Star Watching (merged)

#626
#626
KoachKrab127 said:
Okay, if you'd rather have players who will get arrested, quit the team, or be a complete bust, that's your thing, not mine.
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Since when did more stars next to someone's name make them more likely to get in trouble? Oh, that's right, never. A good portion of the guys on my list didn't even make a roster for us because they didn't qualify. Plenty of others quit.

I'm not saying Dooley's class will win a national championship. I'm saying I'm sick of getting my hopes up about hyped recruits and then having them flake out on us.

I'm not going to worry about recruits, all I care about is the result on the field. And since most of our 4-5 star recruits have not worked out well lately, maybe the opposite will. We will just have to wait and see.
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Yeah, much better to have low expectations and completely suck. That's where the real fun is.
 
#628
#628
VKAman said:
Since when did more stars next to someone's name make them more likely to get in trouble? Oh, that's right, never. A good portion of the guys on my list didn't even make a roster for us because they didn't qualify. Plenty of others quit.



Yeah, much better to have low expectations and completely suck. That's where the real fun is.
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Well, that's exactly what's been happening with Tennessee the past 5 years.
 
#629
#629
sjt18 said:
Fowlkes is still around and developing. Bohannon played and was praised by CMK last year. Bartholomew is in the two deep right now. Anderson played. Cory Hall was originally given 4* but was downgraded after going to JUCO. Stephens had the talent to start in the SEC. Wardlow played and contributed on ST's. Kelly plays baseball. Several other guys there never made it to campus.

Your list has alot of questionable insertions.
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No, you just consider a career backup and special teams player a "solid contributor" when for me, that's not doing much. Bartholomew is in the two-deep because we don't have any tight ends. Nick Stephens caused us to lose to freaking Wyoming. And you act like players not even making it to campus somehow contradicts my point. They didn't contribute at all.

You really want to argue about this? None of those people started a single game. Except Stephens, and he sucked so bad he couldn't beat out two newcomers this year.
 
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#631
#631
VKAman said:
How many 2-3*s were "GREAT?"
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You set the bar low when you included Bolden.

Dan Williams, Dennis Rogan, Austin Rogers, Josh Briscoe, Kevin Cooper, Dan Williams, Nick Reviez, King, Frazier, Inky Johnson, both Cottams, Stocker, Denarius Moore, Arian Foster, Lamarcus Thompson, Gerald Williams, Vlad Richard, Montori Hughes, Austin Johnson, Lathers, Chris Brown, Elix Wilson, Ryan Karl, Ramon Foster, Anthony Parker, Antonio Reynolds,...
 
#632
#632
sjt18 said:
You set the bar low when you included Bolden.

Dan Williams, Dennis Rogan, Austin Rogers, Josh Briscoe, Kevin Cooper, Dan Williams, Nick Reviez, King, Frazier, Inky Johnson, both Cottams, Stocker, Denarius Moore, Arian Foster, Lamarcus Thompson, Gerald Williams, Vlad Richard, Montori Hughes, Austin Johnson, Lathers, Chris Brown, Elix Wilson, Ryan Karl, Ramon Foster, Anthony Parker, Antonio Reynolds,...
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This is what happens when you enter a conversation late, reply immediately, and completely skip nearly the entire discussion.
 
#633
#633
VKAman said:
No, you just consider a career backup and special teams player a "solid contributor" when for me, that's not doing much. Bartholomew is in the two-deep because we don't have any tight ends. Nick Stephens caused us to lose to freaking Wyoming. And you act like players not even making it to campus somehow contradicts my point. They didn't contribute at all.

You really want to argue about this? None of those people started a single game. Except Stephens, and he sucked so bad he couldn't beat out two newcomers this year.
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EJAW, Holbert, Mapu, Todd Cox, Raymond Henderson, Andre Mathis, Malcolm Rawls, Slick Shelley, Walter Fisher, Darius Myers, Brent Vinson,...

Busts and successes come from across the spectrum.
 
#635
#635
sjt18 said:
EJAW, Holbert, Mapu, Todd Cox, Raymond Henderson, Andre Mathis, Malcolm Rawls, Slick Shelley, Walter Fisher, Darius Myers, Brent Vinson,...

Busts and successes come from across the spectrum.
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There is no question that we've had some busts lately. This tends to happen when you have 3 different HCs in 3 seasons. How can you sit there and seriously say that you don't want higher rated players because of some busts.
 
#636
#636
You guys sound like the girl that keeps getting cheated on so they pick the guy that nobody wants cause he's safe.
 
#637
#637
I don't see what the big deal is. With 3 coaches in 3 years, I don't think beggars can be choosers.

We finished up strong last year, no reason to believe that Tennessee won't pick up more 4 & 5 star athaletes this year if we have a respectable season.
 
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#638
#638
Does anyone know, or even bothered to grasp, the process of how recruits get rated?
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#640
#640
RhodeIslandVol said:
Does anyone know, or even bothered to grasp, the process of how recruits get rated?
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It's a longer process than anyone on this message board uses, I assure you.

There are holes and flaws for sure, but it's the best available way to evaluate talent. Football is more difficult, but basketball is almost a science because there is so much more to base the evaluations on. They don't have combines for basketball recruits. They just play hundreds of games (AAU, high school, and even pick up games) and coaches and scouts can easily tell who the better players are because it's proven over and over where it counts. Lebron James, John Wall, Derrick Rose, etc were clearly NBA ready as a seniors (or even juniors in certain cases) in H.S. Can you really say that about Bryce Brown (#1 overall), Arthur Brown (#1 LB) or Jadeveon Clowney (current #1 overall)?

The biggest flaw in scouting is location. Small town guys and alot of kids from Hawaii get over-looked frequently. If a kid can't afford to go to combines, he's automatically at a lesser-advantage. You aren't gonna find many hidden gems in Miami or Houston.

But, again, if you look at BASKETBALL recruiting... the top 3 players are basically NBA draft picks being forced to wait an extra year. You can't look at it that way in football. It's just too difficult to judge it that way.

So... in essence... star ratings do matter. It just depends on if you expect a guarantee (as in basketball) or if you understand that in football recruiting it's more of a percentage game. If you have 25 five-star football recruits each year and 15 of them go pro... that's good odds. If you have 200 three-star recruits and 60 of them go pro.... that's when you have all these people calling out 3* players left and right because there's a much larger hat to pluck them out of. And there's infinite number of no star/not ranked guys. So for all the people who scream out MONTORI HUGHES, you would need to scream out about 3,000 names of unranked or 1*/2* guys that noone has or will ever hear about. Be logical.

Make sense?
 
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#641
#641
MrBamSeydu said:
It's a longer process than anyone on this message board uses, I assure you.
There are holes and flaws for sure, but it's the best available way to evaluate talent. Football is more difficult, but basketball is almost a science because there is so much more to base the evaluations on. They don't have combines for basketball recruits. They just play hundreds of games (AAU, high school, and even pick up games) and coaches and scouts can easily tell who the better players are because it's proven over and over where it counts. Lebron James, John Wall, Derrick Rose, etc were clearly NBA ready as a seniors (or even juniors in certain cases) in H.S. Can you really say that about Bryce Brown (#1 overall), Arthur Brown (#1 LB) or Jadeveon Clowney (current #1 overall)?
The biggest flaw in scouting is location. Small town guys and alot of kids from Hawaii get over-looked frequently. If a kid can't afford to go to combines, he's automatically at a less-advantage. You aren't gonna find many hidden gems in Miami or Houston.
But, again, if you look at BASKETBALL recruiting... the top 3 players are basically NBA draft picks being forced to wait an extra year. You can't look at it that way in football. It's just too difficult to judge it that way.
So... in essence... star ratings do matter. It just depends on if you expect a guarantee (as in basketball) or if you understand that in football recruiting it's more of a percentage game. If you have 20 five-star football recruits each year and 15 of them go pro... that's good odds. If you have 180 three-star recruits and 40 of them go pro.... that's when you have all these people calling out 3* players left and right because there's a much larger hat to pluck them out of.
Make sense?
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Mostly rhetorical on my part, but sure. Feel free to explain more.
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#642
#642
the only "2 star" player that was great for miami was ed reed..


even tho they didnt have rankings..his only other d-1 offer was tulane
 
#644
#644
miamicane said:
the only "2 star" player that was great for miami was ed reed..


even tho they didnt have rankings..his only other d-1 offer was tulane
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I meant recruits from the Miami area, not players for Miami.

He was from Louisiana which explains the Tulane offer.
 
#645
#645
yea..then i would say look at santana moss..he only caught 8 passes his senior year in high school and came in a track scholarship..

i see your point tho..those are exceptions..you cant live off your whole class being 2 stars..maybe one or two is fine
 
#646
#646
Right... it's all in the numbers. Anyone can pick out specific 5* busts or 2* NFL players. You have to look at it from a % standpoint. The odds of Da'Rick Rogers making it to the NFL are better than Tyler Maples when he came out of Maryville. That's just a fact. Could Rogers flop?? It's possible. I don't see it happening. But Maples surely wasn't NFL-bound.

Nothing is guaranteed in football recruiting... you're just getting "odds" pretty much. Adrian Peterson, Hershel Walker, and Reggie Bush are about as close as you can get to NFL guarantees. All three were of the highest-caliber recruits. Just examples, but I cannot think of a 2* that I considered an NFL-lock coming out of h.s. and I don't think anyone would be able to say that.
 
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