Space Exploration

Are NASA's future missions and budget justified?

  • It's worth the time and expenditures

    Votes: 223 66.0%

  • Complete waste of money

    Votes: 41 12.1%

  • We need to explore, but not at the current cost

    Votes: 74 21.9%
  • Total voters
    338
#159
#159
AirVol said:
Did someone say "Air" ?
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Hey, actually, I've been meaning to ask you: did you actually pilot or man an AC-130 or do you just like that as your avatar? I've always had a special place in my heart for the gunship.
 
#160
#160
volprof said:
Yep. And did you perform/experience/hear about any hot sauce hazing? :)
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No sir, never heard of it. We never hurt anyone physically, just mentally.

volprof said:
Hey, actually, I've been meaning to ask you: did you actually pilot or man an AC-130 or do you just like that as your avatar? I've always had a special place in my heart for the gunship.
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Aircraft maintainer to loadmaster. Worked on a gunship once, broke during transient. I've seen it perform at night with NVG's, pretty spooky,lol...yeah spooky.
 
#161
#161
AirVol said:
No sir, never heard of it. We never hurt anyone physically, just mentally.



Aircraft maintainer to loadmaster. Worked on a gunship once, broke during transient. I've seen it perform at night with NVG's, pretty spooky,lol...yeah spooky.
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I'd imagine so. So you were basically a mechanic/loader (weapons, gear, etc.) and possibly an engineer?
 
#162
#162
volprof said:
I'd imagine so. So you were basically a mechanic/loader (weapons, gear, etc.) and possibly an engineer?
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Aircrew. Did airdrops, transported cargo, personnel airdrops, troops. Supported airshows, flybys for races and games. :salute:
 
#163
#163
AirVol said:
Aircrew. Did airdrops, transported cargo, personnel airdrops, troops. Supported airshows, flybys for races and games. :salute:
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Oh, okay, I've got it now. As you can tell, my Air Force terminology is not completely up to snuff.
 
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#164
#164
AirVol said:
No sir, never heard of it. We never hurt anyone physically, just mentally.



Aircraft maintainer to loadmaster. Worked on a gunship once, broke during transient. I've seen it perform at night with NVG's, pretty spooky,lol...yeah spooky.
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We have a 130 here that does touch and go's all day long. Well this past week I've been working night shift milling up asphalt on a busy highway that runs through ft smith, well last night that 130 was out doing its thing. It was even cooler at night watching it. Had some light blue/green lights shining on it.

Sadly all of our 188th will be gone this month for some drones. :(
 
#165
#165
Grand Vol said:
It's called being a world leader. Sure, the Soyuz spacecraft has a good record, but the fact we have the largest economy in the world, the most innovative scientists and our space program has typically been head and shoulders above the rest of the world says we've fallen hard when we have to depend on another government just to get our people into space. And the fact that politics has played a huge role in not developing follow on spacecraft to the Shuttle in a timely fashion speaks volumes about our priorities.

Yes, that's embarrassing on a national level.
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It's hard to be a world leader when we do t have one for our own country.
 
#166
#166
volprof said:
Oh, okay, I've got it now. As you can tell, my Air Force terminology is not completely up to snuff.
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Don't let him fool you. He was a glorified flight attendant.

Probably got counseled more than once over his skirt length.
 
#167
#167
Obsessed said:
We have a 130 here that does touch and go's all day long. Well this past week I've been working night shift milling up asphalt on a busy highway that runs through ft smith, well last night that 130 was out doing its thing. It was even cooler at night watching it. Had some light blue/green lights shining on it.

Sadly all of our 188th will be gone this month for some drones. :(
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You havent lived until you have done a combat landing in a 130
 
#169
#169
Grand Vol said:
It's called being a world leader. Sure, the Soyuz spacecraft has a good record, but the fact we have the largest economy in the world, the most innovative scientists and our space program has typically been head and shoulders above the rest of the world says we've fallen hard when we have to depend on another government just to get our people into space. And the fact that politics has played a huge role in not developing follow on spacecraft to the Shuttle in a timely fashion speaks volumes about our priorities.

Yes, that's embarrassing on a national level.
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Our space program has been embarrassing from the beginning. Technically, it began at the end of WWII, when we swooped in and took the Nazi missile scientists (many of whom were war criminal who knowingly working concentration camp slave labor in inhumane conditions), covered up their history, made them US citizens, and put them to work where they left off after designing the missiles that destroyed Britain.

Then, we formed NASA around them and their technology. One of them actually headed NASA until some time in the 70s. So, we depended on the Nazis to get our men into space from the very beginning.

If our space program has been generally head and shoulders above the rest of the world's, it's because we rescued another country's mad scientists from the war criminal trials.

Our 'largest economy in the world' has been greatly an economy of debt to the rest of the world, and the piper must be paid eventually.

It's not a national-level embarrassment. It's a global level embarrassment.
 
#170
#170
Orange_Crush said:
Our space program has been embarrassing from the beginning. Technically, it began at the end of WWII, when we swooped in and took the Nazi missile scientists (many of whom were war criminal who knowingly working concentration camp slave labor in inhumane conditions), covered up their history, made them US citizens, and put them to work where they left off after designing the missiles that destroyed Britain.

Then, we formed NASA around them and their technology. One of them actually headed NASA until some time in the 70s. So, we depended on the Nazis to get our men into space from the very beginning.

If our space program has been generally head and shoulders above the rest of the world's, it's because we rescued another country's mad scientists from the war criminal trials.

Our 'largest economy in the world' has been greatly an economy of debt to the rest of the world, and the piper must be paid eventually.

It's not a national-level embarrassment. It's a global level embarrassment.
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You are referring to "Operation Paperclip" and I think you have to keep in mind "the greater good". Yes, Von Braun and most of the scientists that came to this country were "menaces to the Allied Forces", but their work with rocket technology and eventually space exploration catapulted this country into the super power that it is today. Without those scientists and their work, this country would not have tasted the economic wealth and prosperity that came. Von Braun is a legend in this part of the country and is very well respected for his work and his role in this community.

Just a little side note as well: My mother who worked with Von Braun and Dorothy Holloway (Condredge's Mom) always tells me stories about Von Braun and what an amazing man he was. I get that he was part of Nazi Germany, but at that time in that country, you were either a part of it or you were put to death.
 
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#171
#171
BearCat204 said:
You are referring to "Operation Paperclip" and I think you have to keep in mind "the greater good". Yes, Von Braun and most of the scientists that came to this country were "menaces to the Allied Forces", but their work with rocket technology and eventually space exploration catapulted this country into the super power that it is today. Without those scientists and their work, this country would not have tasted the economic wealth and prosperity that came. Von Braun is a legend in this part of the country and is very well respected for his work and his role in this community.

Just a little side note as well: My mother who worked with Von Braun and Dorothy Holloway (Condredge's Mom) always tells me stories about Von Braun and what an amazing man he was. I get that he was part of Nazi Germany, but at that time in that country, you were either a part of it or you were put to death.
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:good!: Fascinating stuff right there. I'd like to hear more stories that were told you about Von Braun.
 
#172
#172
BearCat204 said:
You are referring to "Operation Paperclip" and I think you have to keep in mind "the greater good". Yes, Von Braun and most of the scientists that came to this country were "menaces to the Allied Forces", but their work with rocket technology and eventually space exploration catapulted this country into the super power that it is today. Without those scientists and their work, this country would not have tasted the economic wealth and prosperity that came. Von Braun is a legend in this part of the country and is very well respected for his work and his role in this community.

Just a little side note as well: My mother who worked with Von Braun and Dorothy Holloway (Condredge's Mom) always tells me stories about Von Braun and what an amazing man he was. I get that he was part of Nazi Germany, but at that time in that country, you were either a part of it or you were put to death.
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Von Braun may have been complicit in the Nazi death camp slave labor treatment. But he was an SS Major! Historical documents show him visiting the camp where 25,000 concentration camp slave workers (including US POWs) for his missile project died. Historical documents show him attending the meetings that decided to round up people off the street for forced labor.

Go research Arthur Rudolph and Kurt Waldheim.

Rudolph was one of many Nazi scientists who defected to the US to escape war criminal trials. They had documents proving that he was lobbying for more death camp slave labor! He was given NASA's distinguished award in 1969. He led many initiatives in the American space race. He left the country in the 80s to escape the new US investigations into Nazi war criminals in America (a separate branch of the gov't, obviously).

You stated my points quite well.

Without those scientists and their work, this country would not have tasted the economic wealth and prosperity that came. Von Braun is a legend in this part of the country and is very well respected for his work and his role in this community.
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These men may have become great men. They may have been instrumental to 'the greater good'. It doesn't change the fact that the US space program was built on foreign expertise (namely Nazi war criminals) from the very beginning.

And what does it say that Nazi war criminals became legends in your part of the country? Or that the US gov't had to cover up their pasts to get them to that status? Or that NASA cut ties and shipped them off 35 years later when the gig was up and the truth came out? 'Greater good?' Maybe. Embarrassing? Definitely.

I'm not saying whether we should have done it or not. But I am pointing out that our space program hasn't so much "fallen" due to reliance on foreign technology. It was built on it!
 
#173
#173
Orange_Crush said:
Von Braun may have been complicit in the Nazi death camp slave labor treatment. But he was an SS Major! Historical documents show him visiting the camp where 25,000 concentration camp slave workers (including US POWs) for his missile project died. Historical documents show him attending the meetings that decided to round up people off the street for forced labor.

Go research Arthur Rudolph and Kurt Waldheim.

Rudolph was one of many Nazi scientists who defected to the US to escape war criminal trials. They had documents proving that he was lobbying for more death camp slave labor! He was given NASA's distinguished award in 1969. He led many initiatives in the American space race. He left the country in the 80s to escape the new US investigations into Nazi war criminals in America (a separate branch of the gov't, obviously).

You stated my points quite well.



These men may have become great men. They may have been instrumental to 'the greater good'. It doesn't change the fact that the US space program was built on foreign expertise (namely Nazi war criminals) from the very beginning.

And what does it say that Nazi war criminals became legends in your part of the country? Or that the US gov't had to cover up their pasts to get them to that status? Or that NASA cut ties and shipped them off 35 years later when the gig was up and the truth came out? 'Greater good?' Maybe. Embarrassing? Definitely.

I'm not saying whether we should have done it or not. But I am pointing out that our space program hasn't so much "fallen" due to reliance on foreign technology. It was built on it!
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I agree with most of your points, but I dont think you are completely accurate with your accounts on Von Braun. If you are living in Nazi Germany during that time and your talents have gotten the attention of Hitler, you are very limited in where you put your allegiance. I do like the fact that you left out that Von Braun was initially imprisoned by Hitler for espionage for failing to cooperate in the early 40's with moving the V-2 into military production.
 
#174
#174
BearCat204 said:
I agree with most of your points, but I dont think you are completely accurate with your accounts on Von Braun. If you are living in Nazi Germany during that time and your talents have gotten the attention of Hitler, you are very limited in where you put your allegiance. I do like the fact that you left out that Von Braun was initially imprisoned by Hitler for espionage for failing to cooperate in the early 40's with moving the V-2 into military production.
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I have my opinions about what a person should have done in those circumstances. Not having walked in their shoes, I can't say what I would have done in those circumstances.

I had not recalled his imprisonment. But that in no way changed the fact that he participated. As a matter of fact, it shows that he participated in what his conscience knew to be wrong.

Now, again... I can't say what I would have had the strength to do in his shoes. But "would" and "ought" are two different things. He did what he did.

And again... I didn't initially post this as a moral rant. It was to make the points that the space program was a a US embarrassment that relied on foreign intellect from the very beginning.

:hi:
 
#175
#175
Orange_Crush said:
I have my opinions about what a person should have done in those circumstances. Not having walked in their shoes, I can't say what I would have done in those circumstances.

I had not recalled his imprisonment. But that in no way changed the fact that he participated. As a matter of fact, it shows that he participated in what his conscience knew to be wrong.

Now, again... I can't say what I would have had the strength to do in his shoes. But "would" and "ought" are two different things. He did what he did.

And again... I didn't initially post this as a moral rant. It was to make the points that the space program was a a US embarrassment that relied on foreign intellect from the very beginning.

:hi:
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I agree, but also very happy with the result. Also, space exploration/rocket engineering isnt the only thing that this country has had to rely on from foreign intellect.........its what makes this country great, we'll take all the good stuff from your country and make it ours. 'Merica
 
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