yes, I'd bet most of the systems being used in the lunar lander will be compatible with the eventual Mars ship.
 
  • Like
Reactions: twoffo
#3,381
#3,381
twoffo said:
They were planning on using Falcon Heavy to send Dragon XL cargo variant to the Lunar Gateway so I assume they could send a Crew Dragon. I think before Dear Moon was slated for Starship the rich guy Maezawa was going to circle the moon on a Crew Dragon launched by Falcon Heavy.

I doubt Congress will give up SLS and Orion, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there are quiet, unspoken backup plans that would utilize Crew Dragon and/or Starship. I mean Dear Moon is currently scheduled for 2023. Elon time for sure, but if anything slips significantly more with SLS they would have some options.
Click to expand...

It's going to be crazy thinking they are going to spend $1 billion a pop on the SLS. The main difference is, the SpaceX lander is designed to go back and forth from the Earth to the Moon. There really is no conceivable mission for the Orion at this moment in time if that's the case. I mean, they could park the SpaceX lander at the Gateway and just use it for the trips up and down, but that seems really inefficient. (we are talking about the USG though lol)

Overall, as a heavy lift system, SLS might still have a place since there really isn't another rocket on the boards right now that could be modified to put that much weight up. (other than the Starship booster and it's only designed to toss that thing into orbit... at the moment)

I think eventually someone in NASA is going to snap and tell Congress it's been a $20 billion waste of money for something that has no clear purpose. Orion has no place, SLS other than being a heavy lift system has no place and the technology isn't groundbreaking enough to push any development of additional systems.
 
#3,382
#3,382
Grand Vol said:
I think eventually someone in NASA is going to snap and tell Congress it's been a $20 billion waste of money for something that has no clear purpose. Orion has no place, SLS other than being a heavy lift system has no place and the technology isn't groundbreaking enough to push any development of additional systems.
Click to expand...

If I’m one of the old space contractors like Boeing or Lockheed Martin I’d read the tea leaves and start planning on Starship transportable infrastructure for the Moon and Mars. As far as I know SpaceX has no current plans for the actual bases so they should have an easier time competing for that work. I’m sure their Congress critters would be happy to create a generously funded Congressional Moon Base program that could have tailor-made requirements to ensure the ‘right’ companies win.
 
#3,384
#3,384
Grand Vol said:
It's going to be crazy thinking they are going to spend $1 billion a pop on the SLS. The main difference is, the SpaceX lander is designed to go back and forth from the Earth to the Moon. There really is no conceivable mission for the Orion at this moment in time if that's the case. I mean, they could park the SpaceX lander at the Gateway and just use it for the trips up and down, but that seems really inefficient. (we are talking about the USG though lol)
Click to expand...
Incorrect the Lunar version of Starship will not have heat shielding or lots of other things like the flaps and wings or the same amount of Raptor engines. So it would not be able to come through Earths atmosphere.

IMO, the Lunar Starship will be sent to Gateway unmanned.

2021 Lunar Lander Rendering
20210419_000201.jpg

What you say is correct as I understand it the Lunar lander version will only be used as a shuttle between Gateway and the service.

Overall, as a heavy lift system, SLS might still have a place since there really isn't another rocket on the boards right now that could be modified to put that much weight up. (other than the Starship booster and it's only designed to toss that thing into orbit... at the moment)

I think eventually someone in NASA is going to snap and tell Congress it's been a $20 billion waste of money for something that has no clear purpose. Orion has no place, SLS other than being a heavy lift system has no place and the technology isn't groundbreaking enough to push any development of additional systems.
Click to expand...

Like I said in my post earlier SLS is still useful at least short term in sending Orion & Astronauts. Unless they can modify a Falcon Heavy to launch Crew Dragon into Lunar Orbit.
 
#3,385
#3,385
CagleMtnVol said:
Incorrect the Lunar version of Starship will not have heat shielding or lots of other things like the flaps and wings or the same amount of Raptor engines. So it would not be able to come through Earths atmosphere.

IMO, the Lunar Starship will be sent to Gateway unmanned.

What you say is correct as I understand it the Lunar lander version will only be used as a shuttle between Gateway and the service.

Like I said in my post earlier SLS is still useful at least short term in sending Orion & Astronauts. Unless they can modify a Falcon Heavy to launch Crew Dragon into Lunar Orbit.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was going to be the reentry craft on the earth return, but everything promo wise SpaceX has put out has shown the lander leaving from Earth orbit and heading to the moon and back to earth again. I'm well aware it can't reenter earth's atmosphere and I noticed a long time ago it didn't have heat shielding, thank you.

SLS isn't going to be useful in sending astronauts back and forth. Namely because the SLS hasn't even gotten off the ground yet and at a billion dollars a pop it's not going to fly well with the budget office. It's going to be far easier (and cheaper) to human rate the Falcon Heavy for such a mission in the long run. Of course, politics will probably rear its ugly head and they'll use it anyway, but if they want to make a landing by 2024, they better start looking at other ways than the SLS and Orion.
 
#3,386
#3,386
CagleMtnVol said:
Incorrect the Lunar version of Starship will not have heat shielding or lots of other things like the flaps and wings or the same amount of Raptor engines. So it would not be able to come through Earths atmosphere.

IMO, the Lunar Starship will be sent to Gateway unmanned.

2021 Lunar Lander Rendering
View attachment 363175

What you say is correct as I understand it the Lunar lander version will only be used as a shuttle between Gateway and the service.



Like I said in my post earlier SLS is still useful at least short term in sending Orion & Astronauts. Unless they can modify a Falcon Heavy to launch Crew Dragon into Lunar Orbit.
Click to expand...
It won't return to earth's atmosphere, but it will return to earth orbit for refueling.

If I understand the mission architecture correctly, Artemis/Orion will be what takes astronauts to Gateway. They will then transfer to Starship (which will already be docked to Gateway) to land on the surface.
 
#3,387
#3,387
Grand Vol said:
I didn't say it was going to be the reentry craft on the earth return, but everything promo wise SpaceX has put out has shown the lander leaving from Earth orbit and heading to the moon and back to earth again. I'm well aware it can't reenter earth's atmosphere and I noticed a long time ago it didn't have heat shielding, thank you.

SLS isn't going to be useful in sending astronauts back and forth. Namely because the SLS hasn't even gotten off the ground yet and at a billion dollars a pop it's not going to fly well with the budget office. It's going to be far easier (and cheaper) to human rate the Falcon Heavy for such a mission in the long run. Of course, politics will probably rear its ugly head and they'll use it anyway, but if they want to make a landing by 2024, they better start looking at other ways than the SLS and Orion.
Click to expand...
Actually, I'm not so sure if it would be cheaper to use Falcon Heavy. That means that they would have to either design a new capsule or heavily upgrade Dragon for deep space missions (upgrade heatshield, life support systems, electrical energy systems, etc). Never mind the fact that Artemis already has many billions of dollars of R&D and infrastructure into it so abandoning that would be really, really costly. IIRC, Artemis I is supposed to launch around the end of this year so we'll see how that goes.

If NASA had started with Falcon Heavy to begin with I agree that it undoubtedly would have been much cheaper than going for SLS.

At this point, I think the 2024 deadline is pretty much dead unfortunately due to NASA (Specifically HLS) being so heavily underfunded and Jim Bridenstein (who heavily pushed for the 2024 deadline) stepping down.
 
#3,391
#3,391
Matt2496 said:
Actually, I'm not so sure if it would be cheaper to use Falcon Heavy. That means that they would have to either design a new capsule or heavily upgrade Dragon for deep space missions (upgrade heatshield, life support systems, electrical energy systems, etc). Never mind the fact that Artemis already has many billions of dollars of R&D and infrastructure into it so abandoning that would be really, really costly. IIRC, Artemis I is supposed to launch around the end of this year so we'll see how that goes.

If NASA had started with Falcon Heavy to begin with I agree that it undoubtedly would have been much cheaper than going for SLS.

At this point, I think the 2024 deadline is pretty much dead unfortunately due to NASA (Specifically HLS) being so heavily underfunded and Jim Bridenstein (who heavily pushed for the 2024 deadline) stepping down.
Click to expand...

I would assume SpaceX has or had plans for a kind of lunar capable crew Dragon, though I'm not sure the Draco engines would have the necessary sustained Delta V for a burn out of lunar orbit. If memory serves, the original "moon shot" they planned a free return trajectory. So, you're probably right it would need significant upgrades.

But then again, would it cost $20 billion for the upgrades? Lol
 
#3,393
#3,393
So while doing some insomnia late night YouTubing I was watching another video on the SpaceX being awarded the Lunar lander they dropped this nugget I hadn't heard.

Apparently NASA has scrapped their 3rd Generation EVA Suits that they had been working on for several years in plans for Artemis.

They will instead put the next generation suits out for competition like the Lunar Lander. I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX wins this as well.



 
  • Like
Reactions: twoffo
#3,397
#3,397
CagleMtnVol said:
So while doing some insomnia late night YouTubing I was watching another video on the SpaceX being awarded the Lunar lander they dropped this nugget I hadn't heard.

Apparently NASA has scrapped their 3rd Generation EVA Suits that they had been working on for several years in plans for Artemis.

They will instead put the next generation suits out for competition like the Lunar Lander. I wouldn't be surprised if SpaceX wins this as well.



Click to expand...

Have they developed suits for pregnancy?
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top