Space Exploration

Are NASA's future missions and budget justified?

  • It's worth the time and expenditures

    Votes: 218 65.7%

  • Complete waste of money

    Votes: 41 12.3%

  • We need to explore, but not at the current cost

    Votes: 73 22.0%
  • Total voters
    332
#4,901
#4,901
OrangeTsar said:
Also, Dragon is not designed to leave earth orbit and is definitely not designed for the 25000 mph re-entry from lunar return (as opposed to the 17,500 mph from earth orbit). Not that SpaceX couldn’t modify it but the tests and certifications required would be very expensive and time consuming
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I think it was one of those "we want to do this" kinda things.
 
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#4,902
#4,902
OrangeTsar said:
Also, Dragon is not designed to leave earth orbit and is definitely not designed for the 25000 mph re-entry from lunar return (as opposed to the 17,500 mph from earth orbit). Not that SpaceX couldn’t modify it but the tests and certifications required would be very expensive and time consuming
Click to expand...

Also, I'm wondering if the Draco rockets would have had enough thrust to slow the craft back into an earth orbit? I'm pretty sure that's what they are/were proposing with the Starship at one point...

Of course, those Raptor engines are a bit bigger than the Draco lol
 
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#4,903
#4,903
Grand Vol said:
Also, I'm wondering if the Draco rockets would have had enough thrust to slow the craft back into an earth orbit? I'm pretty sure that's what they are/were proposing with the Starship at one point...

Of course, those Raptor engines are a bit bigger than the Draco lol
Click to expand...
The Apollo missions never did any burns with the service module to slow down into earth orbit on returning from the moon. The extra fuel requirements would have been prohibitive. SpaceX would probably do the same profile, basically free fall all the way from the moon and hit the atmosphere at seven miles a second. That’s why the Apollo lunar capsules in museums are all toasty brown while the orbital ones like from Skylab are still mostly silver
 
#4,905
#4,905
OrangeTsar said:
The Apollo missions never did any burns with the service module to slow down into earth orbit on returning from the moon. The extra fuel requirements would have been prohibitive. SpaceX would probably do the same profile, basically free fall all the way from the moon and hit the atmosphere at seven miles a second. That’s why the Apollo lunar capsules in museums are all toasty brown while the orbital ones like from Skylab are still mostly silver
Click to expand...

The Apollo missions never needed to do such a thing either. It was pretty much get them there and get them home. Safely albeit.

But with space becoming more commercialized, someone is going to put up an orbital hotel before long and someone is going to offer "excursions" around the moon. Someone (SpaceX probably) is going to figure out how to put a craft back into orbit to drop off the pax. Seems like Starship was designed for such s a thing. Or could be modified for it.

I still think Bigelow got out before his dream was realized and should have gotten backing from SpaceX. Those BA-330 modules were screaming for space tourism.
 
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#4,906
#4,906
Anybody seen that new CCP solid fuel booster? Supposed to lift 100 tons.
How we looking on rocket motors? I hope we aren't relying on Russian motors anymore since they cut us off.
I see the Raptor motor but thought we had something bigger. They gonna always use like 31 of these?
 
#4,907
#4,907
Grand Vol said:
The Apollo missions never needed to do such a thing either. It was pretty much get them there and get them home. Safely albeit.

But with space becoming more commercialized, someone is going to put up an orbital hotel before long and someone is going to offer "excursions" around the moon. Someone (SpaceX probably) is going to figure out how to put a craft back into orbit to drop off the pax. Seems like Starship was designed for such s a thing. Or could be modified for it.

I still think Bigelow got out before his dream was realized and should have gotten backing from SpaceX. Those BA-330 modules were screaming for space tourism.
Click to expand...
Starship could definitely carry enough fuel to enter earth orbit on a lunar return trajectory. Dragon probably not. The deceleration required is quite substantial. I do. It have it in meters per second; but the Apollo missions required about a 4 and a half minute burn from a 250,000 pound thrust J-2 engine to get to translunar velocity on the outbound leg
 
#4,908
#4,908
Orangeburst said:
Anybody seen that new CCP solid fuel booster? Supposed to lift 100 tons.
How we looking on rocket motors? I hope we aren't relying on Russian motors anymore since they cut us off.
I see the Raptor motor but thought we had something bigger. They gonna always use like 31 of these?
Click to expand...
Boy this is a big topic that could last a while. Short version is that the term motor is reserved for solid fuel and engine is the term for liquid fueled like the Raptor. Yes the F-1 was many times more powerful than a Raptor (about 3x) but it was much less fuel efficient and wasn’t really designed for reuse. Plus it required kerosene whereas Elon wanted methane, which can be made on mars allowing make your own fuel.
 
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#4,909
#4,909
OrangeTsar said:
Boy this is a big topic that could last a while. Short version is that the term motor is reserved for solid fuel and engine is the term for liquid fueled like the Raptor. Yes the F-1 was many times more powerful than a Raptor (about 3x) but it was much less fuel efficient and wasn’t really designed for reuse. Plus it required kerosene whereas Elon wanted methane, which can be made on mars allowing make your own fuel.
Click to expand...

I read this last night..very informative but I wasn't sure who made which engine
My career was in pumps and compressors, so I was able to follow along.

Rocket Engine Cycles
 
#4,910
#4,910
Orangeburst said:
I read this last night..very informative but I wasn't sure who made which engine
My career was in pumps and compressors, so I was able to follow along.

Rocket Engine Cycles
Click to expand...
Rocket plumbing is fascinating. The F-1 had a turbopump for the ages. Von Braun and his team didn’t have access to the modern advanced alloys to enable full flow cycle engines; So they focused on the most honkingly powerful turbopumps imaginable. The F-1 will never be equated on that front. A company in Huntsville trying to reverse engineer and build a new F1 turbopump a few years back in hopes of using a new and improved F1 for SLS; but ATK (thiakol) won the contract using the old solid side boosters. A shame really. I wanted to see the F1 brought back to life
 
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#4,913
#4,913
OrangeTsar said:
Here is a fun little video on Von Braun‘s first turbopump which is the granddaddy of them all
Click to expand...


I was part of the start up at the Boeing Delta IV facility in Decatur in the late 90's. It was super cool. They used our vacuum pumps to hold the rocket skins as they cut them.
 
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#4,914
#4,914
Orangeburst said:
I was part of the start up at the Boeing Delta IV facility in Decatur in the late 90's. It was super cool. They used our vacuum pumps to hold the rocket skins as they cut them.
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I am jealous. You were living the dream!
I thought about applying for an IT job with SpaceX shortly after they started up but didn’t want to move to California. I sometimes wonder what might have been
 
#4,915
#4,915
OrangeTsar said:
I am jealous. You were living the dream!
I thought about applying for an IT job with SpaceX shortly after they started up but didn’t want to move to California. I sometimes wonder what might have been
Click to expand...

You'd be in Texas by now lol

In all honesty, there are mixed reviews about working for SpaceX. It's pretty high intensity work with major burnout from what I've seen. It may have settled down some, but Elon is a workaholic and a demanding boss.

Still would be exciting to be a part of that.
 
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#4,916
#4,916
Grand Vol said:
You'd be in Texas by now lol

In all honesty, there are mixed reviews about working for SpaceX. It's pretty high intensity work with major burnout from what I've seen. It may have settled down some, but Elon is a workaholic and a demanding boss.

Still would be exciting to be a part of that.
Click to expand...
I think most of their IT staff is still in Hawthorne California. Texas is mostly the manufacturing
 
#4,920
#4,920
PKT_VOL said:
Jesus. For comparison, the Saturn V had 7.750 million pounds of thrust.
Click to expand...
Even more unbelievable, it took us 50 years to equal it. Last Saturn V launched in 1973. Until SLS launch late last year, we never even came close. Now Starship has blown it out of the water.
But it is a national disgrace that we let our heavy launch capability basically disappear FOR HALF A CENTURY 😡
 
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