Star Watching (merged)

#576
#576
You need a mix of guys. I posted a while back that our 3-stars have had a higher rate of success of production on the field vs. the 5-stars.

What you want is are solid 4-stars that don't have Paris Hilton disease, plus a good mix of 3-stars and even 2-stars that fit your system. Of course there are some great 5-stars but most of the time they are overrated.

These stars are just someone's opinion.

To me what makes and breaks you in the SEC is the DL, if you can't recruit or evaluate properly in the DL you are not going to be in the mix. It's the quality and quantity of DLmen that separates the SEC from the rest in CF. IMHO

Early evaluation before the recruiting services catches up is a key as well.
 
#577
#577
LSU-SIU said:
You need a mix of guys. I posted a while back that our 3-stars have had a higher rate of success of production on the field vs. the 5-stars.

What you want is are solid 4-stars that don't have Paris Hilton disease, plus a good mix of 3-stars and even 2-stars that fit your system. Of course there are some great 5-stars but most of the time they are overrated.

These stars are just someone's opinion.

To me what makes and breaks you in the SEC is the DL, if you can't recruit or evaluate properly in the DL you are not going to be in the mix. It's the quality and quantity of DLmen that separates the SEC from the rest in CF. IMHO

Early evaluation before the recruiting services catches up is a key as well.
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The point of the argument is that these stars have a direct coorelation to national championships and national championships are not someones opinion. These "opinions" are obviously all in all pretty good ones because they result in championships. Do stars mean everything..... no, but they DO mean something. You can't argue with the numbers.
 
#580
#580
govols182 said:
Past national champions and the key to the argument.

2005 Texas:

2002: 6 5*; 15 4*; 5 3*; 2 2*; total=28=3.89 avg *'s
2003: 1 5*; 11 4*; 6 3*; 0 2*; total=18=3.72 avg *'s
2004: 1 5*; 9 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=20=3.50 avg *'s
2005: 0 5*; 9 4*; 6 3*; 0 2*; total=15=3.60 avg *'s

Total: 8 5*; 44 4*; 26 3*; 3 2*; avg *'s=3.80

2006 Florida:

2003: 5 5*; 9 4*; 10 3*; 2 2*; total=26=3.65 avg *'s
2004: 1 5*; 11 4*; 10 3*; 1 2*; total=23=3.52 avg *'s
2005: 0 5*; 8 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=18=3.39 avg *'s
2006: 4 5*; 17 4*; 5 3*; 1 2*; total=27=3.89

Total: 10 5*'s; 45 4*'s; 34 3*; 5 2*'s; avg *'s=3.38

2007 LSU:

2004: 3 5*; 12 4*; 10 3*; 3 2*; total=28=3.54 avg
2005: 1 5*; 7 4*; 5 3*; 0 2*; total=13=3.69 avg
2006: 2 5*; 12 4*; 11 3*; 1 2*; total=26=3.50 avg
2007: 2 5*; 19 4*; 5 3*; 0 2*; total=26=3.88

Total: 8 5*; 50 4*; 31 3*; 3 2*; avg *'s=3.56

2008 Florida:

2005: 0 5*; 8 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=18=3.39 avg *'s
2006: 4 5*; 17 4*; 5 3*; 1 2*; total=27=3.89 avg *'s
2007: 4 5*; 16 4*; 7 3*; 0 2*; total=27=3.89 avg *'s
2008: 4 5*; 12 4*; 4 3*; 2 2*; total=22=3.82 avg *'s

Total: 12 5*; 53 4*; 25 3 *; 4 2*; avg *'s=3.65

2009 Alabama:

2006: 2 5*; 10 4*; 11 3*; 0 2*; total=23=3.61 avg *'s
2007: 0 5*; 10 4*; 12 3*; 3 2*; total=25=3.28 avg *'s
2008: 3 5*; 19 4 *; 8 3*; 2 2*; total=32=3.72 avg *'s
2009: 4 5*; 14 4*; 9 3*; 0 2*; total=27=3.81 avg *'s

Total: 9 5*; 53 4*; 40 3*; 5 2*; avg *'s=3.61

So to win the SEC your going to need talent. Yes, you have to get a couple of some 3*'s, but a class full of them won't allow us to compete.
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i agree. this is the reason we won't win another SEC title fo atleast 7-10 years in my opinion. never can tell dooley may be the best judge of talent ever, but looking at his winning percentage at LT, i don't think so.
 
#581
#581
Volfan76 said:
The point of the argument is that these stars have a direct coorelation to national championships and national championships are not someones opinion. These "opinions" are obviously all in all pretty good ones because they result in championships. Do stars mean everything..... no, but they DO mean something. You can't argue with the numbers.
Click to expand...

You do need horses, I don't think you need class after class of stallions. Hidden gems are the best. I would says if you can get a top 12 class year in and year out you have the talent, development from there, and luck.

Here is something I put together. I would argue Texas has made the most of their talent. Alabama is loading up of course but only in recent years. Georgia has had the most even recruiting, I believe all top 10 classes from 2002-2009.

Here is my stats on recruiting using Rivals stats from 2002-2009. Average class rankings(some rounding in there):

1.) USC 4.2 (NC 2004)
2.) Georgia 6.6
3.) LSU 6.7 (NC 2003/2007 and if it were not for bonehead Russell against AU and FL good chance for another in 2006... lol)
4.) UF 7.5 (NC 2006/2008)
5.) OK 7.7 (NC 2000*)

Other notables:
Florida State 8.7
Texas 9.5 (NC 2005)
Tennessee 10.6
Auburn 12.6
Ohio State 12.6 (NC 2002*)

* NCs before 2002 rivals class rankings started.

If you went by stars USC should have won every year, you do need some horse though, that point is taken.

In my opinion, dooley did a great job of holding the 2010 class together, heck you should have seen our 2005 after Saban left, I think really only 4-5 guys played any significant time.
 
#582
#582
Very very hard to recruit and win at LA Tech. All we can do is give CDD some time and see what happens. And this class is far from over.
 
#583
#583
you need a small amount of 5*, a decent amount of 3*, and a large amount of 4*.
Expect some of Dooley's 3*to become 4* by the end. We will get our fair share of good recruits.
 
#584
#584
Lots of updates to STAR rankings before signing day. I think we'll be happy with the amount of 4* we sign.
 
#585
#585
govols182 said:
Past national champions and the key to the argument.

2005 Texas:

2002: 6 5*; 15 4*; 5 3*; 2 2*; total=28=3.89 avg *'s
2003: 1 5*; 11 4*; 6 3*; 0 2*; total=18=3.72 avg *'s
2004: 1 5*; 9 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=20=3.50 avg *'s
2005: 0 5*; 9 4*; 6 3*; 0 2*; total=15=3.60 avg *'s

Total: 8 5*; 44 4*; 26 3*; 3 2*; avg *'s=3.80

2006 Florida:

2003: 5 5*; 9 4*; 10 3*; 2 2*; total=26=3.65 avg *'s
2004: 1 5*; 11 4*; 10 3*; 1 2*; total=23=3.52 avg *'s
2005: 0 5*; 8 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=18=3.39 avg *'s
2006: 4 5*; 17 4*; 5 3*; 1 2*; total=27=3.89

Total: 10 5*'s; 45 4*'s; 34 3*; 5 2*'s; avg *'s=3.38

2007 LSU:

2004: 3 5*; 12 4*; 10 3*; 3 2*; total=28=3.54 avg
2005: 1 5*; 7 4*; 5 3*; 0 2*; total=13=3.69 avg
2006: 2 5*; 12 4*; 11 3*; 1 2*; total=26=3.50 avg
2007: 2 5*; 19 4*; 5 3*; 0 2*; total=26=3.88

Total: 8 5*; 50 4*; 31 3*; 3 2*; avg *'s=3.56

2008 Florida:

2005: 0 5*; 8 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=18=3.39 avg *'s
2006: 4 5*; 17 4*; 5 3*; 1 2*; total=27=3.89 avg *'s
2007: 4 5*; 16 4*; 7 3*; 0 2*; total=27=3.89 avg *'s
2008: 4 5*; 12 4*; 4 3*; 2 2*; total=22=3.82 avg *'s

Total: 12 5*; 53 4*; 25 3 *; 4 2*; avg *'s=3.65

2009 Alabama:

2006: 2 5*; 10 4*; 11 3*; 0 2*; total=23=3.61 avg *'s
2007: 0 5*; 10 4*; 12 3*; 3 2*; total=25=3.28 avg *'s
2008: 3 5*; 19 4 *; 8 3*; 2 2*; total=32=3.72 avg *'s
2009: 4 5*; 14 4*; 9 3*; 0 2*; total=27=3.81 avg *'s

Total: 9 5*; 53 4*; 40 3*; 5 2*; avg *'s=3.61

So to win the SEC your going to need talent. Yes, you have to get a couple of some 3*'s, but a class full of them won't allow us to compete.
Click to expand...

I don't have the time to find the info, but what I would really like to know is how many of these 5* - 4*'s contributed to the N.C. team and how many were bust.

GBO
 
#586
#586
Not trying to be merge police, I certainly am against MP's, BUT shouldn't this get merged with the star thread?

I mean mine did, so let's be a little consistent mods.... ?
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#589
#589
govols182 said:
Past national champions and the key to the argument.

2005 Texas:

2002: 6 5*; 15 4*; 5 3*; 2 2*; total=28=3.89 avg *'s
2003: 1 5*; 11 4*; 6 3*; 0 2*; total=18=3.72 avg *'s
2004: 1 5*; 9 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=20=3.50 avg *'s
2005: 0 5*; 9 4*; 6 3*; 0 2*; total=15=3.60 avg *'s

Total: 8 5*; 44 4*; 26 3*; 3 2*; avg *'s=3.80

2006 Florida:

2003: 5 5*; 9 4*; 10 3*; 2 2*; total=26=3.65 avg *'s
2004: 1 5*; 11 4*; 10 3*; 1 2*; total=23=3.52 avg *'s
2005: 0 5*; 8 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=18=3.39 avg *'s
2006: 4 5*; 17 4*; 5 3*; 1 2*; total=27=3.89

Total: 10 5*'s; 45 4*'s; 34 3*; 5 2*'s; avg *'s=3.38

2007 LSU:

2004: 3 5*; 12 4*; 10 3*; 3 2*; total=28=3.54 avg
2005: 1 5*; 7 4*; 5 3*; 0 2*; total=13=3.69 avg
2006: 2 5*; 12 4*; 11 3*; 1 2*; total=26=3.50 avg
2007: 2 5*; 19 4*; 5 3*; 0 2*; total=26=3.88

Total: 8 5*; 50 4*; 31 3*; 3 2*; avg *'s=3.56

2008 Florida:

2005: 0 5*; 8 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=18=3.39 avg *'s
2006: 4 5*; 17 4*; 5 3*; 1 2*; total=27=3.89 avg *'s
2007: 4 5*; 16 4*; 7 3*; 0 2*; total=27=3.89 avg *'s
2008: 4 5*; 12 4*; 4 3*; 2 2*; total=22=3.82 avg *'s

Total: 12 5*; 53 4*; 25 3 *; 4 2*; avg *'s=3.65

2009 Alabama:

2006: 2 5*; 10 4*; 11 3*; 0 2*; total=23=3.61 avg *'s
2007: 0 5*; 10 4*; 12 3*; 3 2*; total=25=3.28 avg *'s
2008: 3 5*; 19 4 *; 8 3*; 2 2*; total=32=3.72 avg *'s
2009: 4 5*; 14 4*; 9 3*; 0 2*; total=27=3.81 avg *'s

Total: 9 5*; 53 4*; 40 3*; 5 2*; avg *'s=3.61

So to win the SEC your going to need talent. Yes, you have to get a couple of some 3*'s, but a class full of them won't allow us to compete.
Click to expand...

this is good. better would be stats for the guys on the field for those championship seasons.
 
#590
#590
I guarantee the majority of the 4* and 5* players played roles in the championships. I couldn't guarantee you that all the 2* and 3* guys did. That's the difference.

For every Daniel Brooks and Chris Donald, there's hundreds of 1* - 3* recruits keeping benches warm all across the country. Dan Williams is the exception, not the rule.
 
#591
#591
2006 Florida:

2003: 5 5*; 9 4*; 10 3*; 2 2*; total=26=3.65 avg *'s
2004: 1 5*; 11 4*; 10 3*; 1 2*; total=23=3.52 avg *'s
2005: 0 5*; 8 4*; 9 3*; 1 2*; total=18=3.39 avg *'s
2006: 4 5*; 17 4*; 5 3*; 1 2*; total=27=3.89

Total: 10 5*'s; 45 4*'s; 34 3*; 5 2*'s; avg *'s=3.38
Click to expand...

I think your numbers are off, bro. I didn't crunch them to verify, but how is it possible that the LOWEST total for a single year is 3.39.... but the average for the 4 year total is 3.38???

Most of them look wrong. Just saying. I agree with your point, but the numbers don't seem to add up. Florida's average should be at least 3.5/3.6-ish according to your #s.
 
#592
#592
sjt18 said:
You should be impressed with at least that one ranking... they agree with Kiffin about Worley.

If ESPN is bad, Scout has always been sporadic, and Rivals has lost/cut staff that hurt their product... then rankings mean even less this year than normal, right?
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I'm not impressed with any of ESPN's rankings because they suck at it. Say what you want about Rivals but they will never suck as bad as ESPN does.
 
#593
#593
From an outsidrs perspective I said early that Tennessee would struggle to get a top 20 class and there was derisiveness.

UT is going on its 3rd coach in 3 years so it no secret that teams are negatively recruiting that aspect. You also have hostessgate re: Corey Miller and the armed Robbery, Kiffen escapades, and so and so forth.

A staff needs to demonstrate the ability to pick out hidden gems. The Jury is out so far on Dooley.

However for UT standards this class doesn't look like one you'd expect from a school richard in tradition with the 2nd largest stadium in CFB.

No team in the decade of 2000s won a national title with recruiting classes outside the top 10 save for Alabama last year (#12).

Stars do matter even if the correlation isn't 100% or even 75%
 
#594
#594
Montrell Hardy said:
I agree with everything you said. People can believe whatever they want right now and make any kind of excuses they feel necessary. The bottom line is as of right now with 40% of the class in the fold this is a Vanderbilt / Kentucky type of recruiting class.
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SADLY:blink:....THIS!!!!
 
#596
#596
Sabanocchio said:
But the caliber of players we have recruited up to this point is very disappointing. Some of these guys will undoubtedly end up All-SEC type players, but your odds are much better with better rated talent.

I understand it's a process, but if Kiffin was able to convince high-profile kids to come to UT then we already know it is possible. Unless this recruiting class takes a real turn, it appears that we will be forced to rely on under-vauled players to build our future team upon and please do not delude yourself, that will make it nigh impossible to compete with the Floridas and Alabamas.

This is not an evaluation of our coaching or recruiting abilities, merely a sobering examination of where we are as a program right now.
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Los astros!!!! Los astros!!!:)
 
#597
#597
Please tell me, how many 4-5 star recruits have worked out well for us lately?

What did these players accomplish?

LaMarcus Coker
Demetrius Morely
Brent Vinson
Lennon Creer
Chris Donald
BJ Coleman
Kenny O'Neal
Ahmad Paige
Darris Sawtelle
Aaron Douglas
Bryce Brown
Darren Myles
Nu'keese Richardson

And I'm sure there are others I am forgetting that were complete busts or quit the team. All of the above were 4-5 star recruits that we all had high hopes for.

Personally, I would rather have a 2-3 star recruit who would give his heart and soul for Tennessee (like Nick Reveiz) than a 4-5 star prima dona/softy who cares nothing about the university.

I am not saying this to blindly jump on the Dooley bandwagon either. I'm saying this based on what little success UT has had with 4-5 star recruits the past 5 years.
 
#598
#598
Personally I would rather see a 4-5 start recruit who would give his heart and soul for UT (like Jacques Smith or Corey Miller) than a 2-3 star.....I'm just saying....
 
#599
#599
Demonte' Bolden
Wes Brown
Jonathan Crompton
Montario Hardesty
Rico McCoy
Chris Scott
Lucas Taylor
Jacques McClendon
Eric Berry
Gerald Jones
Chris Walker
Janzen Jackson
JerQuari Schofield
Marsalis Teague

Oh look, it's pretty much every recent impact player we've had!
 
#600
#600
VolFanNC09 said:
Personally I would rather see a 4-5 start recruit who would give his heart and soul for UT (like Jacques Smith or Corey Miller) than a 2-3 star.....I'm just saying....
Click to expand...

Of course, but if we had the choice between Nick Reveiz and Kenny O'Neal, who would you take?
 
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